The Koran and the Book of Mormons

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hamba2han said:
Common sense would tell us that it is just about impossible for someone to either copy or to get inspiration from an existing material and yet produce something which is immensely superior to the material which had inspired him… especially when it concerns a book which is as voluminous in it’s contents as the Qur’an.
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Okay, Muslims, if this is the case, if this is your argument for why Mohammed did not take any part of the Koran from other writings or books, than please explain how the Book of Mormons came about.
 
Many authors are inspired to write great works after being inspired by other books. Thousands of people have shown that it isn’t difficult to write books. Muhammad did nothing special. So what if he wrote a book. What miracles did he perform? What good has his religion gave the world? This is how we will know if he was from God. The Muslims say the Quran is a miracle. I say it’s simply a book.
 
Maybe you ought ot ask Mormons how the Book of Mormon came about, because I surely have no clue whatsoever regarding anything of Mormon mythology.

For me, I believe that Muhammad was a prophet because of the Qur’an–because I read it, and in my own estimation after reading it, reflecting on it, and praying about it, I found in myself an unwavering belief that the Qur’an is without a doubt revealed by the Lord of the Worlds, by the Almighty God.

Does it mean that everyone who claims he has revelation was telling the truth? Definitely not. But in the case of the Qur’an, it is a miracle itself to me. An everlasting miracle.

The second poster asked about miracles of Muhammad–he performed some, that’s for sure, but there’s a problem: you can’t witness them. No more than you can witness Jesus healing the blind or raising the dead. Those miracles are only hearsay. But the Qur’an is more than a grapevine miracle, you can witness for yourself and decide if it is revelation from God, or instead whatever particular theory floats your boat.
 
Sister_Amy said:
For me, I believe that Muhammad was a prophet because of the Qur’an–because I read it, and in my own estimation after reading it, reflecting on it, and praying about it, I found in myself an unwavering belief that the Qur’an is without a doubt revealed by the Lord of the Worlds, by the Almighty God.
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Salaam/peace
Eucharisted said:
…Mohammed did not take any part of the Koran from other writings or books…
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If u see anything similar in both OT & NT , then will u say that Jesus (p) copied from OT ?

Muslims believe all holy books came from one source : God Almighty . God taught us how to worship Him , God described what happened in the past , what will happen in the future etc etc.
 
Common sense would tell us that it is just about impossible for someone to either copy or to get inspiration from an existing material and yet produce something which is immensely superior to the material which had inspired him… especially when it concerns a book which is as voluminous in it’s contents as the Qur’an.
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As a novel writer myself, I can assure you that this is false.

For starters, I think Tolkien would be a good example. Yes, he was influenced by many short stories and epics, such as Beowulf and the (much shorter) works of George MacDonald. But none of these can compare to the vastness and complexity of what he has written. All those inspirations add up, and can add up to something far superior to them all.
 
Muslim_Woman said:
If u see anything similar in both OT & NT , then will u say that Jesus (p) copied from OT ?
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Congratulation! For a long I do not agree with what you have to say but here you are just spot on.

Sure, Jesus copied from the OT. He referrenced the OT, he was the was the OT came true.

For dramatic effect I continue with this - We can say he was prophecized in the OT; he was whom the OT waited and longed for; he came straight from the OT; he was OT made flesh.

👋 :dancing: :extrahappy: :bounce: :harp: :highprayer:
 
Sister_Amy said:
For me, I believe that Muhammad was a prophet because of the Qur’an–because I read it, and in my own estimation after reading it, reflecting on it, and praying about it, I found in myself an unwavering belief that the Qur’an is without a doubt revealed by the Lord of the Worlds, by the Almighty God.

Does it mean that everyone who claims he has revelation was telling the truth? Definitely not. But in the case of the Qur’an, it is a miracle itself to me. An everlasting miracle.
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You have instantaneously two competitors now - the Bible and the Book of Mormon, because their adherents say exactly what you have said.

You are being subjective and your belief is based on a matter of faith. There is nothing wrong with that and which applies to us also. However I often hear Muslims chide us for believing the Trinity as a matter of faith since we cannot understand it totally. That’s beside the point. Anyway, being subjective hardly prove anything.

You prove it better if you can show us that Mohammad, the one who brought the Quran was fit to be a prophet. I think he was not. He was a clown compared to Jesus. But that was how we see it with the information available. But what about you, was he fit to be a prophet?
 
Callin said:
As a novel writer myself, I can assure you that this is false.

For starters, I think Tolkien would be a good example. Yes, he was influenced by many short stories and epics, such as Beowulf and the (much shorter) works of George MacDonald. But none of these can compare to the vastness and complexity of what he has written. All those inspirations add up, and can add up to something far superior to them all.
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With all due respect to Tolkien, there are however significant differences here.

Firstly, it is the Qur’an which is the proof of the Prophethood of Muhammad (pbuh)… NOT the other way around.

Secondly, the Qur’an itself is the proof that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) CANNOT be the author of the Qur’an.
 
Hamba2han, Mormons claim the same. They tell you their book is a proof that Smith was a prophet and like you, they challenge anyone of proving otherwise, and when proven, they reject. isn’t it what you do?

The minimum Allah could do for His masterpiece is to be coherent, not haphasardly according to suras length.
 
Reuben_J said:
You have instantaneously two competitors now - the Bible and the Book of Mormon, because their adherents say exactly what you have said.

You are being subjective and your belief is based on a matter of faith. There is nothing wrong with that and which applies to us also. However I often hear Muslims chide us for believing the Trinity as a matter of faith since we cannot understand it totally. That’s beside the point. Anyway, being subjective hardly prove anything.

You prove it better if you can show us that Mohammad, the one who brought the Quran was fit to be a prophet. I think he was not. He was a clown compared to Jesus. But that was how we see it with the information available. But what about you, was he fit to be a prophet?
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Of course I’m being subjective. Just like you.

But my faith in the Qur’an is unshakable–not only that it’s truth but that it’s final and that it’s preserved. I see it as fulfillment of prophecy, a miracle in its own right.

And I don’t feel the need to mock anyone else’s beliefs because of it.
 
Muslims Vs. Mormons?

This should be interesting. 🍿

With love and grace,
_[Samuel]
 
hamba2han said:
With all due respect to Tolkien, there are however significant differences here.

Firstly, it is the Qur’an which is the proof of the Prophethood of Muhammad (pbuh)… NOT the other way around.

Secondly, the Qur’an itself is the proof that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) CANNOT be the author of the Qur’an.
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I don’t understand your claim, nor do I see how Muhammad’s particular instance is relevant at all to a human’s general ability to create things.

You said “Common sense would tell us that it is just about impossible for someone to either copy or to get inspiration from an existing material and yet produce something which is immensely superior to the material which had inspired him…”

I disagree, and that disagreement has nothing to do with Muhammad’s particular instance.

I gave Tolkien as one example of someone who got inspiration from existing material and produced something immensely superior, showing it’s not as impossible as you claim. But why limit the examples to literature only? History is full of people who invented things much better than the other things they were exposed to. Radio, television, etc. If your claim was true, the world would not have such things.

So, in short, common sense says that people do have the ability to create things far superior to those to which they were exposed. Muhammad was a person, so this pertains to him as well.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Of course I’m being subjective. Just like you.

But my faith in the Qur’an is unshakable–not only that it’s truth but that it’s final and that it’s preserved. I see it as fulfillment of prophecy, a miracle in its own right.

And I don’t feel the need to mock anyone else’s beliefs because of it.
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Please point out where did I mock your belief?

Maybe I should not use the word clown on Mohammad but what else can I do to describe the differences between Jesus and Mohammad? I did not call Mohammad clown per se, I only said he was a clown compared to Jesus and that is my true assesment knowing how different Jesus was vis-a-vis Mohammad.

I know this is the difficulty here - to find appropriate politically correct word. I wish I could and most of the time try to do so but my command of language is rather limited to sufficiently express myself. I am sorry then to express that part of my feeling here.
 
So is it alright to say the that the criteria for a miracle cannot be the subjective assessment of one’s mind?

You can say the Quran is a miracle because of its beauty but it is not a miracle per se. It is like saying, ’ Sister Amy, you are so beautiful. You are a miracle’, a miracle to describe how beautiful you are. 🙂

Peace.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Of course I’m being subjective. Just like you.

But my faith in the Qur’an is unshakable–not only that it’s truth but that it’s final and that it’s preserved. I see it as fulfillment of prophecy, a miracle in its own right.

And I don’t feel the need to mock anyone else’s beliefs because of it.
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So basically, you believe the Qur’an is a true revelation because you “feel” like it is and you get warm-and-fuzzies when you read it??
 
Reuben_J said:
So is it alright to say the that the criteria for a miracle cannot be the subjective assessment of one’s mind?

You can say the Quran is a miracle because of its beauty but it is not a miracle per se. It is like saying, ’ Sister Amy, you are so beautiful. You are a miracle’, a miracle to describe how beautiful you are. 🙂

Peace.
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You are too kind. Is this to make up for the ‘clown’ comment?

Let me tell you something about what I believe. Guidance is from Allah. That’s what I believe. That Allah can turn someone’s heart towards Islam as easily as He can turn it away from Islam. For someone whose heart is turned towards Islam, the Qur’an is an obvious miracle. For someone whose heart is turned away from Islam, he will always view the Qur’an with animosity and never with faith–possibly, never as a miracle. Or rather, he’ll refuse to acknowledge the miraculous qualities of it. For I believe that not only does Allah guide people with the Qur’an, but He also misguides people with it. Meaning precisely because of it’s miraculous nature (what I believe), people are turned away from it because they refuse to believe it.

That being the case, I am talking to two people–those who are open to guidance (from Allah, not from me), and those who aren’t. Obviously those who aren’t open will refuse the miraculous nature of the Qur’an whether they consider their objections to be objective or subjective.

So it doesn’t matter to me if I present myself only subjectively. I asked God for guidance, and believe He guided me. I see the Qur’an as a perfect miracle. And I don’t expect anyone to see that unless he is being guided by Allah. So really does it do me much good to try to argue that it is a miracle, when I know you’re not going to believe me anyway?
 
Sister_Amy said:
You are too kind. Is this to make up for the ‘clown’ comment?

Let me tell you something about what I believe. Guidance is from Allah. That’s what I believe. That Allah can turn someone’s heart towards Islam as easily as He can turn it away from Islam. For someone whose heart is turned towards Islam, the Qur’an is an obvious miracle. For someone whose heart is turned away from Islam, he will always view the Qur’an with animosity and never with faith–possibly, never as a miracle. Or rather, he’ll refuse to acknowledge the miraculous qualities of it. For I believe that not only does Allah guide people with the Qur’an, but He also misguides people with it. Meaning precisely because of it’s miraculous nature (what I believe), people are turned away from it because they refuse to believe it.

That being the case, I am talking to two people–those who are open to guidance (from Allah, not from me), and those who aren’t. Obviously those who aren’t open will refuse the miraculous nature of the Qur’an whether they consider their objections to be objective or subjective.

So it doesn’t matter to me if I present myself only subjectively. I asked God for guidance, and believe He guided me. I see the Qur’an as a perfect miracle. And I don’t expect anyone to see that unless he is being guided by Allah. So really does it do me much good to try to argue that it is a miracle, when I know you’re not going to believe me anyway?
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Thanks for sharing your thought. I admire people who are zealous and faithful in their faith and I can see that in you. 👍

If you see the Quran as a perfect miracle, and I think this is what most Muslims mean, I have no problem with it.

We disagree it is a miracle per se as has been argued, like Jesus raising and healing the sick are miracles.

I see the Bible as an awesome miracle. There is nothing in the world that can compare to it in its wisdom and beauty. Every verse there carries with it untold wisdom and power. But that’s how I see and experience it after knowing it and being transformed by it in my own personal life.
 
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