The Lamb of God and England !?

[Middleman]

The part of Blake’s poem to which you refer draws on an old legend from the Cornwall and Somerset areas of England, which says that Christ came to England as a youth with Joseph of Arimathea. It is said that he was engaged in the tin trade which is known to have existed between Cornwall and the Roman Empire.

While it is certainly unlikely that Christ came to England - I personally think it is no more than a fanciful legend - it is nonetheless possible. We know for a fact that the Roman Empire eventually extended as far as Northern England, but even at the time of Christ there were strong trade links between Southern England and the rest of the Empire.

I doubt that Blake gave much credence to the legend either, but using the image of the pure Lamb of God on England’s “mountains green” and “pleasant pastures” in contrast to images of the growing industrialization of Blake’s time (“those dark Satanic mills”) made for a very effective poem. Of course industrialization and pollution were important issues during Blake’s time - Charles Dickens frequently wrote about the negative effect that industry was having on the people and the environment. Dickens and Blake (& others too) thought it was disgraceful that the “powers that be” could allow such horrific damage to the countryside and people all in the name of progress. Little has changed evidently…

Well said. I love the song and the poem it was based on. It’s an idyllic vision. Blake was a follower of Swedenborg, who was a Swedish visionary of his time.

 

[NPC]

Well said. I love the song and the poem it was based on. It’s an idyllic vision. Blake was a follower of Swedenborg, who was a Swedish visionary of his time.

Thanks, Middleman! I love Parry’s setting of Jerusalem - it’s very emotive and suits the words well… I have it in my hymnal and sometimes I play it at the piano because it is such a beautiful tune. As you can imagine, however, it wouldn’t go down well in an Irish church though

 

[MagnumMysterium]

We are a set of islands steeped in mystery and legend.

‘Jerusalem’ has become a sort of second national anthem for us.

youtube.com/watch?v=iCpzEtlM4ZM

See link for the one night in the year where we really come over all patriotic; join hands, wave flags, and sing our hearts out.

 

[Middleman]

Thanks, Middleman! I love Parry’s setting of Jerusalem - it’s very emotive and suits the words well… I have it in my hymnal and sometimes I play it at the piano because it is such a beautiful tune. As you can imagine, however, it wouldn’t go down well in an Irish church though

Nevertheless, the pastoral image of an English utopia is beautiful and inspiring. I’m English myself, for the most part.

 

[NPC]

Nevertheless, the pastoral image of an English utopia is beautiful and inspiring. I’m English myself, for the most part.

Without a doubt England produced some very fine pastoral poets - Herrick, Milton, Marlowe, Pope… But the marriage of Blakes poem and Parry’s music makes “Jerusalem” the icing on the cake!

 

[Middleman]

Without a doubt England produced some very fine pastoral poets - Herrick, Milton, Marlowe, Pope… But the marriage of Blakes poem and Parry’s music makes “Jerusalem” the icing on the cake!

I agree.

 

[NHInsider]

twinc;5938728:

Didn’t you read my profile. I’m British and lived in England until 1985. Never in my entire life did any person say they believed Jesus and Mary lived in England.

Tell us then what the Church says about this. After all the Catholic Church is the authority on Christ or do you believe myths have more credibility than the Church or do you think the Church is suppressing this information???

I don’t know that the Church has made *any *authoritative statement on the hidden years of Jesus’ life - if you know of such a statement, would you share it, please?

 

[NPC]

thistle;5939155:

I don’t know that the Church has made *any *

authoritative statement on the hidden years of Jesus’ life - if you know of such a statement, would you share it, please?

As I said earlier, I don’t personally believe that Christ visited the south of England. However, if there’s no evidence either way, then twinc is as entitled to hold one opinion as any of us are, even if the possibility of Christ coming to England seems implausable.

Nonetheless, unlikely as such a journey might seem, it is by no means impossible given the links with the Roman Empire which England had at the time. Scripture obviously does not record that Jesus travelled so extensively, but we know that there’s a lot that Scripture doesn’t say - especially about His life before public ministry. Scripture doesn’t say much about Joseph of Arimathea either - it wasn’t to the point of the Gospels to give his life story - however there is a strong tradition that he gained his wealth through the tin trade. If this is true, then it is entirely possible that he had links with, and possibly visited, England. Another strong tradition regarding Joseph is that he was a relative of Christ - possibly an uncle of Mary.

Again, I reiterate that I don’t place much credence on the story… but, at the end of the day, whatever side of the argument you come down upon, it’s not really of any consequences…

 

[Thing]

Not easy to get people to go down to work in a tin mine especially in a ‘green and plesant land’. You might ‘say’ that God went to Wales or Cornwall and went to work in the mines; same as old, now dissused, coal mines here have a statue of Our Lady just above the entrance for the miners to see on their way into the black.

 

[FightingFat]

Are you insane? Jesus did NOT set foot in England. How can anyone be so stupid as to believe something like that?

Let me guess again. You also believe Jesus married Mary Magdalene due to circumstantial evidence.

Oh come on! It is a lovely idea! Joseph of Aramathea was a merchant and took Jesus on his travels to England–which was a rich source of metals at that time. It is possible (just) and it’s a great hymn!!

youtube.com/watch?v=aFrVrBQh_50

youtube.com/watch?v=1_pZnHLwRsM

 

[thistle]

thistle;5939155:

I don’t know that the Church has made *any *

authoritative statement on the hidden years of Jesus’ life - if you know of such a statement, would you share it, please?

Neither the Church (formally or informally) nor any of the early Church Fathers nor Tradition or tradition says anything about Jesus, Mary, or Joseph of Arimethea being in England.
For me the total silence is authoritative.
Jesus, Mary and Joseph of Arimathea living in England is not just improbable, its ridiculous.

 

[Thing]

Pontius the Pilot continued on to Cornwall after the flight into Egypt.

 

[twinc]

NHInsider;5940180:

Neither the Church (formally or informally) nor any of the early Church Fathers nor Tradition or tradition says anything about Jesus, Mary, or Joseph of Arimethea being in England.
For me the total silence is authoritative.
Jesus, Mary and Joseph of Arimathea living in England is not just improbable, its ridiculous.

The joke once was if its not in the Bible,have nothing to do with it -there are doubts,it seems,as to whether Mary died even here on his forum,when of course there should or should not be any doubt - surely such a personage would surely have been closely followed and watched and guarded as suggested and every word or movement closely monitored and recorded - could it just possibly be that that which seems preposterous was and is due to the fact that she was guarded and protected from the outside hostile world which we would have expected had she come to any harm - I’m off on holiday,so meanwhile love one another - twinc

 

[Nicholas_II]

Are you insane? Jesus did NOT set foot in England. How can anyone be so stupid as to believe something like that?

.

thats just the English for ya.

 

[twinc]

thats just the English for ya.

keep away from that whisky and make certain of your facts - I’m only english under my scottish kilt or did you not know that many a good english heart beats beneath a scottish kilt -twinc

 

[FightingFat]

thats just the English for ya.

LOL!! :thumbsup:

 

[Spirithound]

For me the total silence is authoritative.

But silence can’t be authoritative because that would mean that Jesus just skipped 18 years of his life. Just woke up one morning 30 years old.

 

[Mintaka]

I’m all for local traditions, improbable or no. I may or may not belieeeeve them, but I’m not going to stomp on them.

I mean, how can you resist Martha ending up in Southern France, with a dragon that’s afraid to disobey her?

 

[thistle]

But silence can’t be authoritative because that would mean that Jesus just skipped 18 years of his life. Just woke up one morning 30 years old.

No. He simply did not go to England.

 

[Spirithound]

No. He simply did not go to England.

I didn’t say he went to England, I said silence is not authoritative.

If he went to England, and that didn’t make it into Scripture, fine.
If he stayed in Nazareth until he began his ministry, but that didn’t make it into Scripture, well, then it’s as equally unspectacular as his hypothetical visit to England.