The literary miracle of the Quran

  • Thread starter Thread starter preacher_of_christ
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I agree…this is pretty much as I remember it, too. Repetitive, often bland and ,at times, incoherent! For Muslims to claim it a literary masterpiece they need to first believe it is so they then read it as a masterpiece. Otherwise, a non believer would also be amazed at its beauty. I sure wasn’t nor were most others that are non believers!
 
I agree. Of course God bless Muslims but we should be truthful in what we think.

If others think it is a great piece of writing then OK, we can disagree and I am happy people find joy and enlightened knowledge from it.

God bless,
 
We are now 90 posts in and I still haven’t seen anyone show where or how the Quran is a literary masterpiece? If someone agrees that it is, could they post a verse or two that they think is exceptional? Is it in its poetry? An example would be nice to discuss.
I am hoping an expert or two on this topic will address it. I am quite interested and wonder how any uniqueness may relate to other styles. Otherwise I will ask an expert after Semester break.
 
Last edited:
Because it does not make for good reading, this means it is not good writing.
Egh… as much as I may hate the Quran, that’s a specious argument. There are plenty of bits in the Bible that are a slog to get through, and/or which use repetitive structures similar to the Quran’s “you say” to push their point across.

That doesn’t make the Bible bad writing, just not the most engaging all the time. The Book of Numbers was painful for me to get through XD
 
Last edited:
If others think it is a great piece of writing then OK, we can disagree and I am happy people find joy and enlightened knowledge from it.
Our opinions are unimportant. The standard for literary uniqueness belongs to literary critique , analysis and expert review.
 
Yes, but i am interested in it since much work has been done by people who know about the subject.
 
Again, its not merely about beauty.
See, you keep saying that, but it really is. I’ve never heard a single Muslim give any serious attempt at explaining it’s uniqueness except to cite it’s supposed inherent beauty. Every other attempt at explaining it boils down to non-specific statements that it’s somehow unique, with no actual uniqueness being identified.

You are not attempting to argue within the parameters they define.
 
The topic is about its inimitabillity and i cant see how the fact that I or you havent herd any evidence for it changes the fact that it is this argument that is offered and that it is this that we discuss.
 
The topic is about its inimitabillity and i cant see how the fact that I or you havent herd any evidence for it changes the fact that it is this argument that is offered and that it is this that we discuss.
But you can’t discuss an argument that provides no evidence. There is no substance to the argument to be discussed. They make an assertion, a baseless assertion, and one which is wholly unverifiable or unfalsifiable. It is a statement founded on their faith in the Quran, rather than any objective quality of the work.

There is no way to show that it could not have been produced by someone else, and there is no way to show that it could’t be produced by someone else. There is literally no way to prove or disprove it.
 
But you can’t discuss an argument that provides no evidence. There is no substance to the argument to be discussed . They make an assertion, a baseless assertion, and one which is wholly unverifiable or unfalsifiable. It is a statement founded on their faith in the Quran, rather than any objective quality of the work.

There is no way to show that it could not have been produced by someone else, and there is no way to show that it could’t be produced by someone else. There is literally no way to prove or disprove it.
Rather then stating the op has an argument of no evidence, lets see how and where and why this hypothesis that the koran is a literary unique text.

They do not, it seems , make assertions that are foundless. The statement is founded in knowledge of Arabic literature.

Lets start with this link.

Read it all, and follow up some of the references.

 
Last edited:
They call it a unique literary form because it doesn’t follow the standard rules of Arabic literature.

I know plenty of English speakers that don’t follow the rules of grammatical structure either, that doesn’t make their work unique or special.

Here’s one particular assertion:
The Qur’an achieves this unique literary form by fusing metrical and non-Metrical speech. This fusion of metrical and non-metrical composition is present throughout the whole of the Qur’an and cannot be found in any Arabic text, past or present.
So he used a unique form of writing that hadn’t been done before. Big whoop. There’s a coherent book that never once uses a word with the letter ‘e’. It is unique. It has never been done before, and I highly doubt it will ever be done again. That doesn’t mean it was inspired by God, it just means that the author was clever.

They also turn around in literally the next paragraph and admit that it is influenced by other forms of Arabic writing:
The Qur’an shares similar features with saj’, specifically in the early Meccan surahs, but it completely transcends many aspects of what defines saj’, hence western scholars describing the Qur’anic form as ‘Quranic saj’. What makes the Quran unique in this context is,
  • Greater tendency to mono-rhyme,
  • Inexact rhyme,
  • Greater range of saj’ phrases
  • Higher frequency of rhetorical features.
The only thing that supposedly sets it apart is that it places heightened emphasis on the specific characteristics of that writing style. In modern parlance, focusing on the inherent expectations of a given style, and using those characteristics in a unique way to produce a strong emphasis is a type of meta work, hardly uncommon or unique.

Reading that list, it just sounds like he did was was done before, but he did more of it, so for some reason that’s special…

Let’s see here:
Their reasoning is that in the Qur’an, the use of language is semantically orientated and its literary structure is distinct, whereas in saj’, conformity to style is a primary objective.
Once again, failure to conform to the grammatical norms of your chosen linguistic style can be seen as either a clever manipulation of the pre-existing rule set, or limitation based on lack of knowledge of that rule set. Nothing special about it.
The Qur’an is not poetry because the totality of each surah does not conform to any of the al-Bihar and in many places exhibits inexact and irregular rhyme.
This one’s my favorite. It’s not poetry because it doesn’t sound like a poem XD

All their points boil down to the same thing. It doesn’t follow the conventions of the literary styles it seems most influenced by. There is nothing special about that beyond whatever unique twist he purposefully or accidentally incorporated into his style. The only reason they treat it as special is because they already believe that Mohammad was special. To an outside observer, he just seems like a clever writer who was familiar enough with stylistic conventions to manipulate them. Certainly interesting, but nothing special.
 
Last edited:
If multiple people were gathered together to create the Quran, wouldn’t that explain various styles and not sticking to one particular style? Didn’t they almost lose the writings due to the wars and had to recompile the work?
 
If multiple people were gathered together to create the Quran, wouldn’t that explain various styles and not sticking to one particular style? Didn’t they almost lose the writings due to the wars and had to recompile the work?
Yeah. It’s been pretty well determined that Mohammad didn’t actually write the Quran, it’s the result of people “remembering what he said” after the fact. That would certainly explain the disjointed nature of the text.
 
Egh… as much as I may hate the Quran, that’s a specious argument. There are plenty of bits in the Bible that are a slog to get through, and/or which use repetitive structures similar to the Quran’s “you say” to push their point across.

That doesn’t make the Bible bad writing, just not the most engaging all the time. The Book of Numbers was painful for me to get through XD
Yes no doubt there are parts in the Bible that are hard to get through and not a literary masterpiece. When we are talking about bad writing we are usually talking about poor or inconsistent literary use and/or literary form. We can agree and disagree about what is good and bad writing and of course this is dependent on the genre and many other factors. If the underlying claim is that the writing of the Koran is so great that it speaks to a Divine origin then it would also make sense that there should be widespread recognition of this good writing. Obviously the Koran is lacking in widespread and universal support for this.

In my thinking, good writing is either engaging the reader or clear and concise in its conveyance of information, depending on the genre. Bad writing is not engaging the reader.

If as you say, some writings are not engaging, then to my mind that is a consequence of bad writing. This would especially speak against a book that God set aside to be the most important revelation to mankind.

If it were rewritten to be more engaging then to my mind it would be better writing. I accept if your definitions of good and bad writing are different.
 
Last edited:
See, you keep saying that, but it really is. I’ve never heard a single Muslim give any serious attempt at explaining it’s uniqueness except to cite it’s supposed inherent beauty. Every other attempt at explaining it boils down to non-specific statements that it’s somehow unique, with no actual uniqueness being identified.

You are not attempting to argue within the parameters they define.
I think that it can probably be claimed as unique because of what I said above about there not being an established well developed literary form of Arabic before the Koran was written. Because the Koran was the break through literary product of the Arabic language it gets to define the form and much of the spelling, phrases, sayings and style. I think all such break through documents that first define a literary language would expect to have some level of uniqueness. The King’s James Bible is said to have played a big part in English and many of the English phrases and sayings still exist in the English language from that break through translation from so long ago. None of this of course speaks of Divine origins.

In fact it would make sense that if God wanted to communicate with the world through the written word He would use an established literary language. Otherwise its intelligibility would have to be questioned.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top