The Mark of the Beast

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Sorry, I am talking about the one who was Jewish, and whose faith was Judaism. You must be talking about a Greek man.
The Lord Jesus Christ was Jewish too, what a coincidence.
Do you even read the Scriptures that prove that Christ is God? Something tells me you skip those verses. Your heart is hardened Mr Masasda, I pray you will seek the truth.
 
Do you believe the Messiah will reunite the 12 tribes of Israel?

michel
No, He will not. The Ten Tribes are gone for good. Read Psalms 78:67-70. From the time they were removed from existence by means of the Assyrians, there was a moratorium to join back to Judah automatically without conversion until Judah was exilied to Babylon for 70 years. Now, those who still hold unto them the nostalgia or romantic claim that they belong to any of those Tribes, they can join but only through conversion just like any of the Gentiles.
 
The Lord Jesus Christ was Jewish too, what a coincidence.
Do you even read the Scriptures that prove that Christ is God? Something tells me you skip those verses. Your heart is hardened Mr Masasda, I pray you will seek the truth.
Would you please pick up the Scriptures that Jesus used to handle and prove to me what you claim about Jesus, and I’ll leave Judaism to be a Catholic? Are you able of the same committment? No, you are not. Do you know why? Because according to Isaiah 8:20, there is no light in what you teach.
 
Would you please pick up the Scriptures that Jesus used to handle and prove to me what you claim about Jesus, and I’ll leave Judaism to be a Catholic? Are you able of the same committment? No, you are not. Do you know why? Because according to Isaiah 8:20, there is no light in what you teach.
I dont want you to be a catholic, just saved.
I gave you a link to the many Scriptures that show Christ is God, but you haven’t read them.
 
It’s so sad to see a Jewish person fighting against the truth in real life.
I know there are many that do, but to see it for myself, is very sad.
Your Messiah has already come and died and is risen again. Your heart is hardened, it is so sad. 😦
**It’s so sad to see a blind person who does not want to see!
Isaiah is so clear about the Messiah, that he mentions him by name. But the blind who does not want to see prefers to assume. You should tear Isaiah off your Bible.

I know I have told you before, but here’s again: If you believe that the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 is the Messiah, read Isaiah 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21; 45:4. Isaiah calls him Israel. And Moses calls him son of God by the same name of Israel. I hope God Himself will open your eyes.**
 
**It’s so sad to see a blind person who does not want to see!
Isaiah is so clear about the Messiah, that he mentions him by name. But the blind who does not want to see prefers to assume. You should tear Isaiah off your Bible.

I know I have told you before, but here’s again: If you believe that the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 is the Messiah, read Isaiah 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21; 45:4. Isaiah calls him Israel. And Moses calls him son of God by the same name of Israel. I hope God Himself will open your eyes.**
I know that Isaiah is so clear about the Messiah, so why will you not believe the one who Isaiah was talking about.
Isaiah 53 is one of my favorite chapters is the entire Bible. What a beautiful Saviour I have, who was wounded for MY transgressions and bruised for MY iniquities.
** ‘‘He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.’’ **
 
minkymurph;5112598:
As I understand it, all Covenants are part of one ‘Great’ Covenant;excuse the terminology; it’s my own termand all were necessary and all are part of God’s eternal plan for salvation.

God’s eternal plan for salvation is dual: The first is for personal salvation through obedience to the Law. (Psalm 119:93) And the second is universal salvation, pledged by the life of Israel. (Jer. 31:35-37)
To explain, the Christian belief is Christ was the reality of the Old Covenant. He said he came to fulfill the law which is did as the reality of the Passover Lamb, the once and for all sacrifice.

He came to fulfill for himself and to warn us all to do same forever. (Mat. 5:19) It means nothing indeed was abolished.

He is the reality of the Priesthood. Paul said the Law of Moses was a shadow of the things to come. Therefore, there is a unity between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.

Paul contradicted Jesus himself. To contradict is to go against, which means “anti.” If Jesus was Christ, you know what Paul was.

The Jewish nation did preserve the Law of God and keep it alive, they preserved Holy writings and passed on knowledge of the one true God for generations. What would the New Covenant mean to Christians had it not been for that?

The New Covenant is with the House of Israel and the House of Judah as one. Nothing to do with Christians. The New Covenant of the NT is something between Paul and Christians.

There were Jews who believed in Jesus and passed on the Christian faith. They were the first to believe in Jesus. I feel Christians owe a lot to faithful Jews and I believe this is what Paul is referring to in Hebrews 11.

There are 2.5 million Jews who are perishing for lack of knowledge. (Hosea 4:6)

Oops, it looks to me from your post here that I have angered you in some way; that was not my intention and I apologize if anything I said sounded insulting, I did not mean it in that way. However as you are Jewish and I am Catholic, we are obviously going to have differences of opinion and differences of interpretaions of the Old Testament, as you will with many others here.

I therefore have to ask why you started this thread and why post here? What do you hope to acheive? I entered into dialogue with you on this thread because I am a Religious Studies student, you are Jewish and I was hoping to educate myself in relation to your understanding of the Old Testament. I did not mean to be contentious in any way but I have my beliefs and I have no intention of changing my mind on any of those beliefs. I have not joined this thread with the expectation that anything I say will change your beliefs or with that intention. I am purely and simply interested in dialogue and educating myself in relation to the beliefs of others.

You sound very angry in your posts and as a result, I feel inclined to back off. This is not because I feel I cannot defend my beliefs or unwilling to enter into dialogue with persons of other denominations. It is because I have no desire to simply argue and as I said earlier, I’m not really sure why you started this thread. Are you saying that you believe Paul was the Anticrist? I say that because of your comment about Paul going against Christ. as far as I know, and I stand to be corrected, Jesus did not disagree with the religious teachings of the Pharasees, but he did not like the kind of people they were and did not want his followers to be like them. I don’t think you can say that Christians have nothing to do with God’s eternal plan for the salvation of the human race. Perhaps this is not what you meant when you said the house of Israel has nothing to do with Christians. Do you disagree with what I said? That the Jewish nation made the one true God known to everyone? Do you think they did not do this? Why do you think 2.5 million Jews are perishing for lack of knowledge? What does this statement mean? Who are these 2.5 million Jews?
 
Would you please pick up the Scriptures that Jesus used to handle and prove to me what you claim about Jesus, and I’ll leave Judaism to be a Catholic? Are you able of the same committment? No, you are not. Do you know why? Because according to Isaiah 8:20, there is no light in what you teach.
Isaiah 8:20 does not “prove” this poster wrong about anything:
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
I have been trying to understand from this thread what you are actually saying about Jesus. Are you saying He is not also God, and that He is “only” a Jew?

Also, your comments re Isaiah 53. You say this is not referring to Jesus. Can you elaborate, WHO DOES IT ACTUALLY REFER TO THEN?
 
I dont want you to be a catholic, just saved.
I gave you a link to the many Scriptures that show Christ is God, but you haven’t read them.
**I have read them all. That’s why I tested your teaching under Isaiah 8:20 and I didn’t find light in it. You just do not understand what is written in the many Scriptures you read, because you read them with preconceived notions to assume what the text does not say.

You want me to be saved? Saved from what? I am not lost. Read Isaiah 41:14 and 43:11. Especially 43:11. God is our only Redeemer and Savior. And there is no other. Do you think Isaiah was mistaken?

A man cannot be God in Judaism and I have told you more than several times. Jesus was a Jewish man and not Greek. There is no Greek Mythology in Judaism.

Ben**
 
Isaiah 8:20 does not “prove” this poster wrong about anything:

I have been trying to understand from this thread what you are actually saying about Jesus. Are you saying He is not also God, and that He is “only” a Jew?

Also, your comments re Isaiah 53. You say this is not referring to Jesus. Can you elaborate, WHO DOES IT ACTUALLY REFER TO THEN?
**Isaiah 8:20 speaks about the Law, which is the Torah, and the Testimony, which are the Prophets or the rest of the Tanach. If any claimant of the truth does not speak according to that light, it’s because there is no light in him or her. Clear now?

Regarding Isaiah 53, the Prophet is referring to the Suffering Servant, who is the Messiah. Then, so that no one needs to assume that he was Jesus, he mentions that Servant by name in Isaiah 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21; 45:4. And the name is not Jesus but Israel. Now, you have the answer to your question. The reference is to Israel, the Jewish People.

Regarding Jesus, you are right, he was only a Jew. A religious Jewish Rabbi. He could not be God because in Judaism there is no such a thing as Greek Mythology.**
 
Ben Masada;5114626:
Oops, it looks to me from your post here that I have angered you in some way; that was not my intention and I apologize if anything I said sounded insulting, I did not mean it in that way.

No, no. Don’t worry. You did not offend me. I know what is to be offended here in this forum.
I therefore have to ask why you started this thread and why post here?

Because of the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. And why I post it here, because this a section of the Forum for non-Catholic religions. In fact, I was in the Bible debate section and they transfered me to this section.

What do you hope to acheive?

What Isaiah wrote in 42:6. That Israel was given as light unto the Gentiles.

I entered into dialogue with you on this thread because I am a Religious Studies student, you are Jewish and I was hoping to educate myself in relation to your understanding of the Old Testament.

Very good! Let us start with the misnomer, Old Testament. There is no such a thing as Old Testament. This is an item from the antisemitic agenda of Paul in Galatians 4:21-31, which means Replacement Theology. The name is Tanach or Hebrew Scriptures.

I did not mean to be contentious in any way but I have my beliefs and I have no intention of changing my mind on any of those beliefs.

**Good for you! Although it tells me you don’t have a missionary spirit. Why are you on religious studies? **

I have not joined this thread with the expectation that anything I say will change your beliefs or with that intention. I am purely and simply interested in dialogue and educating myself in relation to the beliefs of others.

That’s okay. Things change as we progress.

This is not because I feel I cannot defend my beliefs or unwilling to enter into dialogue with persons of other denominations.

Are you sure?

Are you saying that you believe Paul was the Anticrist?

I am just trying to use logic based on your belief that Jesus was Christ. According to my beliefs, Christ is Israel, the Jewish People. You must know that Christ means anointed. And according to Habakkuk 3:13, Israel is the anointed People of God. So, any anti-Semite is an antichrist.

I say that because of your comment about Paul going against Christ.

Well, if Jesus said he did not come to abolish the Law and Paul said that he did abolish the Law, do we have to be genius to see Paul here contradicting Jesus? To contradict is to stand against. Against is the same as “anti.” If you believe Jesus was Christ, what else do you want me to say?

as far as I know, and I stand to be corrected,

Why do you stand correct? Is it based on preconceived notions?

Jesus did not disagree with the religious teachings of the Pharasees, but he did not like the kind of people they were and did not want his followers to be like them.

There was never any contension between Jesus and the Pharisees. The grudge with the Pharisees was with Paul, because the Pharisees never allowed him to build a church in Israeli soil.

Perhaps this is not what you meant when you said the house of Israel has nothing to do with Christians.

I said that the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31 was with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. You can check it out. And indeed it had nothing to do with Christians. The salvation of Mankind is connected with the existence of Israel, according to Genesis 8:21 and Jeremiah 31:35-37.

Do you disagree with what I said? That the Jewish nation made the one true God known to everyone?

No, I agree with you, but are you aware of how the Church has paid us back for that?

Why do you think 2.5 million Jews are perishing for lack of knowledge? What does this statement mean? Who are these 2.5 million Jews?

I have a record of about 2.5 million Jews who somehow have converted to Christianity by accepting Jesus as the one. They are perishing for lack of knowledge according to Hosea 4:6 because they do know the Scriptures, neither ours nor the Christian one.
 
**Isaiah 8:20 speaks about the Law, which is the Torah, and the Testimony, which are the Prophets or the rest of the Tanach. If any claimant of the truth does not speak according to that light, it’s because there is no light in him or her. Clear now?

Regarding Isaiah 53, the Prophet is referring to the Suffering Servant, who is the Messiah. Then, so that no one needs to assume that he was Jesus, he mentions that Servant by name in Isaiah 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21; 45:4. And the name is not Jesus but Israel. Now, you have the answer to your question. The reference is to Israel, the Jewish People.

Regarding Jesus, you are right, he was only a Jew. A religious Jewish Rabbi. He could not be God because in Judaism there is no such a thing as Greek Mythology.**
The truth is not in you and there is no light in you.
Read the new testament and you will see where the Lord Jesus Christ fullfilled so many prophecies. Read it with an open mind, dont think of it as greek mythology, if you do think of it like that, you are fighting against the Holy Spirit and his truth will not be revealed to you.
Ask God to open up your understanding when you read the Scriptures in the new testament, what have you got to lose?
If it’s not true (it is) God will show you it’s not and if it is (it is) God will show you it is true.
But trust God to show you, not your own intelect.
 
The truth is not in you and there is no light in you.
Read the new testament and you will see where the Lord Jesus Christ fullfilled so many prophecies. Read it with an open mind, dont think of it as greek mythology, if you do think of it like that, you are fighting against the Holy Spirit and his truth will not be revealed to you.
Ask God to open up your understanding when you read the Scriptures in the new testament, what have you got to lose?
If it’s not true (it is) God will show you it’s not and if it is (it is) God will show you it is true.
But trust God to show you, not your own intelect.
Why don’t you show me a prophecy that he fulfilled that only he could fulfill. Hey, do you know what is plagiarism? That’s what the writers of the gospels did, and then applied the prophecies to Jesus on an individual basis. Wake up to the truth of reality.
 
Why don’t you show me a prophecy that he fulfilled that only he could fulfill. Hey, do you know what is plagiarism? That’s what the writers of the gospels did, and then applied the prophecies to Jesus on an individual basis. Wake up to the truth of reality.
You can read them for yourself, they are obvious and it looks like you have. It looks like you have rejected Christ, I hope I’m wrong.
 
I know that Isaiah is so clear about the Messiah, so why will you not believe the one who Isaiah was talking about.
Isaiah 53 is one of my favorite chapters is the entire Bible. What a beautiful Saviour I have, who was wounded for MY transgressions and bruised for MY iniquities.
** ‘‘He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.’’ **
As I can see, you don’t read the quotations I put down to prove my point. If you believe that the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 is the Messiah, Isaiah identifies that Servant as Israel by name in Isaiah 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21; 45:4. And he does it so that you won’t have to assume that he is Jesus. But as I can see, it doesn’t help when the worst blind is the one who does not want to see.
 
You can read them for yourself, they are obvious and it looks like you have. It looks like you have rejected Christ, I hope I’m wrong.
Do you know the meaning of the word Christ? Anointed of the Lord. If you read Habakkuk 3:13, the anointed of the Lord is Israel, the Jewish People. Therefore, I don’t have to accept Christ; I am already part of Christ. Can I welcome you to the club? Anyways, days will come, Zechariah said, when Gentiles from all over the world will reach for the garment of the Jews, asking to join for having finally acknowledged that God is with us. That’s in Zechariah 8:23.
 
When you say that, “The Old Covenant was annulled and a New Covenant was established,” you are only promoting the policy of “Replacement Theology” of Paul in Galatians 4:21-31. And mind you that Replacement Theology has been classified as a kind of Antisemitism.
I’ve never said anything about replacement. The Abrahamic covenant both precedes and supercedes the Mosaic covenant that came after it. The New Covenant supercedes it as well. When the moral law is written on the heart, the bulk of the sacrificial and ceremonial rites end because they were there for a stiff-necked rebelious people. The Mosaic covenant involved a mediator and more than one party was responsible for fulfilling the terms of the covenant- God and Israel. The Abrahamic covenant was a unilateral arrangement where God alone swore an oath and assumed responsibility of blessing the world through Abraham’s offsping.

With the Davidic covenant, the Kingdom is an international empire stretching to the ends of the earth and embracing all nations and peoples. This is not replacement it is inclusion. You probably don’t agree, but this verse ultimately speaks to all people and not just diaspora Jews.

A psalm of the Korahites. A song. The LORD loves the city founded on holy mountains, Loves the gates of Zion more than any dwelling in Jacob. Glorious things are said of you, O city of God! Selah From Babylon and Egypt I count those who acknowledge the LORD. Philistia, Ethiopia, Tyre, of them it can be said: “This one was born there.” But of Zion it must be said: “They all were born here.” The Most High confirms this; the Lord notes in the register of the peoples: “This one was born here.” Selah So all sing in their festive dance: “Within you is my true home.” (Psalm 87)
 
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