The Mark of the Beast

[Ben_Masada]

Jesus told his Disciples to preach to ALL NATIONS, meaning everyone. If you feel He only spoke to Gentiles, perhaps it is because the Jews wouldn’t listen. They never obeyed or listened to God in the OT, never mind in the NT.

**Sorry, but I missed the word “not” when I quoted Matthew 10:5. It goes
thus: “Every time Jesus would send his disciples in a mission to preach his gospel, he would warn them NOT to go unto the Gentiles.” That’s what I mean by contempt to the Gentiles. **

 

[Ben_Masada]

When Pilate wrote "Jesus of Nazareth, KING of the Jews, it was no joke. He believed this even when he was sentencing Christ to death. There was doubt in Pilates heart but not totally. That is why when asked of him by the Jews why he would write that? Pilate’s words were “What I have written, is written”.

**Pilate apparent decisive answer was based on the second part for his reason to write that sign: As a deterrant to others with aspirations to be king in spite of Caesar. But the joke remains a joke because you and I know that Jesus was never a king. **

 

[sambos671]

**Pilate apparent decisive answer was based on the second part for his reason to write that sign: As a deterrant to others with aspirations to be king in spite of Caesar. But the joke remains a joke because you and I know that Jesus was never a king. **

Ben I don’t agree with you about anything with regard to the NT. However, here I would have to agree with you Pontius Pilato was not voicing his belief with regard to Jesus. Still it doesn’t detract that Jesus claimed to be God. Nor that the Sanhedrin convicted him of heresy for it.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

**Pilate apparent decisive answer was based on the second part for his reason to write that sign: As a deterrant to others with aspirations to be king in spite of Caesar. But the joke remains a joke because you and I know that Jesus was never a king. **

Where do you get that Pilate was “joking?” Who tells you these things?

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

**Pilate apparent decisive answer was based on the second part for his reason to write that sign: As a deterrant to others with aspirations to be king in spite of Caesar. But the joke remains a joke because you and I know that Jesus was never a king. **

Please do not say that we BOTH know that Jesus was never a King because He was a King and His Kingdom will reign forever. Please speak only for yourself.

 

[twb1621]

twb1621;5441690:

**What is this, revenge because you could not prove what you said that the disciples were called Christians first by the Pagans? The explanation you brought about Acts 11:26 does not fit your statement. Perhaps you thought I don’t know your own NT? Take a look at your post # 966. Here is what you wrote: **

"If you are referring to Paul in Antioch and the first time the followers of Jesus were referred to as Christians, that is when they were first called Christians by the Pagans."

No, Ben, Not revenge, quotes from your brother Jews who realized they only knew propaganda regarding Christianity. Oh did I say Pagans? , yup, that was what I referred to and it was the first place they were called Christians. I meant most of those who Started calling them Christians were of pagan beliefs or lack of beliefs. Understand?

Paul has been accused of intentionally distorting the teachings of Jesus in order to make Christianity more appealing to the gentiles. What information exists to prove or disprove this theory?

**Here is the information: Jesus himself declared that he did not come to abolish the Jewish laws. (Mat. 5:17) About 30 years later, Paul came and declared that the laws of commandments were abolished on the cross. (Ephe. 2:15) Who is lying here, Jesus or Paul? This is intentional distortion of the teachings of Jesus. **
Here again is the translation Ben,
**Ephesians - Chapter 2 **
13 But now in Christ Jesus, you that used to be so far off have been brought close, by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is the peace between us, and has made the two into one entity and broken down the barrier which used to keep them apart, by destroying in his own person the hostility, 15 that is, the Law of commandments with its decrees. His purpose in this was, by restoring peace, to create a single New Man out of the two of them, 16 and through the cross, to reconcile them both to God in one Body; in his own person he killed the hostility. 17 He came to bring the good news of peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 Through him, then, we both in the one Spirit have free access to the Father.

Ben, do you have a clue as to what this means? If not go over it a few more times.

It seems fair to presume that one cannot claim Jesus’ teachings were distorted without first knowing what Jesus taught. Do those who claim distortion demonstrate knowledge of Jesus’ teachings?

I have given you above what Jesus taught and how Paul distorted it. And regarding my knowledge of Jesus’ teachings, I challenge you to try me.

Your arguing with fellow Jews Ben, and as far as your “challenge” of your knowledge of the Gospel is concerned you blew that along time ago.

People who accuse Paul of creating a new religion usually say that Jesus never claimed to be the Messiah, nor did he claim to be the son of God. Many repeat that allegation without ever having read Jesus’ teachings. One need only read the first four books of the New Testament (not written by Paul) to see the invalidity of this objection.

**Those gospels were written more than 20 years after Paul was done with his writings and teaching about Jesus as Messiah, son of God, and that he had resurrected. What did you want them to write if not according to their master? **

you really need to check the accuracy of your resources, they are fictional to help you believe what you NEED to believe.

I think I am about done with you Ben, you are here to entertain yourself through ignorance and lack of knowledge and there are others who are honestly wishing to discuss issues here. Come back when you have something honest to offer. I’ll pray for you…

**I can see why you are done with me. First, because you have failed to prove a statement you affirmed with regards Acts 11:26 and second, if you can forgive my lack of modesty, you can’t meet me in the Scriptures that Jesus used to handle, and if I can further be so bold, neither in your own NT. **

I understand, Ben. you thought you bought a really good reference book of the Christian interpretations of the Gospel too, didn’t you? Maybe you can get a refund…

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Ben,
It is incorrect to regard St. Paul as some kind of spiritual “lone ranger”, on his own, with no particular ecclesiastical allegiance, since he was commissioned by Jesus himself as an apostle.
In his very conversion experience, Jesus informed Paul that he would be told what to do (Acts 9:6). He went to see St. Peter in Jerusalem for fifteen days in order to be confirmed in his calling (Gal. 1:18) and fourteen years later was commissioned by Peter, James, and John (Gal 2:1-2,9). He was also sent out by the church at Antioch (Acts 13:1-4), which was in contact with the church at Jerusalem Acts 11:19-27). Later on, Paul reported back to Antioch.

No denying this.

 

[heiscominginthe]

Ben Masada;5445099:

I understand, Ben. you thought you bought a really good reference book of the Christian interpretations of the Gospel too, didn’t you? Maybe you can get a refund…

To those who are born again, the Word of God is revealed to them through the Holy Spirit of God. To those who are not born again, God remains a mystery.

For a man must be born again to enter the kingdom of God.

Don’t be to hard on Ben, for I doubt he believes that Jesus Christ is the messiah. Do you Ben?

 

[twb1621]

twb1621;5450589:

To those who are born again, the Word of God is revealed to them through the Holy Spirit of God. To those who are not born again, God remains a mystery.

For a man must be born again to enter the kingdom of God.

Don’t be to hard on Ben, for I doubt he believes that Jesus Christ is the messiah. Do you Ben?

I know, but sometimes I understand how James and John felt when they wanted to call down lightening stricks against those who rejected Our Lord. My Bad…

 

[sambos671]

twb1621;5450589:

To those who are born again, the Word of God is revealed to them through the Holy Spirit of God. To those who are not born again, God remains a mystery.

For a man must be born again to enter the kingdom of God.

Don’t be to hard on Ben, for I doubt he believes that Jesus Christ is the messiah. Do you Ben?

Ben has mentioned previously that he believes Jews as a whole are their own messiah.

 

[twb1621]

Ben has mentioned previously that he believes Jews as a whole are their own messiah.

Yes your right.

 

[sambos671]

In my mind for the Jews to reject Jesus they must reject their Tanakh, toda raba. They must discount their Torah. And hold to the anti-Jesus rabbi -im who created many midrashic teachings contrary to the historical standard. Or the literal interpretation of their own books. They miss out on the very God who seperated them out from the peoples from Abraham to Moses. They miss out on this same Jesus who sat enthroned on Mt. Sinai with saphire at his feet while the 70 leaders of the tribe of Israel ate in his pressence.

Moses then took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, “This is the blood of the covenant that the LORD has made with you in accordance with all these words.”

9 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up 10 and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire, ** clear as the sky itself. 11 But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.

**
Its a shame.

If that doesn’t get Ben talking; I don’t know what will.

 

[jake23]

**In that case, I wonder why Christians don’t make of Paul the Mohammad of Chritianity and leave Jesus as the Jew that he was, with his Fatith which was Judaism.

Ben: **

Ben, showing by your words you seem to be verry insacure about yourself. Jesus was Jewish yes and practiced judaism which is some from God and some from man. The old testament is only a semble of the worlds need of Christ. It and the religion was a prophesy for the covenant of Jesus the Christ. For example:

The Old Testament

God Raises His Covenant Children
Jesus introduced the Sacrament of Holy Eucharist. It did not exist during the days of the Old Testament. However, our Father in heaven gradually prepared us to receive it. These Old Testament accounts describe pre-figurations of the Holy Eucharist.

Abel
The earliest shadow of the Sacrament of Christ’s Body and Blood was Abel, the younger son of Adam and Eve. Cain murdered the good shepherd Abel. The Lord told Cain, Gn 4:10 “The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to Me from the ground.” The Book of Hebrews reminds us of, Heb 12:24 “… [Christ’s] sprinkled Blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel.”

Melchizedek
Melchizedek pre-figured Christ. When Abram returned from his victory over Chedorlaomer, Gn 14:18 “Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was priest of God Most High …” to bless Abram, pre-figuring the bread and wine consecrated by a priest at Mass. The Book of Hebrews tells us, Heb 7:2 “[Melchizedek] is first, by translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then he is also king of Salem [shalom], that is, king of peace. He is without father or mother or genealogy, and has neither beginning nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God he continues a priest for ever.”

Moses
Moses, the first Israelite priest, read the Torah to all of the six hundred thousand Israelite people assembled at the foot of Mt. Sinai, and threw the blood of sacrificed oxen on the people, saying Ex 24:8 “Behold the blood of the covenant which the Lord has made with you.” Jesus said at the Last Supper, Mt 26:28 “This is my blood of the covenant.”
Ex 34:29 “When Moses came down from Mount Sinai, with the two tables of the testimony in his hand as he came down from the mountain … the skin of his face shone because he had been talking with God … he put a veil on his face.” Jesus comes to us veiled, under the appearance of bread and wine. We could not stand the superbrilliant light of His full glory compared to our own souls darkened by sin.

The Harvest
In ancient Israel, the Spring harvest consisted of grain or wheat. Bread has long been the symbol of the Spring harvest. The Autumn harvest was mostly grapes and olives. Grape wine and olive oil were symbols of the Autumn harvest. Bread and wine. God commanded, Lv 23:12-13 “You shall offer a male lamb a year old without blemish as a burnt offering to the Lord. And the cereal offering with it shall be two tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil … and the drink offering with it shall be of wine.” Priests anoint with oil. Torah unites bread and wine, and the priest, with the sacrifice of the lamb.

Tabernacle Sacrifice
Bread of the Presence
The Bread of the Presence, in the ancient Tabernacle and later in the Temple, 1 Kgs 7:48 prefigured Jesus in the Holy Eucharist.
In the Tabernacle God commanded Moses, Ex 25:8 “Let them make me a sanctuary, that I may dwell in their midst.” In the sanctuary, in the ark of the covenant, God told Moses, Ex 25:22 “There I will meet with you, and from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim that are upon the ark of the testimony, I will speak with you…” God added, Ex 25:30 “You shall set the bread of the Presence on the table before me always.” Jesus told us, Mt 28:20 “I am with you always.”
Abimelech the priest gave David this sacred bread. 1 Sam 21:6 “So the priest gave him the holy bread; for there was no bread there but the bread of the Presence.” Jesus taught us that it was for all His disciples. Mt 12:1 “At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the sabbath; his disciples were hungry, and they began to pluck ears of grain and to eat. … [Jesus] said to them, 'Have you not read what David did, when he was hungry, and those who who were with him: how he entered the house of God and ate the bread of the Presence … I tell you, something greater than the temple is here.”
Jesus showed us what was greater than the Temple. Lk 22:19 “He took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, ‘This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.’”

 

[sambos671]

I’m curious since Ben’s name translate son of Massada I wonder if he’s in favor of mass suicide that the Jews did to prevent being taken over by the Romans at the fortress of Massada. I do know IDF special Ops take an oath there never to let it fall again. But where does our Ben stand?

 

[jake23]

Ben, here is some more

Blood of the Lamb
During Moses’ time the priests sacrificed in the Tabernacle, a portable house of God in the wilderness. After Solomon built the First Temple, it became the place of sacrifice. The highest form of Hebrew worship was sacrifice, not prayer alone, just as the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the highest form of Catholic worship. A priest is one who offers sacrifice. The Catholic priest is the counterpart not of the rabbi, but of the ancient Jewish priest who offered bloody sacrifices. The deacon, who reads the Gospel, is the rabbi’s counterpart.
The Old Testament sacrifice of a lamb, as opposed to any other animal, was important. The lamb did not resist, run away, or even cry out. Isaiah had foretold that the Lamb of God would do the same, Is 53:7 “He was oppressed, and he was afflicted yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth.”
The Jewish priests, before sacrificing the lamb, always asked, “Do you love this lamb?” If the family didn’t love the lamb there would be no sacrifice. Jesus three times asked Peter, Jn 21:15 “Do you love Me?” Jesus allowed Peter to replace his triple denial with a triple affirmation that he did indeed love the Sacrificed Lamb.
The family would place the lamb into the hands of the priest. When we give something to God we place it in His hands. Jesus’ last words on the Cross were, Lk 23:46 “Father, into Thy hands I commit My spirit!”
The priest and the head of the family then prayed together that God would accept the blood of the innocent lamb for the sins of that family for the entire year, just as the Lamb of God shed His Blood to redeem the sins of all His human family. The Catholic priest says, “Pray, brethren, that our sacrifice may be acceptable to God, the almighty Father.”
The head of household then cut the lamb’s throat with a sharp bronze knife while the priest caught the lamb’s blood in a large bronze bowl. The priest then made seven complete trips around the altar, sprinkling the blood from the lamb on each of the four “horns.” Then he took the lamb’s body and placed it on the altar and started the ritual fire. With a big fire and a small lamb, the sacrifice was over quickly. The smoke rose from the altar. If the wind blew the smoke away and dispersed it, the priest told the family that its offer was rejected, and that it should repent and come back the following year. But if the smoke drifted upward, higher and higher until it disappeared from view, the priest told the family that God had accepted the sacrifice.
Before the great tabernacle sacrifice, Jewish priests washed their hands in a bronze laver, or basin. Ps 26:6 “I wash my hands in innocence, and go about Thy altar, O Lord.” Today the Catholic priest washes his hands saying inaudibly, Ps 51:2 “Lord, wash away my iniquity; cleanse me from my sin.”
The first priest attended at a great golden lampstand with seven oil lamps, called a menorah. It was dark in the tabernacle, and the menorah gave light.
The second priest attended at the table of showbread. God had commanded Lv 24:5 that the Jewish priests, from Aaron forward, place twelve loaves of bread on a golden table “before the Lord.” On each sabbath, the priests ate the bread which had been set in place on the preceding sabbath. This bread was to be eaten by the priests in a sacred place since it was Lv 24:9 “most holy” among the offerings to the Lord. God had said, Ex 23:18 “You shall not offer the blood of My sacrifice with leavened bread.” During the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass the Catholic priest consecrates unleavened bread on the altar which becomes Christ’s Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, and is consumed by the royal priesthood as the most holy offering in the New and Everlasting Covenant.
The third priest served at the altar of incense. It looked like a small altar of sacrifice, with the same four horns. On it was a bronze laver. The priest would take a red-hot burning ember from the fire in which the lamb had been sacrificed, put it in the basin, and pour some incense on it, that his prayers might have a fragrant scent and go straight up to God. On solemn occasions Catholics spread incense about the altar as an act of reverence and purification. The smoke rising to heaven represents our own desire to have our prayers ascend heavenward in God’s sight. Ps 141:2 “Let my prayer be counted as incense before Thee, and the lifting up of my hands as an evening sacrifice.”
God told Moses to place the Torah in the Ark of the Covenant, which in turn was placed within a tabernacle. God commanded, Ex 27:20 “You shall command the people of Israel that they bring to you pure beaten olive oil for the light, that a lamp may be set up to burn continually.” All was placed within the tabernacle. By night, there was always a fire over the tabernacle, Ex 40:38 This began the idea of an eternal lamp beside the Jewish tabernacle. A thousand years later the Temple lamp miraculously continued to shine for eight days with only one day’s supply of oil. Catholics continue this ancient Israelite tradition by placing a lighted candle beside the tabernacle in which the consecrated Hosts repose.

 

[jake23]

The rest of the last post for you Ben, i also have allot more of you would like!

In the center of the tabernacle was a room called the Holy of Holies. Once a year the cohen gadol, the high priest, alone would enter that room. In it was the Ark of the Covenant. Inside the ark were the two stone tablets with the Ten Commandments, a golden bowl of manna, and the five Torah scrolls. The Torah was a witness against the Israelites, Dt 31:26 but above it all was God’s solid gold mercy seat, with a crown and two cherubim kneeling in prayer. Above the mercy seat, between the two cherubim, was a brilliant light, the shining glory of God. Ex 25:22 “From above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim that are upon the ark of the testimony, I will speak with you.” When the priest saw that light he took a huge cup of blood and sprinkled it until it was empty. Jewish tradition holds that not one drop of the blood of sacrifice ever touched the mercy seat or the cherubim; it all went into the bright light of God’s glory. Jesus said, Jn 8:12 “I am the light of the world.” Jesus’ covenant family gave Him their imperfect sacrifices, and He gave them His perfect sacrifice.

 

[heiscominginthe]

heiscominginthe;5452118:

I know, but sometimes I understand how James and John felt when they wanted to call down lightening stricks against those who rejected Our Lord. My Bad…

Our enemy is always trying to make us do things that can be used against the faith.

Lol…Now, what we have to do is not let it affect us through our flesh.

Now there is a Godly anger which comes by way of the Holy Spirit. For example.

There was this man that worked as an outside contractor where I work and he once finding out that I was a believer, a christian, took it upon himself to badger and ridicule me. The things he was saying about our Lord was pure evil and I believe he had demons in him.

This one day I was alone waiting on the elavator and he rushed to get on with me. He started saying things about Jesus and I felt the Holy Spirit move in me with what I felt was Godly anger, at which time I rebuked this man in the name of Jesus. He flew back against the wall of the elevator and I left him shuttering in the corner as I exited. He never bothered me again.

So my point is we must be led of the Holy Spirit in all things. Avoid anger that comes by way of the flesh.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben I don’t agree with you about anything with regard to the NT. However, here I would have to agree with you Pontius Pilato was not voicing his belief with regard to Jesus. Still it doesn’t detract that Jesus claimed to be God. Nor that the Sanhedrin convicted him of heresy for it.

**Jesus was a Jewish man and not a Hellenistic Greek to claim to be God. And the Sanhedrin was not a playground for children to condemn a man as a heretic for claiming to be God without checking if he was well in his mind. This accusation against the Sanhedrin is all part of Church conspiracy. **

 

[Ben_Masada]

Where do you get that Pilate was “joking?” Who tells you these things?

To think is our trademark. Where we lose for you in faith, we gain in Reason.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Please do not say that we BOTH know that Jesus was never a King because He was a King and His Kingdom will reign forever. Please speak only for yourself.

You are right that I cannot speak for you, because you speak with the voice of faith. But I can speak for Jesus, who was a Jew and not a Catholic. We both speak with the voice of Reason.