The Masons

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What do you think about the character Hiram Abiff? When you did the play, what was that like?

Were you kind of weirded out by it?
If you’re talking about the first three degrees, they are the ‘weirdest’ for a candidate as you’re lead around by a cable (noose), your breast is exposed (no females allowed!), you’re blindfolded, and every once in a while you’re gently poked with something sharp. The Third degree is the most fanciful, but once you realize that you’re part of something from the 1700’s - it’s more fascinating than anything.

In the third degree, you play the role of Hiram Abiff - you don’t say anything, but what happens to Hiram is played out on yourself. Because Hiram won’t reveal the ‘secrets’ he meets a brutal end, and they way it’s played out in the lodge is very charming in an antiquated sort of way.

What really is fascinating is that there’s some very large and complicated speaking parts that are usually done by memory.

Without verifying it’s accuracy - this may (or may not) be of interest:

scripturecatholic.com/master_mason_degree.html
 
Any practicing catholic and knights of Columbus member should not be a mason because it is against cannon law and the Vatican.
My point was not to debate what the Vatican says or to argue the merits of the ban, but to just illustrate that there are Masons all over the US that hold dual memberships and unless you knew them personally as members they would simply be practicing Catholics in our midst. The same can be said for Catholics that are using artificial birth control or engaged in extra- and premarital sexual relations. The Church doesnt openly persecute them despite their overt contradiction in Church teachings so why does the Church, your Church, and my Church, expend so much effort to root out and alienate productive and contributing members of the Freemasons?

I attend mass every Sunday, Holy Day, and several weekday masses and I see Masons in there every single time. Are they violating Church edicts? Yes. The same as the person suffering after an abortion, the same as the woman taking birth control pills or getting her tubes tied, and the same as the K of C members buying condoms at the local drug store. I know for a fact that the parish council member that is an OB/GYN prescribes birth control and yet they serve the parish zealously.

I wont try and argue the merits of either other than to say that my tithing has never been returned and the local parish knows my affiliations. The parents of the Catholic student that received the lodge scholarship didnt return their check and we are quite proud that religion was a factor in the consideration. GPA, athletics, and financial need but not religion…
 
I attend mass every Sunday, Holy Day, and several weekday masses and I see Masons in there every single time. Are they violating Church edicts? Yes. The same as the person suffering after an abortion, the same as the woman taking birth control pills or getting her tubes tied, and the same as the K of C members buying condoms at the local drug store. I know for a fact that the parish council member that is an OB/GYN prescribes birth control and yet they serve the parish zealously.
Praying a Hail Mary for the conversion of the people mentioned in the above quote:
~ the Masons
~ those who have had an abortion and are in need of reconciliation and/or healing
~ women using artificial birth control
~ K of C members buying condoms
~ OB/GYN who prescribes birth control

… and now if someone will please pray for me
because guess what
I’m a sinner.

~~ the phoenix
 
My point was not to debate what the Vatican says or to argue the merits of the ban, but to just illustrate that there are Masons all over the US that hold dual memberships and unless you knew them personally as members they would simply be practicing Catholics in our midst.
ess, you obviously are beyond being just a Master Mason in blue lodge - I was wondering how high up you went in York or Scottish Rite, or both. It actually doesn’t take that long, if one’s committed and willing to pay for the gear, to rise to 32nd degree in the Scottish Rite. Maybe, you can help us understand if there are any problematic rituals for the Christian in the Masonic Temple or at the Masonic Altar. How far up have you gone and have you ever found any of the Masonic Lectures or oaths problematic, as a Catholic?
 
ess, you obviously are beyond being just a Master Mason in blue lodge - I was wondering how high up you went in York or Scottish Rite, or both. It actually doesn’t take that long, if one’s committed and willing to pay for the gear, to rise to 32nd degree in the Scottish Rite. Maybe, you can help us understand if there are any problematic rituals for the Christian in the Masonic Temple or at the Masonic Altar. How far up have you gone and have you ever found any of the Masonic Lectures or oaths problematic, as a Catholic?
For the record there is nothing higher than a master mason in a blue lodge, There are higher numbers but they are all predicated upon being a master mason in a blue lodge.

Sounds like you are the subject matter expert so I will let you answer the rhetorical question you posed. I am sure there are alot of readers eager to read your take as a mason.
 
Praying a Hail Mary for the conversion of the people mentioned in the above quote:
~ the Masons
~ those who have had an abortion and are in need of reconciliation and/or healing
~ women using artificial birth control
~ K of C members buying condoms
~ OB/GYN who prescribes birth control

… and now if someone will please pray for me
because guess what
I’m a sinner.

~~ the phoenix
Well said and alot of other people worth praying for including alot of good men and women serving in harms way ensuring we have the right to blog whatever we want.
 
For the record there is nothing higher than a master mason in a blue lodge, There are higher numbers but they are all predicated upon being a master mason in a blue lodge.

Sounds like you are the subject matter expert so I will let you answer the rhetorical question you posed. I am sure there are alot of readers eager to read your take as a mason.
Thanks for the courteous reply. I have no intention of becoming a mason, but am familiar enough with it, know personally people who will not even speak the omnific word for God “Jahbulon” from their lips even though they have been exalted into Royal Arch. Of course Master Mason is highest in Blue Lodge but I asked you as a fellow Catholic in all sincerity if you joined either Scottish Rite or York rite after Master Mason. You don’t wish to answer a fellow Catholic and instead answer sarcastically – fine, but your post just goes to show how a Masonic Catholic will go about treating a non-Masonic Catholic. The lodge comes first, or if it doesn’t a Masonic Catholic will take criticism of the Lodge and/or its rituals as a personal insult as you seem to have done with my honest question.

I’ll ask you, since you’re defending Masonry, have you been exalted into the Supreme Degree of the Holy Royal Arch? Did you join the Scottish rite, or have you remained strictly in Blue Lodge.Surely nothing to hide from your end if you wish to defend the Brotherhood.

You’re non-answer pretty well shows to me you have no problems with the oaths in blue lodge. So are all the penalties in the oaths then basically a joke about slit throats and all - good thing you take them on the Holy Bible then. I mean that’s why we have a Bible right so a grown man can get down on bended knee, blindfolded with a noose around his neck and a compass pointed at his bare chest in the Masonic Temple and bloody swear bloody oaths which apparently mean nothing. And a good thing then that you take an oath not to fool around with a brother Mason’s wife, daughter, or mother on the Holy Bible again which forbids all forms of adultery. How do you reconcile this with your Catholic faith? I’m sure all Masons’ wives would be as pleased with this ditty as a Mason would be if his wife joined a secret sorority and promised on the Holy Bible just not to fool around with the other members’ husbands, sons, or fathers. So much for the vows of Holy Matrimony.

Are the penalties sworn on the Holy Bible a joke? Because evidently that’s what the Bibles are for in Blue Lodge.

And do you really have such a problem telling what degree you have in Freemasonry.

Sheesh. Freemasonry before Christ or Christ before Freemasonry?
 
Sounds like you are the subject matter expert so I will let you answer the rhetorical question you posed. I am sure there are alot of readers eager to read your.
Well, O.K. you’re from Texas** ess1113a** I understand from your intro post onto CAF, and you have mentioned Blue Lodge. Let us then look at what your state’s, Grand Lodge of Texas, A.F. and A.M., Monitor of the Lodge: Monitorial Instructions in the Three Degrees of Symbolic Masonry (Grand Lodge of Texas, 1982), pp. xiii-xiv has to say about the First Three Masonic Degrees. I’m not speaking here: I am quoting from your own Masonic Monitor and will let the reader, Catholic or not decide for his/herself. Here are the words written in the Monitor of your own state’s Lodge on the three Craft degrees. You laughed at what I can possibly know about Freemasonry so let’s let the esteemed Masonic Brethren who put all that study into Freemasonry tell you and me what the ceremonies and teachings of the Blue Lodge represent:

“These [Masonic teachings were] practiced from remote ages, in the ancient temples of many nations. Such ceremonies and their correlated teachings have sometimes been referred to as the Mysteries of Masonry, with the same signification employed when one speaks of the ‘Mysteries of the Magi’, the ‘Mysteries of Osiris,’ the ‘Grecian Mysteries of Eleusis,’ and other kindred rites, practiced in the temples of initiation throughout the ancient world…
The presence in the modern Masonic system, of many of the emblems, symbols and allegories of the ancient Temples of Initiation, as well as certain rites performed therein, has persuaded the most learned among Masonic scholars to conclude that Masonry is of very ancient origin, and is, in some aspects, the modern successor of, and heir to, the sublime Mysteries of the Temple of Solomon, and of the the Temples of India, Chaldea, Egypt, Greece, and Rome, as well as the basic doctrines of the Essenes, Gnostics and other mystic Orders”

What a bunch of hokum but it’s dangerous hokem, as the vigor with which Masons defend the Brotherhood show.

Now, as above, in your own Lodge’s Writing I can see why it’s not big deal to use the Holy Gospels and the Bible to swear the oath for the Third Degree and the penalty: “binding myself, under no less penalty than that of having my body severed in two, my bowels taken from thence and burned to ashes, the ashes scattered before the four winds of heaven, that no remembrance might be had of so vile and wicked a wretch as I would be, should I ever, knowingly, violate this my Master Mason’s obligation. So help me God…”

First off why should God help you to honor such an anti-Christian oath and why bring the Holy Bible into the swearing of the oath into your non-Christian Temple. If the oath is a joke, then, ipso facto, the Holy Bible is a joke too in the Masonic Temple. But then again maybe the Holy Bible should be a joke or used as one in the Masonic Temple. After all, the people outside the Masonic Brotherhood are profane. And don’t tell me the Masonic author who chose the specific word “Profane” to speak about the non-Masonic world was clueless as to what it meant. And in any event, in the first three degrees of Freemasonry a substitute word is used for God to top it off, with God’s true Omnific name to be revealed elsewhere.

As per my post previous, whatever you may personally feel or any other Mason, the Oaths given in Craft Masonry are blasphemous and for the Christian initiate they use the Bible and therefore Jesus Christ for force. Why not just bloody use the Egyptian Book of the Dead for the oath and the penalties? After all, as your own Masonic Monitor states, the pagan mysteries of Osiris and the other Mediterranean cults among many, many other sublime Mystery cults (i.e. pagan) provide the foundation and are precursors to Craft Freemasonry. And again, I’m not the one making the claim, your own Texas Masonic Lodge is!
 
And as you can read about every day in the news, we enforce these penalties on a daily, if not hourly, basis. Dismembered bodies abound in and around every local lodge.

A symbolic penalty taken literally is not only ignorant but truly sad. I have only been a Mason for a decade or so and I am fairly certain that somebody somehow has told the uninitiated about the “secret” aspects of the lodge and yet their family hasnt reported the murder. I guess its sad that we dont enforce our own penalties but then again they were meant as symbols.

The Masonic lodge has never claimed to be Christian. I have sat in lodge with Muslims, Jews, and Native Americans. Asking, or rather demanding, that the Masons adhere to Christian standards isnt what Freemasonry is about. They havent pretended to be Christian and they clearly arent pretending to be a religion. If it wants to appeal to all mankind regardless of their religion then thats what it does. If anyone isnt attracted to Freemasonry because of this approach then you can remain ignorant of it.

Pocket Encyclopedia of Masonic Symbols, MSANA, 2006. Profane: Symbol of one not intitiated; comes from pro- without, and janum- a temple, one outside a temple. Does not mean blasphemous when used Masonically. The Craft’s reference to profane, or the profane, means only the individual or group is not a member or members.

I need to be totally honest, I dont defend Freemasonry. The order doesnt need defending by me or anyone else, in the same manner as it doesnt deserve ridicule by the “profane”. Try visiting a local lodge. Make it known that you arent looking to join but rather you want to clarify some issues. Dont hide your fervor behind a name on a forum. Go actively seek to correct the wrongs that you perceive. While you are at that endeavour, go visit the local Shrine Hospital, Scottish Rite Dyslexia Center, York Rite Vision Center, or local lodge when they award scholarships, and tell them how infinitely wrong they are with their efforts to ameliorate suffering. Please go and redirect the patients that pay no bills thanks to the philanthropic efforts of Freemasonry to an alternate hospital or service that you endorse. Better yet open your own wallet and pay for their care. Its better to light one candle than curse the darkness- Proverb.

Be the change that you want to see and I will leave you to your wanton ridicule as you leave me to my personal endeavours.
 
And as you can read about every day in the news, we enforce these penalties on a daily, if not hourly, basis. Dismembered bodies abound in and around every local lodge.

A symbolic penalty taken literally is not only ignorant but truly sad. I have only been a Mason for a decade or so and I am fairly certain that somebody somehow has told the uninitiated about the “secret” aspects of the lodge and yet their family hasnt reported the murder. I guess its sad that we dont enforce our own penalties but then again they were meant as symbols.

The Masonic lodge has never claimed to be Christian. I have sat in lodge with Muslims, Jews, and Native Americans. Asking, or rather demanding, that the Masons adhere to Christian standards isnt what Freemasonry is about. They havent pretended to be Christian and they clearly arent pretending to be a religion. If it wants to appeal to all mankind regardless of their religion then thats what it does. If anyone isnt attracted to Freemasonry because of this approach then you can remain ignorant of it.

Pocket Encyclopedia of Masonic Symbols, MSANA, 2006. Profane: Symbol of one not intitiated; comes from pro- without, and janum- a temple, one outside a temple. Does not mean blasphemous when used Masonically. The Craft’s reference to profane, or the profane, means only the individual or group is not a member or members.

I need to be totally honest, I dont defend Freemasonry. The order doesnt need defending by me or anyone else, in the same manner as it doesnt deserve ridicule by the “profane”. Try visiting a local lodge. Make it known that you arent looking to join but rather you want to clarify some issues. Dont hide your fervor behind a name on a forum. Go actively seek to correct the wrongs that you perceive. While you are at that endeavour, go visit the local Shrine Hospital, Scottish Rite Dyslexia Center, York Rite Vision Center, or local lodge when they award scholarships, and tell them how infinitely wrong they are with their efforts to ameliorate suffering. Please go and redirect the patients that pay no bills thanks to the philanthropic efforts of Freemasonry to an alternate hospital or service that you endorse. Better yet open your own wallet and pay for their care. Its better to light one candle than curse the darkness- Proverb.

Be the change that you want to see and I will leave you to your wanton ridicule as you leave me to my personal endeavours.
Freemasonry is a mockery of faith then…

Freemasonry has duplicated every religion in the world including and especially Catholicism. The Lodges represent Churches. The good ‘deeds’ that Masons do are meant to ‘out-do’ the Catholic Missions (which they don’t by a longshot) in order to discredit the Church.

…all this is meant to replace Catholicism with a religion that’s not quite a religion.
 
…and Kyiv and others here are only trying to help you, because that’s what good Catholics do for their brothers who are lost.

Excommunication is not meant to be a punishment, but rather a title to let you know that you’re lost. We want to help because we’re your family in Christ.
 
Freemasonry is a mockery of faith then…

Freemasonry has duplicated every religion in the world including and especially Catholicism. The Lodges represent Churches. The good ‘deeds’ that Masons do are meant to ‘out-do’ the Catholic Missions (which they don’t by a longshot) in order to discredit the Church.

…all this is meant to replace Catholicism with a religion that’s not quite a religion.
You have Freemasonry nailed as their motive and design. Everytime I stop and help someone on the side of the road change a tire it is designed to specifically out-do the Church.
What an amazing fantasy world you live in with traits of total paranoia.

Good luck in your fantasy world.
 
You have Freemasonry nailed as their motive and design. Everytime I stop and help someone on the side of the road change a tire it is designed to specifically out-do the Church.
What an amazing fantasy world you live in with traits of total paranoia.

Good luck in your fantasy world.
Yes, I’m the one living in a fantasy world…:rolleyes:

…while you’re the one being led around a group of men half naked by a noose. 😃
 
🙂
Yes, I’m the one living in a fantasy world…:rolleyes:

…while you’re the one being led around a group of men half naked by a noose. 😃
I feel fairly safe in saying that the Holy Church has more than enough problems at the moment to deal with the perceived threat from Freemasonry. Great way to avoid a losing topic.
 
A symbolic penalty taken literally is not only ignorant but truly sad. .
And it is even more sad to take an oath to a “symbolic” penalty to self-mutilation using the Holy Bible in the Masonic Temple which leaves the Bible as well then merely a “symbolic” book, but you wouldn’t seem to understand this. Neither the Bible nor Jesus Christ is some kind of joke to be used in non-Christian mystery cult rituals.

You’ve posted some 79 times now on this Catholic Forum and just about every post has to do with the vigorous defense of Freemasonry or related subjects. Some people join this Forum to learn about the Catholic faith, the Bible, Jesus Christ, but you evidently have joined to defend the Masonic Brotherhood and cast aspersions at other Catholics who don’t agree with you about the compatibility of Freemasonry with Catholicism.

Funny, you’re not outraged about your own Lodge’s Monitor and its authors’ explicit defense of pagan mystery cults in the Craft’s Degrees, but you get outraged by fellow Catholics who tell you using the Bible for symbolic oaths to torture is blasphemy. Oaths on the Bible are to be taken with the utmost seriousness, not for “symbolic” jokes.

In all of your posts here ess, have you defended the Church or Freemasonry more?
 
This is getting good with some new contributions, let’s be careful and continue to be kind.

I love the passion, remember passion for something dictates importance, meaning, intent.

We must remember we are on a Catholic website and there will be a lot of people who will mention the Catholic laws.

One of which is not to be a Mason. It’s not an opinion by the Church, it’s a rule.

When God’s rules are not followed (as every person is a sinner), we have Confession, counseling, penance, to help fill our hearts back up with God and get out of sin. Sometimes it takes a long time.

It would be nice to get the opinion of someone who used to be a Mason, but climbed out.

I would be careful using the sins of others to defend your own sins. Can you see that one at the Gate - ‘But God, at least I didn’t do…’

You don’t have to answer to people on a message board, you’ll have to answer to God. If you believe He began the Catholic Church, It’s rules would be some to follow very closely.

A Mason as a Catholic is the definition of Cafeteria Catholic. It would be a shame to lose your eternal life for a play. But then again, there must be something more to the play if it’s that important to God’s Church.

It’s really not that complicated - Faith, Family, Fellow Man.

Live your Faith with a passion first and you will see the light, you don’t need to enter a dark room to see light.
 
A Mason as a Catholic is the definition of Cafeteria Catholic. It would be a shame to lose your eternal life for a play.
Although your point is valid, we must not forget that any Catholic who becomes a Freemason faces Automatic Excommunication from the Holy Church.
 
Praying a Hail Mary for the conversion of the people mentioned in the above quote:
~ the Masons
~ those who have had an abortion and are in need of reconciliation and/or healing
~ women using artificial birth control
~ K of C members buying condoms
~ OB/GYN who prescribes birth control

… and now if someone will please pray for me
because guess what
I’m a sinner.

~~ the phoenix
Praying right along with you…

Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death.
Amen.
 
🙂

I feel fairly safe in saying that the Holy Church has more than enough problems at the moment to deal with the perceived threat from Freemasonry. Great way to avoid a losing topic.
I believe its more of a concern for the state of your soul…

Job 28:12
“But where shall wisdom be found?
And where is the place of understanding?"

The place of understanding certainly is not taking false oaths in the Masonic Lodge in the name of the false gods of the Egyptians and being led about by a noose.
 
This was an interesting read of someone who got out…

saintsalive.com/resourcelibrary/freemasonry/why-i-left-freemasonry

I assume with the source listed, I can give a little tease…

"When I was converted to Christ I had belonged to the Masonic Lodge in Adams, New York, about four years. During the struggle of conviction of sin through which I passed, I do not recollect that the question of Freemasonry ever occurred to my mind.

New Views of Lodgism
But soon after my conversion, the evening came for attendance upon the Lodge, and I went. They, of course, were aware that I had become a Christian and the Master called upon me to open the Lodge with prayer. I did so, and poured out my heart to the Lord for blessings upon the Lodge. I observed that it created considerable excitement. The evening passed away, and at the close of the Lodge I was asked to pray again. I did so, and retired much depressed in spirit. I soon found that I was completely converted from Freemasonry to Christ, and that I could have no fellowship with any of the proceedings of the Lodge. Its oaths appeared to me to be monstrously profane and barbarous. "

Source listed above.
Code:
Thought I'd add this other to the post, it was another interesting escape, as the writer calls it...

[mofachopper.de/index.php?How-I-left-Freemasonry](http://www.mofachopper.de/index.php?How-I-left-Freemasonry)
 
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