The Masons

[TEPO]

Police officers in the UK also don’t need to declare it…
telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6509916/Judges-no-longer-have-to-declare-Freemasonry.html

…it’s strange that to me that this dispute primarily revolved around government positions with the ut most influence on the general public.

I wonder if the same things go on in America.
I would imagine that our school system is also being influenced in the same way.

 

[ess1113a]

Thanks Ess,

It’s interesting. I guess now I’m curious, at what point does a Catholic who can’t claim ignorance to the church’s teaching on a subject, actually follow said teaching? This is why I see being in the group similar to any other temptation sin. We know the rules, and we break them anyway.

Above is an interesting point that we haven’t touched on much in this thread yet. That being one of the purposes to joining the group is for business favors.

Going through an interview process right now, I wonder if I have any competition from a mason, with hiring bosses being masons.

Again from my personal perspective:
I am sure that there are members that favor a Freemason over a non-Freemason if they were aware of the membership in the hiring process but I find that extremely unlikely.
Here is my personal belief. If I were an employer and I had two candidates with identical qualifications, education, experience, and training and one was a Freemason, I would probably hire the Mason. The same way I would probably hire a friend or relative in the same situation. Being a Mason does not outweigh qualifications, training, experience, and education. I would provide the same bias for a veteran.

Being a Mason will not, nor should it, get you the job and your membership will not outweigh experience and education. In todays economy anyone hiring an employee would be a total idiot to think that just because an applicant is a Mason will make him a better employee is ignorant, and thus hire him over a more qualified applicant isnt doing the best thing for his business.

I have constanty and consistenly reminded perspective members and new members that if you are joining the lodge for business reasons then you will be sorely dissapointed. The lodge is not for business reasons or personal gain. It is about becoming a better person.

I need to also state that after reviewing the pervasive websites and misinformation prevalent about Freemasonry, flashing a Masonic ring or lapel pin may just work against you in an interview.

 

[ess1113a]

As Christlike as the gesture may seem, the Bishop seems to be offering an opinion here -which is a far stretch from an invitation… See the underlined text above.

…the bottom line is, from how I understand it, that any Catholic Freemason, just like any other excommunicated Catholic, may not receive any sacraments until the excommunication is lifted.

I really do not think its an invitation or encouragement in any way, shape, form, or fashion. I believe that its a clarification on policy and procedure.

 

[MJCamp]

Why is free masonry symbolism used in some pop videos and main stream artists like this one from Lady Gaga?
(Warning this video is evil and attacks God, please use caution) This may not be appropriate for this forum but thought someone might know how to answer

youtube.com/watch?v=Ym1FRTLNppw

 

[Brendan_64]

If I were an employer and I had two candidates with identical qualifications, education, experience, and training and one was a Freemason, I would probably hire the Mason. The same way I would probably hire a friend or relative in the same situation.

And that in itself shows that you would favour a Freemason. That despite the fact that you don’t know the person at all (unlike a friend or family member).

That would be breaking the law in the UK, but then again it would be almost impossible to prove.

What about granting contracts in business? If two rivals tendered for business with the same prcing and equivalent packages, and one was a Mason, I suppose you would grant the contract to the Mason?

Again illegal in the UK, but almost impossible to prove.

It’s so ingrained in Masons that they don’t actually think they are doing anything wrong by behaving like this, when they are actually discriminating against non-Masons in favour of someone who gives a ‘funny handshake’ to clinch a deal.

“Love your neighbour as yourself, but especially if he is a Mason.” An attitude that just isn’t compatible with the teachings of the Church.

 

[ess1113a]

And that in itself shows that you would favour a Freemason. That despite the fact that you don’t know the person at all (unlike a friend or family member).

That would be breaking the law in the UK, but then again it would be almost impossible to prove.

What about granting contracts in business? If two rivals tendered for business with the same prcing and equivalent packages, and one was a Mason, I suppose you would grant the contract to the Mason?

Again illegal in the UK, but almost impossible to prove.

It’s so ingrained in Masons that they don’t actually think they are doing anything wrong by behaving like this, when they are actually discriminating against non-Masons in favour of someone who gives a ‘funny handshake’ to clinch a deal.

“Love your neighbour as yourself, but especially if he is a Mason.” An attitude that just isn’t compatible with the teachings of the Church.

Very fair point.
Hypothetical situation:
You are an employer and business owner and you are filling a position. You have two candidates for the position with identical qualifications, and experience. Both candidates are responsible and very articulate, yet one is Catholic and the other is Muslim. You know this because one wears a Knights of Columbus pin and the other wears the crescent moon and star of the Muslim religion. All factors remaining equal, who do you personally hire and why?

 

[KyivAndrew]

There is no reason a judge who is a Freemason in any law system in North America or the UK or Europe should be allowed to be a judge, adjudicating matters between conflicting parties or sentencing convicts, and not, at least, have to declare being a Mason. The problem is obvious: one party, let’s say the plaintiff, before the judge, belongs to the profane non-Masonic world, while the defendant is clearly a Brother Mason. When the stakes are high, or if prison is involved, a Mason may well be tempted to use the Masonic Sign of Distress or ask “O Lord, my God, is there no help for the widow’s son?”. (Hiram Abiff was a “widow’s son”.)

And one can’t simply say, well yeah, but the guys I know from my lodge would never try that stunt and would laugh it off. For every four decent brethren, there always may be one who will try to extricate himself by all means, whether he be right or wrong, if the stakes are high. Judges, as well, are human beings prone to temptation and influence just like everyone else. The problem is that Masonry is a secret society - its members use the Bible to bind themselves not to God but to each other and to keep their secrets inviolate.

In the Third Degree, the Master Mason, the candidate promises:
“Further, that I will keep a worthy brother Master Mason’s secrets inviolable, when communicated to and received by me as such, murder and treason excepted.”

In the higher Royal Arch Ceremony, the oath is:
“I furthermore promise and swear, that I will keep all the secrets of a Companion Royal Arch Mason (when communicated so me as such, or I knowing them to be such), without exceptions.
I furthermore promise and swear, that I will assist a Companion Royal Arch Mason when I see him engaged in any difficulty, and will espouse his cause so far as to extricate him from the same,WHETHER HE BE RIGHT OR WRONG” (emphasis mine).

These oaths are done on the Bible and one can’t simply say a judge who belongs to a Royal Arch chapter and is adjudicating a matter involving another Royal Arch Mason, will absolutely be objective.

In the legal profession, a cardinal rule, to ensure the stability of trust in the legal system, is that “Not only must Justice be done; it must also be seen to be done.” The appearance of Justice being done is vital and a Masonic judge adjudicating a matter involving a brother Mason and a non-Mason is too likely to vitiate the appearance of justice if the verdict “looks” biased. And one cannot dismiss this as ridiculous since every brother Mason is some standout guy - look at one happened to the P2 Lodge in Italy to see what happens when a secret society is allowed too much free reign.

If one is honoured enough to become a judge in any legal system in the West, one should resign from the Brotherhood immediately in the interests of justice. You’re dealing with all society now, Masons and the “profane”. It’s not a joke anymore.

 

[Brendan_64]

Very fair point.
Hypothetical situation:
You are an employer and business owner and you are filling a position. You have two candidates for the position with identical qualifications, and experience. Both candidates are responsible and very articulate, yet one is Catholic and the other is Muslim. You know this because one wears a Knights of Columbus pin and the other wears the crescent moon and star of the Muslim religion. All factors remaining equal, who do you personally hire and why?

I would employ whichever candidate came across best in the interview. They may have equal qualifications and experience, and may both have interviewed extremely well, but there would always be something about a person’s personality, warmth, attitude etc that would give them that edge. I would categorically NOT employ somone over another simply because they were a Catholic (unless of course it was for a teaching job in a Catholic school in which case their religious faith would be a distinct benefit).

To employ someone over another on the basis of them simply being a member of an organisation is illegal and rightly so.

OK then let me put a question to you, if, in a similar scenario you hade 2 candidates, one who was a non-catholic Mason, and one who was a Catholic (and not a Mason). Who would you employ?

Jesus has clearly commanded us to love our neighbour as ourself, choosing someone over another on the basis that they belong to a fraternity that you also belong to is clearly not following what Jesus commaded us to do. What is more important to you in this instance, the fraternity of Freemasons, or the greatest commandment of our Lord and Saviour?

 

[Brendan_64]

In the Third Degree, the Master Mason, the candidate promises:
“Further, that I will keep a worthy brother Master Mason’s secrets inviolable, when communicated to and received by me as such, murder and treason excepted.”

In the higher Royal Arch Ceremony, the oath is:
“I furthermore promise and swear, that I will keep all the secrets of a Companion Royal Arch Mason (when communicated so me as such, or I knowing them to be such), without exceptions.
I furthermore promise and swear, that I will assist a Companion Royal Arch Mason when I see him engaged in any difficulty, and will espouse his cause so far as to extricate him from the same,WHETHER HE BE RIGHT OR WRONG” (emphasis mine).

These oaths are done on the Bible and one can’t simply say a judge who belongs to a Royal Arch chapter and is adjudicating a matter involving another Royal Arch Mason, will absolutely be objective.

The fact that the oaths are done on the Bible is clearly abominable. Swearing an oath on the Bible is not an empty oath or something to be taken lightly. And using the Bible to swear to cover up the sins of others who belong in your secret society is tantamount to blasphemy.

This is cleaely not compatible with Christianity, and the Church is quite right in barring all Masons from recieving the Sacraments. How can any Catholic think it’s OK to be in the Masons when the Church deems it to be a state of mortal sin. They clearly have chosen the Freemasons over the Church.

 

[ffg]

I thought of this thread this morning when the AM Catholic Radio mentioned the Pope saying something to the effect - (paraphasing )that the teachings of the Church be understood and followed in their ‘fullness’.

When I heard this line I immediately thought of all those things that distract us from the Church. This subject seems to be one where the fullness of the teaching is pretty obvious, but the choice to follow that teaching is not implanted with fullness on many hearts.

 

[KyivAndrew]

The fact that the oaths are done on the Bible is clearly abominable. Swearing an oath on the Bible is not an empty oath and something not to be taken seriously. And using the Bible to swear to cover up the sins of others who belong in your secret society is tantamount to blasphemy.

Yes, and in the Royal Arch ritual, the Mason is given the secret Grand Omnific Name for God “Jah-Bul-On”, a mongrel amalgam word, in a Mystical Lecture. JahBulOn is a combination of Jah with the pagan deities of Baal and Osiris, though there is much dissimulation on this point now by Royal Arch masons. In the degrees in Blue Lodge, the first three degrees, one is told the Name has been lost. Now one finds it - **JahBulOn **- and swears on the Holy Bible not to reveal it “binding myself under no less penalty, than to have my skull smote off, and my brains exposed to the scorching rays of the Meridian sun”.

So the Mason is obliging himself to extricate his fellow Mason from any difficulty, whether he be right or wrong, and obliging himself to keep secret the Omnific Name for God given to him in the ritual - an oath taken on the Bible. That’s sacrilege. Why wouldn’t a normal Christian in this circumstance not just throw his Masonic apron on the ground and leave the Temple and say this is absolutely ridiculous: I am now using the Bible to oblige myself to a Pagan Name for God on pain of decapitation?

This is in the York Rite’s Royal Arch chapters, but the Scottish Rite has the same direction in the Lodge of Perfection and higher degrees: looking for God’s secret name and the Royal Secret, except in the Scottish Rite they put on performances and initiate candidates in bulk through the degrees. It’s all just gnosticism and the Instructions that come with the ceremonies praise the “occult” sciences.

Indeed, one doesn’t even need the Bible for these oaths. As I understand it, Masons are bringing in Wiccan books or Druid stuff as the Volume of Sacred Law for the oaths in the Masonic Temple which only seems natural as the Scottish Rite for instance is clearly non-Christian and praises the mystery religions. I think the Grand Lodge of Florida objected to this, but in the American South there seems to be a greater problem involving race and the Lodge and Valleys and Prince Hall Masonry, but that’s another story.

In any event, how can any Mason object to a Masonic initiate bringing in the Egyptian Book of the Dead as opposed to the Bible for his oaths since Masonry for 250-300 years now has been praising the occult mystery religions through Pike, Clausen and to today.

In the Masonic Temple, the initiate is blindfolded and searches for the Masonic Light in the Lodge and the Secret Name for God and the Master Mason’s word. Last I heard, nobody comes in with a blindfold into a Christian Church crawling around looking for the lost Name of God.

 

[ess1113a]

I would employ whichever candidate came across best in the interview. They may have equal qualifications and experience, and may both have interviewed extremely well, but there would always be something about a person’s personality, warmth, attitude etc that would give them that edge. I would categorically NOT employ somone over another simply because they were a Catholic (unless of course it was for a teaching job in a Catholic school in which case their religious faith would be a distinct benefit).

To employ someone over another on the basis of them simply being a member of an organisation is illegal and rightly so.

OK then let me put a question to you, if, in a similar scenario you hade 2 candidates, one who was a non-catholic Mason, and one who was a Catholic (and not a Mason). Who would you employ?

Jesus has clearly commanded us to love our neighbour as ourself, choosing someone over another on the basis that they belong to a fraternity that you also belong to is clearly not following what Jesus commaded us to do. What is more important to you in this instance, the fraternity of Freemasons, or the greatest commandment of our Lord and Saviour?

Not sure how to answer that since asking religion is prohibited by law and so is asking about fraternal membership. I have difficulty in predicting how I would come into knowledge of either religious affiliations or fraternal memberships so I cant really answer that.

 

[ess1113a]

Yes, and in the Royal Arch ritual, the Mason is given the secret Grand Omnific Name for God “Jah-Bul-On”, a mongrel amalgam word, in a Mystical Lecture. JahBulOn is a combination of Jah with the pagan deities of Baal and Osiris, though there is much dissimulation on this point now by Royal Arch masons. In the degrees in Blue Lodge, the first three degrees, one is told the Name has been lost. Now one finds it - **JahBulOn **- and swears on the Holy Bible not to reveal it “binding myself under no less penalty, than to have my skull smote off, and my brains exposed to the scorching rays of the Meridian sun”.

So the Mason is obliging himself to extricate his fellow Mason from any difficulty, whether he be right or wrong, and obliging himself to keep secret the Omnific Name for God given to him in the ritual - an oath taken on the Bible. That’s sacrilege. Why wouldn’t a normal Christian in this circumstance not just throw his Masonic apron on the ground and leave the Temple and say this is absolutely ridiculous: I am now using the Bible to oblige myself to a Pagan Name for God on pain of decapitation?

This is in the York Rite’s Royal Arch chapters, but the Scottish Rite has the same direction in the Lodge of Perfection and higher degrees: looking for God’s secret name and the Royal Secret, except in the Scottish Rite they put on performances and initiate candidates in bulk through the degrees. It’s all just gnosticism and the Instructions that come with the ceremonies praise the “occult” sciences.

Indeed, one doesn’t even need the Bible for these oaths. As I understand it, Masons are bringing in Wiccan books or Druid stuff as the Volume of Sacred Law for the oaths in the Masonic Temple which only seems natural as the Scottish Rite for instance is clearly non-Christian and praises the mystery religions. I think the Grand Lodge of Florida objected to this, but in the American South there seems to be a greater problem involving race and the Lodge and Valleys and Prince Hall Masonry, but that’s another story.

In any event, how can any Mason object to a Masonic initiate bringing in the Egyptian Book of the Dead as opposed to the Bible for his oaths since Masonry for 250-300 years now has been praising the occult mystery religions through Pike, Clausen and to today.

In the Masonic Temple, the initiate is blindfolded and searches for the Masonic Light in the Lodge and the Secret Name for God and the Master Mason’s word. Last I heard, nobody comes in with a blindfold into a Christian Church crawling around looking for the lost Name of God.

Not every Freemason is a member of the York Rite or the Scottish Rite so does that apply to a regular Freemason that hasnt ever associated with either of those two bodies?

 

[Brendan_64]

Not sure how to answer that since asking religion is prohibited by law and so is asking about fraternal membership. I have difficulty in predicting how I would come into knowledge of either religious affiliations or fraternal memberships so I cant really answer that.

I thought you said earlier that all things being equal between 2 candidates you would give the job to a Freemason.

So now you’re telling me that Freemasons don’t recognise one another and that you would have no idea whether a job applicant was a Freemason or not? No funny handshakes, no passwords, no clues in application letters? Nothing at all? Yeah, right.

You posed the question to me about whether or not I would give a job to a Catholic over a Muslim, if all other things about the candidates were equal, and I gave you my answer. But then when I put the same question to you but change the candidates to one being a Catholic non-mason, and the other a Freemason you say that you are unable to answer.

Or perhaps it’s just that at school you were just taught to be cautious on such matters?

 

[ess1113a]

I thought you said earlier that all things being equal between 2 candidates you would give the job to a Freemason.

So now you’re telling me that Freemasons don’t recognise one another and that you would have no idea whether a job applicant was a Freemason or not? No funny handshakes, no passwords, no clues in application letters? Nothing at all? Yeah, right.

You posed the question to me about whether or not I would give a job to a Catholic over a Muslim, if all other things about the candidates were equal, and I gave you my answer. But then when I put the same question to you but change the candidates to one being a Catholic non-mason, and the other a Freemason you say that you are unable to answer.

Or perhaps it’s just that at school you were just taught to be cautious on such matters?

Given the parameters of the current law, how do you suppose I arrive at a knowledge of their religion or affiliations?

 

[ess1113a]

The actual question about hiring practices was not originally posed by me. I was merely using it as an example.

 

[KyivAndrew]

Not every Freemason is a member of the York Rite or the Scottish Rite so does that apply to a regular Freemason that hasnt ever associated with either of those two bodies?

Sure, you still use Christ’s name in vain if you use the Bible to swear oaths to secrecy in the Masonic Lodge with other members on penalty of self-mutilation. The whole Hiram Abiff ritual is based on gnosticism, even in Blue Lodge as your own Texas Masonic Monitor states, which I quoted earlier in this thread:
Grand Lodge of Texas, A.F. and A.M., Monitor of the Lodge: Monitorial Instructions in the Three Degrees of Symbolic Masonry (Grand Lodge of Texas, 1982), pp. xiii-xiv:

“These [Masonic teachings were] practiced from remote ages, in the ancient temples of many nations. Such ceremonies and their correlated teachings have sometimes been referred to as the Mysteries of Masonry, with the same signification employed when one speaks of the ‘Mysteries of the Magi’, the ‘Mysteries of Osiris,’ the ‘Grecian Mysteries of Eleusis,’ and other kindred rites, practiced in the temples of initiation throughout the ancient world…
The presence in the modern Masonic system, of many of the emblems, symbols and allegories of the ancient Temples of Initiation, as well as certain rites performed therein, has persuaded the most learned among Masonic scholars to conclude that Masonry is of very ancient origin, and is, in some aspects, the modern successor of, and heir to, the sublime Mysteries of the Temple of Solomon, and of the the Temples of India, Chaldea, Egypt, Greece, and Rome, as well as the basic doctrines of the Essenes, Gnostics and other mystic Orders”.

Please tell me where you disagree with your own Masonic Monitor or do you believe Osiris is compatible with Jesus Christ in oaths to morality? What exactly is the morality that Osiris propagated? I’m not the one making the claim about your ritual; your own Lodge does explicitly in the Monitor which governs the ritual which your state uses for initiation. Your own Lodge - not me.

The whole ritual of having a dagger pointed at your heart while you’re blindfolded with a noose around your neck in darkness in search of secret knowledge in the Masonic Temple is based on what some wag in the 18th century looked for in the pagan mystery religions of old which were completely incompatible with Christianity. Hiram Abiff is killed for not divulging the secrets of a Master Mason and, maybe after an hour of being on the ground of the Temple waiting for his killers to be brought to justice, later, is raised by King Solomon by the lion’s paw in reward for Hiram keeping a secret. For keeping a secret. This is a reenactment of ritual murder.

Christ however died and was raised but not on the basis of a Secret Grip and in reward for keeping a secret, but for the salvation of mankind. Hiram Abiff is simply a play on Christ, but with secret esoteric knowledge being the virtue and dedication to one’s fellow initiates. The Blue Lodge ritual says the Word has been lost, the name of God, but as a Christian you believe the Word to be Jesus Christ so, of course, even Blue Lodge is incompatible with Christianity, unless you honestly believe God’s name to have been lost.

 

[the_phoenix]

Given the parameters of the current law, how do you suppose I arrive at a knowledge of their religion or affiliations?

So let’s say that one job applicant gives you a handshake that you recognize as being a Masonic handshake and the other job applicant doesn’t. All other things being equal, who would you pick for the job?

…

 

[ess1113a]

So let’s say that one job applicant gives you a handshake that you recognize as being a Masonic handshake and the other job applicant doesn’t. All other things being equal, who would you pick for the job?

…

I think the previous idea is a great one. I would ask a partner or trusted individual to conduct the interview for me since I may be biased. Even a perceived bias would not be acceptable but my recusal would help make sure the best applicant is hired. I surround myself with trusted people that I rely upon so it shouldnt be an issue for them to conduct the interview as soon as I thought there was bias perceived.

I need to take a moment and clarify a misconception. No Mason just “uses” a handshake. You use a handshake if someone presented themselves to attend a lodge and you wanted to determine if he was indeed a Mason. I have never used or received a Masonic handshake outside of a lodge. Every handshake is perfectly illustrated on the internet so that would be a highly unreliable means of determining membership. Just like all the “secrets” of Freemasonry…accessible throughout the internet. Not many secrets these days and the handshake and words of a Freemason arent secret any longer.

 

[ess1113a]

Sure, you still use Christ’s name in vain if you use the Bible to swear oaths to secrecy in the Masonic Lodge with other members on penalty of self-mutilation. The whole Hiram Abiff ritual is based on gnosticism, even in Blue Lodge as your own Texas Masonic Monitor states, which I quoted earlier in this thread:
Grand Lodge of Texas, A.F. and A.M., Monitor of the Lodge: Monitorial Instructions in the Three Degrees of Symbolic Masonry (Grand Lodge of Texas, 1982), pp. xiii-xiv:

“These [Masonic teachings were] practiced from remote ages, in the ancient temples of many nations. Such ceremonies and their correlated teachings have sometimes been referred to as the Mysteries of Masonry, with the same signification employed when one speaks of the ‘Mysteries of the Magi’, the ‘Mysteries of Osiris,’ the ‘Grecian Mysteries of Eleusis,’ and other kindred rites, practiced in the temples of initiation throughout the ancient world…
The presence in the modern Masonic system, of many of the emblems, symbols and allegories of the ancient Temples of Initiation, as well as certain rites performed therein, has persuaded the most learned among Masonic scholars to conclude that Masonry is of very ancient origin, and is, in some aspects, the modern successor of, and heir to, the sublime Mysteries of the Temple of Solomon, and of the the Temples of India, Chaldea, Egypt, Greece, and Rome, as well as the basic doctrines of the Essenes, Gnostics and other mystic Orders”.

Please tell me where you disagree with your own Masonic Monitor or do you believe Osiris is compatible with Jesus Christ in oaths to morality? What exactly is the morality that Osiris propagated? I’m not the one making the claim about your ritual; your own Lodge does explicitly in the Monitor which governs the ritual which your state uses for initiation. Your own Lodge - not me.

The whole ritual of having a dagger pointed at your heart while you’re blindfolded with a noose around your neck in darkness in search of secret knowledge in the Masonic Temple is based on what some wag in the 18th century looked for in the pagan mystery religions of old which were completely incompatible with Christianity. Hiram Abiff is killed for not divulging the secrets of a Master Mason and, maybe after an hour of being on the ground of the Temple waiting for his killers to be brought to justice, later, is raised by King Solomon by the lion’s paw in reward for Hiram keeping a secret. For keeping a secret. This is a reenactment of ritual murder.

Christ however died and was raised but not on the basis of a Secret Grip and in reward for keeping a secret, but for the salvation of mankind. Hiram Abiff is simply a play on Christ, but with secret esoteric knowledge being the virtue and dedication to one’s fellow initiates. The Blue Lodge ritual says the Word has been lost, the name of God, but as a Christian you believe the Word to be Jesus Christ so, of course, even Blue Lodge is incompatible with Christianity, unless you honestly believe God’s name to have been lost.

I swore an oath of secrecy in the Knights of Columbus also. Not sure how that fits into your argument but it was sworn and it was serious.