The Mass as a tool for evangelization?

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djrakowski said:
What in the world is this supposed to mean? Either you were baptized, or you weren’t.

I’m quite frustrated with the superior attitude held by the ‘believer’s baptism’ crowd, that totally disregards the sacrament if it was given to an individual as an infant. It is particularly interesting in light of the fact that the majority of such folks do so while considering their own baptisms as symbolic (and further interesting that they place such an emphasis on this baptism, while claiming that it actually does nothing for you, which is strange - why would the Lord insist that we do something that has absolutely no effect?)
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Interesting… as a non-denominational Christian, I never thought of it this way. If it is merely symbolic, why bother? Of course, one must keep in mind that while baptism is encouraged in protestantism, it is often not considered necessary, though commanded by Christ. It saddens me to think of how much they have trashed the importance of this sacrament. But please keep in mind that what you’re perceiving as a superior attitude is usually meant with good intention. Many genuinely have not been taught any other way of looking at it. They simply trust what they’ve been taught and run with it. I refused to look at the “other” aspect because I’d been living with “truth” for 30 years and no one could tell me I’d been taught wrong but God himself!

I recently attended my father’s baptism… at a non-denominational church. Every time, before they “dunked” someone, they would say, “You understand that these waters are not magical? That the water cannot save you?” This made me realize the misconception! They think that Catholics teach that the “water” is salvific. What they don’t understand is that it’s the work of the Holy Spirit THROUGH the water, not the water itself. Of course the “water” doesn’t do the job! DUH!

The point is, if what they THINK the Catholic Church teaches was actually what the Catholic Church taught, in many cases, even Catholics wouldn’t be Catholic!

I had someone tell me the other day, “I heard that Catholics do not pray to Jesus and that they only pray to Mary.”

Are you kidding?!? If that were true, I wouldn’t accept Catholicism and neither would anyone else! I told her so… I mean, I’ve been a Christian most of my life and if someone told me I could not pray to Jesus, I wouldn’t be joining them!
 
thistle said:
What’s happened to the OP? Has he gone into hiding?
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Let’s be fair to the OP.

It is less than 12 hours since this thread was started. The OP probably hasn’t been browsing the internet all day. Hard that it may be for some of us to contemplate, there are some people who aren’t constantly at their computer. Some people will look once a day, some people less than that. For all we know the OP might only be granted a couple of hours a week to use the computer.

So let’s give the OP the benefit of the doubt. He’s probably not in hiding. He’s just not sitting by a computer at the moment. (apologies for referring to you as ‘he’ scripturealone if you’re a woman)
 
My girlfriend is a convert whose number one reason for becoming Catholic was the Mass (which she first attended with some friends when she was an n-C) The number one reason for her conversion was the very fact that participation in the Mass and especially Holy Communion at the Mass is the deepest, most profound, relationship one can ever dream of having with Our Lord. 🙂

We have more than a personal relationship with Jesus–we have intimate Communion. Our whole beings, body and soul, are united to His whole being, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity as we share in His sanctifying life 👍
 
asteroid said:
Let’s be fair to the OP.

It is less than 12 hours since this thread was started. The OP probably hasn’t been browsing the internet all day. Hard that it may be for some of us to contemplate, there are some people who aren’t constantly at their computer. Some people will look once a day, some people less than that. For all we know the OP might only be granted a couple of hours a week to use the computer.

So let’s give the OP the benefit of the doubt. He’s probably not in hiding. He’s just not sitting by a computer at the moment. (apologies for referring to you as ‘he’ scripturealone if you’re a woman)
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I agree. It’s sometimes hard for us to be patient in this world of instant gratification, especially when you’re used to getting responses almost right away.
 
(Edited for charity…If you had said you’d be back they might not have wondered…)

Ok. back to the question at hand. First of all, protestant services do act as a tool for evangelization. We have done focuses on the 40 days of purpose and have had people come to Christ as a result.

About my baptism (I will leave it at this) an infant cannot profess faith in Jesus Christ.
 
ONLY_SCRIPTURE said:
We have done focuses on the 40 days of purpose and have had people come to Christ as a result.
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Sadly, so have some Catholic parishes. Sad, not because people are “coming to Christ”, but because there are much better programs out there.
About my baptism (I will leave it at this) an infant cannot profess faith in Jesus Christ.
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No one said they could.
 
ONLY_SCRIPTURE said:
First of all, all of you please realize that I actually have a life, and don’t have hours to watch my posts here. For those of you who are dismissing me as a hit and run, I would suggest that you get a life and get off your computers. You are truly pathetic if you have nothing better to do than call me a coward or whatever.

Ok. back to the question at hand. First of all, protestant services do act as a tool for evangelization. We have done focuses on the 40 days of purpose and have had people come to Christ as a result.

About my baptism (I will leave it at this) an infant cannot profess faith in Jesus Christ.
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John the Baptist “leapt for joy” in his mother’s womb when Mary, pregnant with the Savior of the world, entered the house. How much faith does it take? When is faith, saving faith?
 
ONLY_SCRIPTURE said:
About my baptism (I will leave it at this) an infant cannot profess faith in Jesus Christ.
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Baptising infants before they know what is going on is an expression of God’s great love for us. It shows that God loves us and accepts us before we can ever know and love Him. It shows that we are wanted and loved by God from the very moment of our birth. Nothing shows the nature of God’s grace more than infant baptism.
 
ONLY_SCRIPTURE said:
About my baptism (I will leave it at this) an infant cannot profess faith in Jesus Christ.
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Passage Colossians 2:11-12:
11In whom also you are circumcised with circumcision not made by hand, in despoiling of the body of the flesh, but in the circumcision of Christ: 12Buried with him in baptism, in whom also you are risen again by the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him up from the dead.

In this Passage, Paul is telling us that circumcision has taken the place of Baptism, and circumcision did not happen when the child professed faith (I’m sure all the guys are breathing easier) Why would you want to withold Baptism from a little child? It is our entrance into the Covenent with God…

And what does it matter anyway…if you think it is merely symbolic?
 
ONLY_SCRIPTURE said:
About my baptism (I will leave it at this) an infant cannot profess faith in Jesus Christ.
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no, he/she cannot. However, his/her parents or guardian can do it for him. Using ‘only Scripture’ I wonder if we can find a text that relates just such an incident of a parent’s or a master’s faith being sufficient to save their child or their servant.

Luke 7:1-10 The healing of the Centurion’s servant

Mt 15:21-28. The healing of the Canaanite Woman’s daughter.

(I’m surprised that someone who identifies themself as "Scripture Only would not already understand this.)

Any others?
 
maurin said:
no, he/she cannot. However, his/her parents or guardian can do it for him.
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Hippolytus (170-236 A.D.)
“And first baptize the little ones; and if they can speak for themselves, they shall do so; if not, their parents or other relatives shall speak for them.”
 
Ok, if you want to know how Protestants think, I will let you know a little something. I could see how some people could accept infant baptism, although i still find it a little suspect.

Very few protestant churches claim to be the ONLY TRUE CHURCH THAT CHRIST ESTABLISHED. They dont claim to be perfect, but the RC church does.

So if they can find one thing wrong with the RCC, then it is all over.

If you must know, I find the weakest argument being Mary as the Mediatrix of all graces. There is no biblical proof - ok i can see that. But there is no proof or reason whatsoever for this doctrine!

I even read Keating’s Catholicism and Fundamentalism, and have found it lacking in this area. There is simply no foundation for this, this is the church’s achilles heel.
 
ONLY_SCRIPTURE said:
Ok, if you want to know how Protestants think, I will let you know a little something. I could see how some people could accept infant baptism, although i still find it a little suspect.

Very few protestant churches claim to be the ONLY TRUE CHURCH THAT CHRIST ESTABLISHED. They dont claim to be perfect, but the RC church does.

So if they can find one thing wrong with the RCC, then it is all over.

If you must know, I find the weakest argument being Mary as the Mediatrix of all graces. There is no biblical proof - ok i can see that. But there is no proof or reason whatsoever for this doctrine!

I even read Keating’s Catholicism and Fundamentalism, and have found it lacking in this area. There is simply no foundation for this, this is the church’s achilles heel.
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If you’re looking for “gotcha” doctrines and Achilles’ heels, you might want to take a look at sola scriptura. Before you go off on allegedly unscriptural doctrines, you might try to locate your foundational doctrine, you know, in scripture.
 
ONLY_SCRIPTURE said:
Very few protestant churches claim to be the ONLY TRUE CHURCH THAT CHRIST ESTABLISHED. They dont claim to be perfect, but the RC church does.
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It is easy to show that Christ established one Church and it is easy to show the direct lineage of the Catholic Church back to Christ himself both theologically and historically.
ONLY SCRIPTURE:
If you must know, I find the weakest argument being Mary as the Mediatrix of all graces. There is no biblical proof - ok i can see that. But there is no proof or reason whatsoever for this doctrine!
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This one is easy – even for a Protestant – because Our Lady “mediated” all grace by bringing the Son of God into the world as her own son, and by joining with the Father in giving her son for the salvation of the world.
 
ONLY_SCRIPTURE said:
Ok, if you want to know how Protestants think, I will let you know a little something. I could see how some people could accept infant baptism, although i still find it a little suspect.

Very few protestant churches claim to be the ONLY TRUE CHURCH THAT CHRIST ESTABLISHED. They dont claim to be perfect, but the RC church does.

So if they can find one thing wrong with the RCC, then it is all over.

If you must know, I find the weakest argument being Mary as the Mediatrix of all graces. There is no biblical proof - ok i can see that. But there is no proof or reason whatsoever for this doctrine!

I even read Keating’s Catholicism and Fundamentalism, and have found it lacking in this area. There is simply no foundation for this, this is the church’s achilles heel.
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At what age did you leave the Catholic Church?
 
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