The Mass as a tool for evangelization?

[mom2three]

Ok, if you want to know how Protestants think, I will let you know a little something. I could see how some people could accept infant baptism, although i still find it a little suspect.

Very few protestant churches claim to be the ONLY TRUE CHURCH THAT CHRIST ESTABLISHED. They dont claim to be perfect, but the RC church does.

Protestant churches cannot take this claim because they’ve only been around for 500 years… The Catholic Church began at the time of Christ and they were the ONLY church for 1000 years. Christ established a church that He promised to protect.

If he did not keep this promise, none of us should believe in Him at all. But He cannot lie… therefore, since the Catholic church was all there was for the first 1000 years, they are able to make this claim. They would also not cease to be the church Christ promised to protect.

 

[Lillith]

If you must know, I find the weakest argument being Mary as the Mediatrix of all graces. There is no biblical proof - ok i can see that. But there is no proof or reason whatsoever for this doctrine!

I even read Keating’s Catholicism and Fundamentalism, and have found it lacking in this area. There is simply no foundation for this, this is the church’s achilles heel.

Mary as Mediatrix is not Doctrine…it is a title that a theologen bestowed upon Mary while meditating upon the mystery of her role in our salvation.

Passage Luke 1:48:

48for he has been mindful 
  of the humble state of his servant.

From now on all generations will call me blessed

It is my belief that most Protestants should reflect on this passage…lest they be conflicted with the very scripture that they so dearly love.

 

[Black_Knight_MI]

Ok, if you want to know how Protestants think, I will let you know a little something.

Not that it matter very much because it does not change the truth.

I could see how some people could accept infant baptism, although i still find it a little suspect.

You want “Only Scripture”? No Problem… Look HERE and then print it out and Download and listen to THIS.

Very few protestant churches claim to be the ONLY TRUE CHURCH THAT CHRIST ESTABLISHED.

They don’t because they cannot trace a verifiable historical line the way the Catholic Church can. Moreover they proceed to create interpretations of the passages that teach this doctrine that require the twisting of scripture and again have not been held by the church throughout it’s 2,000 year history.

They dont claim to be perfect, but the RC church does.

This equine fertilzer, since you cannot provide a single dogmatic source where the Catholic Church claims this.

So if they can find one thing wrong with the RCC, then it is all over.

And yet… in the 500 years since the “deformation”, not a single one has. And if you bothered to check you’d see that all this bunkum has been answered again and again by Catholics over the last 500 years.

If you must know, I find the weakest argument being Mary as the Mediatrix of all graces. There is no biblical proof - ok i can see that. But there is no proof or reason whatsoever for this doctrine!

Can you provide an authentic Catholic document that says that this is a dogmatic teaching of the church? I don’t think you can.

I even read Keating’s Catholicism and Fundamentalism, and have found it lacking in this area. There is simply no foundation for this, this is the church’s achilles heel.

Yeah…right.
Blackie

 

[TheGarg]

I am surprised to see how people think that the mass can be used as a tool for evangelization. If it is, then it is the worst tool yet devised by Rome.

I was a slave in the Roman church. “Baptized” (if you can call it that) as a infant, I didn’t know what I was getting into, and attended for years without so much of a WORD that Jesus was my savior and I could enter into a relationship with him.

I would like to keep the topic focused on the mass as a tool for evangelization. Sorry if I digressed, but I cannot stomach the thought of sitting through that litany once again. By leaving the church of Rome I have grown in relationship with Jesus, my savior.

If you want to keep the conversation focused, then keep your snide remarks to yourself, and live up to the standard you impose on others. your not in the Catholic Church cause your prideful, and like burger king, you want it your way.

my rebuttle is READ scott hahn’s “the lambs supper” …

Peace of the Lord be with you.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Hi,
I have to tell you that if the Mass is used for evangelization–then they are doing a poor job. I sadly have to tell you that the only catholics I know who are dedicated devout and seek Jesus are on this forum. I cant repeat to you guys what your fellow brethren say about the church. They are(is the term cradle catholic when you have been born and raised catholic?)cradle catholics. A woman at the gym was so negative and nasty toward the church but yet still taking her children to CCD. Why? probably because she was raised that way and doesnt really know why she should being doing it. That is what I find when I meet someone who is catholic. They go to church and make sure they send their kids to CCD and get confirmed and then bash the church. I really think the RCC is doing something wrong in their teaching or evangelizing.

My personal and humble opinion is that they are not teaching a person that they can have a personal relationship with Christ instead it is about following certain rules do be a good catholic. Dont bash me this is just what I see where I live. It really saddens me that these people talk about church this way.
Ok Im done

 

[djrakowski]

Ok, if you want to know how Protestants think, I will let you know a little something. I could see how some people could accept infant baptism, although i still find it a little suspect.

ONLY SCRIPTURE, I still find it mighty interesting that you haven’t used only scripture, but rather only your opinion, to discredit baptism. Try again, using only scripture.

 

[jmcrae]

Hi,
I have to tell you that if the Mass is used for evangelization–then they are doing a poor job.

The Mass isn’t used for evangelization, but it is our worship, and we see in at least four places in the Gospels and in St. Paul’s writings where Jesus established the Mass and commanded us to participate in it.

What I don’t understand (and maybe I’m the one who’s dense) is how anyone could receive Holy Communion, believe that it is the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, whole and entire, living and present, of Jesus Christ, and think that they don’t have a relationship with Jesus Christ.

How much more intimate could one possibly get with Him than that?

Our Pope has recently lamented that the state of Catechesis in North America is quite possibly the worst in the world, maybe even the worst in all of Christian history, and I don’t doubt that it’s true, especially if the OP is telling the truth and really did go to Mass while having no idea that he was communing in person with Jesus when he was there.

It’s web sites like this one that are helping to turn the situation around, though - and I think we’re seeing progress - but it will be a long hard climb to recover from 40 years of “cut, color, and draw.”

Thank God for the zeal of the folks who keep places like this up and running.

 

[mom2three]

The Mass isn’t used for evangelization, but it is our worship, and we see in at least four places in the Gospels and in St. Paul’s writings where Jesus established the Mass and commanded us to participate in it.

What I don’t understand (and maybe I’m the one who’s dense) is how anyone could receive Holy Communion, believe that it is the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, whole and entire, living and present, of Jesus Christ, and think that they don’t have a relationship with Jesus Christ.

How much more intimate could one possibly get with Him than that?

Our Pope has recently lamented that the state of Catechesis in North America is quite possibly the worst in the world, maybe even the worst in all of Christian history, and I don’t doubt that it’s true, especially if the OP is telling the truth and really did go to Mass while having no idea that he was communing in person with Jesus when he was there.

It’s web sites like this one that are helping to turn the situation around, though - and I think we’re seeing progress - but it will be a long hard climb to recover from 40 years of “cut, color, and draw.”

Thank God for the zeal of the folks who keep places like this up and running.

Precisely why, as a cradle-Protestant-becoming Catholic, I will be SURE that my children are catechized properly… it begins in the home.

 

[jmcrae]

Precisely why, as a cradle-Protestant-becoming Catholic, I will be SURE that my children are catechized properly… it begins in the home.

Welcome to the greatest adventure of your life!!

 

[Sherlock]

Hi,
I have to tell you that if the Mass is used for evangelization–then they are doing a poor job. I sadly have to tell you that the only catholics I know who are dedicated devout and seek Jesus are on this forum. I cant repeat to you guys what your fellow brethren say about the church. They are(is the term cradle catholic when you have been born and raised catholic?)cradle catholics. A woman at the gym was so negative and nasty toward the church but yet still taking her children to CCD. Why? probably because she was raised that way and doesnt really know why she should being doing it. That is what I find when I meet someone who is catholic. They go to church and make sure they send their kids to CCD and get confirmed and then bash the church. I really think the RCC is doing something wrong in their teaching or evangelizing.

My personal and humble opinion is that they are not teaching a person that they can have a personal relationship with Christ instead it is about following certain rules do be a good catholic. Dont bash me this is just what I see where I live. It really saddens me that these people talk about church this way.
Ok Im done

Well, I have to agree. Good catechesis is essential. However, let’s face it—a person DOES have responsibility for their attitudes. If someone is “down” on the Church, then it behooves that person to look into the issue in question and find out why the Church teaches what she teaches before dumping or castigating her. To be honest, I haven’t found that to be the case with those who are anti-Catholic: they can’t give effective arguments against the Church, because they don’t even know what the arguments are. You can blame the all-too-human members of the Church for not teaching correctly, but you can’t blame her for lazy people who frankly don’t give a hoot and who will bad-mouth the Church because of misconceptions or an unwillingness to live up to the difficult life of a serious Christian.

 

[ltehs63]

Very few protestant churches claim to be the ONLY TRUE CHURCH THAT CHRIST ESTABLISHED. They dont claim to be perfect, but the RC church does.

Jesus only founded one Church not 33,000 denominations. Dont you think that the Church would claim to be the Church?

(1 Tim 3:15) “The Church the pillar and bulwark of the Truth.” the Church upholds and defends the Truth. Taht is simply what we are doing.

The bible tells us that what ever is bound in heaven is bound on earth. Does God bind and lose error?
The bible says who ever hears us hears Jesus. Did Jesus teach error? what you are saying is that he did. the apstles believed that they was teaching without error, so do we.

I bet you think that all denominations together are that Church right. well that goes aginst scripture, ONLY SCRIPTURE. it is not ok to believe different teachings no matter how little. the Church was one and believed all the same.

(Eph 4:14) “so that we may no longer be infants, tossed by waves and swept by every wind of teachings arising from human trickery, from their cunning in the interest of deceitful doctrines.”

(1Cor 1:10) “I urge you brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Chris that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions amongst you.”

(Jn 10:16) “I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice, and there will be one flock, one shepherd.”

( Col 1: 18) “He is head of the one body, the Church.” Church singular not plural.
Jesus only has one body not 33,000.

(Acts 4:32) “ The community of believers was of one heart and mind, and no one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they had EVERYTHING in common.”

( Eph 4:3-6) “Striving to reserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace. One body and one Spirit as you were called one hope of your call; one Lord one faith, one baptism one God and Father of all who is over all and through all in all.”

We are CALLED to be one body (one Church) one faith. Not 33,000 plus bodies, faiths, flocks, churches, shepherds. And that is what we have 33,000 plus shepherds acting as pope for his own individual flock. Again this is not what Jesus left us with. He left us with the Church of (1Tim 3:15)

The Church is Athoritative
(Matt 18:15-17) “ Tell it to the Church.” Here we have a church that seems to be an authoritative church. Our else there would be no need to tell it to the church. Well which church do we tell it to. We have 33,000 churches to chose from. So if my church tells me something othor than what I want to hear its ok I have thousands more to chose from. What church speaks authoritatively to fulfill this passage? And if the Church is divided how does it speak authoritatively? So not only did Jesus leave us with a Church of truth and unity he left us with an authoritative Church.

 

[ltehs63]

( Eph 1:22-23) “And he put all things beneath his feet and gave him as head over all things to the Church which is his body, the FULLNESS of the one who fills all things in every way.”)
The Church is the FULLNESS of the Truth. How does the fullness of the truth divide amongst 33,000 denominations?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Well, I have to agree. Good catechesis is essential. However, let’s face it—a person DOES have responsibility for their attitudes. If someone is “down” on the Church, then it behooves that person to look into the issue in question and find out why the Church teaches what she teaches before dumping or castigating her. To be honest, I haven’t found that to be the case with those who are anti-Catholic: they can’t give effective arguments against the Church, because they don’t even know what the arguments are. You can blame the all-too-human members of the Church for not teaching correctly, but you can’t blame her for lazy people who frankly don’t give a hoot and who will bad-mouth the Church because of misconceptions or an unwillingness to live up to the difficult life of a serious Christian.

Hi,
I agree 100%

ALLFORHIM

 

[MariaG]

I am surprised to see how people think that the mass can be used as a tool for evangelization.

I would like to keep the topic focused on the mass as a tool for evangelization.

**"How Do Catholics Hear The Gospel?" (Gary Michuta) **

If you can bear to see the truth, go and read the link and you will see that in every Mass the four simple easy steps of salvation are there. You just never opened the door for our Lord to enter while sitting in the pews there.

1. We acknowledge that we are all sinners in need of God’s forgiveness.
2. We recognize that only God can save us.
3. Jesus Christ died on the Cross for our sins and to bring us to God.
4. Each individual accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior to be saved.

God bless,
Maria

 

[ALLFORHIM]

( Eph 1:22-23) “And he put all things beneath his feet and gave him as head over all things to the Church which is his body, the FULLNESS of the one who fills all things in every way.”)
The Church is the FULLNESS of the Truth. How does the fullness of the truth divide amongst 33,000 denominations?

Hi,

I dont know how all protestants think, but I know that born again christians believe that the CHURCH is a spiritual unity–body of believers. We do not believe that it is an instituion. Their lies the difference. The body of believers are anyone, anywhere and in any church denom(including catholics)that have personally accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior and has committed their life to follow Christ and to have the goal of becoming Christ-like. This would be to follow the fruit of the spirit in Galations.

Peace

 

[jonfan]

Well, I have to agree. Good catechesis is essential. However, let’s face it—a person DOES have responsibility for their attitudes. If someone is “down” on the Church, then it behooves that person to look into the issue in question and find out why the Church teaches what she teaches before dumping or castigating her. To be honest, I haven’t found that to be the case with those who are anti-Catholic: they can’t give effective arguments against the Church, because they don’t even know what the arguments are. You can blame the all-too-human members of the Church for not teaching correctly, but you can’t blame her for lazy people who frankly don’t give a hoot and who will bad-mouth the Church because of misconceptions or an unwillingness to live up to the difficult life of a serious Christian.

AMEN!

 

[mercygate]

Hi,

I dont know how all protestants think, but I know that born again christians believe that the CHURCH is a spiritual unity–body of believers. We do not believe that it is an instituion. Their lies the difference. The body of believers are anyone, anywhere and in any church denom(including catholics)that have personally accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior and has committed their life to follow Christ and to have the goal of becoming Christ-like. This would be to follow the fruit of the spirit in Galations.

Peace

Catholics do not believe that the Church is an “institution” in the sense that it amounts to nothing more than the “organization” knkown as the Catholic Church.

But we do believe that, just as Christ had an identifiable physical body when he walked among us as a man, the Body of Christ today, as the Church, has an identifiable and physical body in the Church he builds even now, and that the center, pillar and ground of that Church is the Catholic Church that we recognize through the unbroken threads of history, tradition, and teaching.

The Holy Spirit is continually calling men to Christ, whether they are in the Catholic Church or not, but the faith is preserved in its perfection and to its fullest expression in the Catholic Church – that is how we see the continuity of history, faith and tradition.

To us, the idea of a merely “spiritual” church without a body smacks of gnosticism.

 

[ltehs63]

Hi,
I dont know how all protestants think, but I know that born again christians believe that the CHURCH is a spiritual unity–body of believers.

The Church is the spiritual unity-body of belivers that beleive all the same doctrine. The Church is not divided on any issue.

. The body of believers are anyone, anywhere and in any church denom(including catholics)that have personally accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior and has committed their life to follow Christ and to have the goal of becoming Christ-like. This would be to follow the fruit of the spirit in Galations.

is that what the bible says
(Acts 4:32) “ **The community of believers **was of one heart and mind, and no one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they had EVERYTHING in common.”

Yes other denominations through baptism are in a way part of the True Church because they would not have what they have if it was not for the Church founded by Christ. but they are not in full communion with THE CHURCH.

 

[maurin]

Hi,

I dont know how all protestants think, but I know that born again christians believe that the CHURCH is a spiritual unity–body of believers. We do not believe that it is an instituion. Their lies the difference. The body of believers are anyone, anywhere and in any church denom(including catholics)that have personally accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior and has committed their life to follow Christ and to have the goal of becoming Christ-like. This would be to follow the fruit of the spirit in Galations.

Peace

sorry, but that explanation is so false and illogical I can’t help but get passionate.

What unity are talking about? Do you really believe that the Presbyterians (the 'split p’s, as they refer to themselves), just to name one example, are unified in their beliefs about the Savior? Protestants are tens of thousands of denominational and non-denominational churches espousing tens of thousands of differing beliefs!!! And if the differences did not matter to you all, why then all the splits?

And you call this a spiritual unity?

I call it a cop-out. Forgive me if I have offended

 

[ALLFORHIM]

sorry, but that explanation is so false and illogical I can’t help but get passionate.

What unity are talking about? Do you really believe that the Presbyterians (the 'split p’s, as they refer to themselves), just to name one example, are unified in their beliefs about the Savior? Protestants are tens of thousands of denominational and non-denominational churches espousing tens of thousands of differing beliefs!!! And if the differences did not matter to you all, why then all the splits?

And you call this a spiritual unity?

I call it a cop-out. Forgive me if I have offended

Hi,
I will respond to this but then stop because I am hijacking the thread and I didnt mean to do that.

I am just as passionate as you. So I completely understand where you are coming from
What I call spiritual unity and the body of believers are the individual people who have committed their life to following Christ accepting salvation etc. Who we would all call brothers and sisters in Christ. When you say visible, I do agree that when we accept Christ we need to then start acting like it. Otherwise how are people going to know who Christ is if we do not show them through the fruit of the spirit in Galations. Im sure you would agree .

I have read the scriptures that support this and I have read the scripture that the CC use to support their beliefs. I have prayed and asked God to show me the truth. God has lead me to what I already believe. The CC has not proven to me that they are the ONE TRUE CHURCH. I just dont believe we can put God in a box like that. People can and have been saved outside the CC. I am not saying the CC is a bad church at all–just not THE ONLY TRUE CHURCH is all.
I think if you guys want to discuss this more you should start a new thread and then let me know.

Peace