The Masturbation Journal. Continued.

[Pfeffer102]

Refer to this thread for the first 11 pages…If you want to.

Day 28.
It’s really starting to not be fun anymore. I wish the word “fun” were replaced with the word “difficult,” but…no.
It’s almost as if I just don’t want to stop anymore and these rules are a bunch of nonsense. At least the sexual ones. Well no…no…Just this one. This one and having a gay relationship. (I mentioned in the last thing everything about the gay relationships, how I wouldn’t have sex with another man, or anybody, but would just like some kind of something between a friendship and a romantic relationship…just not quite sexual.) Pornography - That is just awful. Anyone who looks at men or women in sexual manners just to satisfy their own desires…is sick. Same with premarital sex. Can’t you guys wait?
I can’t see doing this forever, because I might explode. Maybe if I was older…But 17? That’s just a really bad, hard time to stop. Even though I have for 28 days now.
I went until Christmas. So that’s good I guess.
I just can’t get past the fact that if I actually did fall one of these days…And I just happened to die in my sleep that night…then I’d go to Hell.
And furthermore…I can’t get past the fact how many people are going to Hell! It just doesn’t make sense! Every non-Catholic, every Atheist, everyone who gets married then divorced and remarried, every man or woman who pursues a gay lifestyle, every…masturbater…who fails to repent before they die…(And the list goes on!)…All going into the fire pit! And these are only based on sexual (ish) sins…
And I have to think to myself…Is God really that harsh?
How closely do you think God binds himself to the actual rules of our faith? Because if he did…It’d seem he’d be awfully lonely up in Heaven.

 

[Questionful]

And furthermore…I can’t get past the fact how many people are going to Hell! It just doesn’t make sense! Every non-Catholic, every Atheist, everyone who gets married then divorced and remarried, every man or woman who pursues a gay lifestyle, every…masturbater…who fails to repent before they die…(And the list goes on!)…All going into the fire pit! And these are only based on sexual (ish) sins…
And I have to think to myself…Is God really that harsh?
How closely do you think God binds himself to the actual rules of our faith? Because if he did…It’d seem he’d be awfully lonely up in Heaven.

Nobody but GOD can judge whether or not a soul will be saved.

The Church has taught that those who have lived moral lives in invincible ignorance might possibly be saved. Mortal sins that condemn a person to hell are only mortal when a person does it in full knowledge of it’s gravity. How can one who is not acquainted with the Catholic faith know which sins they commit are mortal?

GOD isn’t harsh. He’s loving.

 

[User_Name_Craig]

Good luck with your journey and may God be with you!!

You’ll never regret freeing yourself of this terrible habbit.

Careful thought because you’ll feel free of its effects and on top of your self mastery, then one day you’ll be feeling week (might be late at night, hard day, could be sick) and then you will be tempted terribly!

Cheers and God Bless
C

 

[Timbothefiveth]

Just don’t give up. Maybe go to mass or read these forums a lot, something to keep you motivated.

 

[edders]

It’s ridiculous to make such a big deal out of masturbation. Yes, it is a sin, but social factors must be taken into account when deciding its severity. The fact that you are not married and therefore have no legitimate outlet for your sexual desires means that masturbation is really only a very minor sin, and certainly not something that would keep you from receiving communion. Just try to cut it down to 1-2 times a week.

Moving forward, perhaps you should try putting so much effort into charity work, for example? God will appreciate this a lot more than your anxiety over masturbation, and it will be a good outlet for your energy!

 

[CentralFLJames]

It’s ridiculous to make such a big deal out of masturbation. Yes, it is a sin, but social factors must be taken into account when deciding its severity. The fact that you are not married and therefore have no legitimate outlet for your sexual desires means that masturbation is really only a very minor sin, and certainly not something that would keep you from receiving communion. Just try to cut it down to 1-2 times a week.

Moving forward, perhaps you should try putting so much effort into charity work, for example? God will appreciate this a lot more than your anxiety over masturbation, and it will be a good outlet for your energy!

Hogwash. How dare you give license to someone to engage in what is gravely immoral conduct and state that is it venial due to cultural concerns.

I suppose you’d tell a person who just couldn’t resist fornicating with his unmarried girlfriend to try to cut it down to just the weekends and then go right ahead to communion and commit a sacrilege?

Do you know that giving support or encouragement to engage in objectively immoral behaviors makes you a participant in those behaviors and that is also grave matter?

If the person has an addiction and loss of freewill ability to discipline himself then that may be a mitigating factor. But these should be discussed with a priest and in the context of the confessional.

James

 

[Timbothefiveth]

Moving forward, perhaps you should try putting so much effort into charity work, for example? God will appreciate this a lot more than your anxiety over masturbation, and it will be a good outlet for your energy!

St Irenaus didn’t write a book entitled “against heresies more than twice a week ”

At Fatima, Mary said

More souls go to hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason." /quote] not “More souls go to hell because of sins of the flesh commited more than twice a week than for any other reason ”

The Lord didn’t tell the Pharisees "Only lust 1 or 2 times a week. Don’t try to stop sinning, I’d rather have you devote that effort to charity ". He firmly condemmed it. Where did He say "only hate people or refuse to forgive them once or twice a week, I’d much rather that you worry about charity ". He didn’t, He spoke out against it.

Charity is good, and may even be a good way to occupy your time which could help fight it, but I somehow doubt the Lord would say to sin just so you might be able to do more charity.

I’d also advise the OP to keep in mind that though it may feel terrible to fight this now, that will go away. Every time it flares up, it will go away.

 

[Bbigam]

Dan,
I’m glad you are keeping up with it even though it’s so hard - and it sure is!

Regarding your concerns about if you slip up, then die in your sleep - remember that contrition is the most important part of confession. If you slipped up and were truly, genuinely sorry and repentant but died before having a chance to go to confession, God is merciful. That said, you do still have to go to confession unless it’s not possible to do so, and this is of course no excuse to go ahead and sin - that would in fact be the additional sin of Presumption.

Have you been to confession very often lately? It helps! You don’t have to have mortal sins to make a good confession. (I’m in RCIA but Father let me do my first general confession early, this past summer, since I’m baptized and understood and wanted to go to confession.)

Keep it up!

 

[OraLabora]

You’ll never regret freeing yourself of this terrible habbit.

Please, a sense of proportion. Whether or not you buy that it is a “grave” sin or not, there are really habits that are far worse.

Occasionally sinning against God in this manner won’t make you dysfunctional but other habits like alcoholism or drug addiction will and may even kill you. And what to say of that terribly filthy habit that can kill you, cigarette smoking. Even gossip, IMHO, is worse as you are hurting someone else.

We would do a lot more for folks if we had continual threads on helping them quit cigarette smoking rather than focusing so much on masturbation.

Learn to live with your conscience, accept that you need Christ’s help along the way, but recognize that we are all sinners and fall short in one way or another and learn to accept yourself as you are while trying to do better even if progress only comes in very tiny increments. A good start would be learning to do without pornography, if that’s an issue, as pornography always has an anonymous victim hidden behind the images. If you could achieve that much, it would be a major victory.

I think the majority of men struggle with this issue to a certain extent, but you can drive yourself crazy through scrupulosity which itself is a sin. We do have a wonderful sacrament for healing even when we are imperfect and fail in our attempts at self-improvement. Use it frequently and sincerely!

 

[Timbothefiveth]

Please, a sense of proportion. Whether or not you buy that it is a “grave” sin or not, there are really habits that are far worse.

Occasionally sinning against God in this manner won’t make you dysfunctional but other habits like alcoholism or drug addiction will and may even kill you. And what to say of that terribly filthy habit that can kill you, cigarette smoking.

Please, a sense of proportion. Alchohol addiction and drugs will kill you slowly, but driving a car through a trailer park when small children are playing at 90 miles an hour is really bad. I hereby propose that we stop worrying about such “grave sins” as crack addiction, and start focusing more on not driving through tralier parks at 90 miles an hour more than twice a week. We would do a lot more if we had continual threads on that

Even gossip, IMHO, is worse as you are hurting someone else.

That’s extremely debatable. St Paul says that sins of the flesh are especially bad because you sin against your own body. I don’t think he says that about even gluttons, which would be the next closest thing to sinning against your own body. 1 corinthians 6:18

Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body.

At Fatima, Mary said that they are the number one reason people go to hell.

.

Learn to live with your conscience, accept that you need Christ’s help along the way, but recognize that we are all sinners and fall short in one way or another and learn to accept yourself as you are while trying to do better even if progress only comes in very tiny increments.

If it comes in large increments that’s much better. None of this advice means it’s a good idea to go mortally sin.

A good start would be learning to do without pornography, if that’s an issue, as pornography always has an anonymous victim hidden behind the images. If you could achieve that much, it would be a major victory.

This is good advice. It will also make fighting masturbation much much easier.

I think the majority of men struggle with this issue to a certain extent, but you can drive yourself crazy through scrupulosity which itself is a sin.

Scrupulosity is not a sin. Can you show me where in the catechism, or anywhere, it says scrupulosity is a sin? I can show you that masturbation is a sin.

We do have a wonderful sacrament for healing even when we are imperfect and fail in our attempts at self-improvement. Use it frequently and sincerely!

The less you need to use it the better. Giving in to sin just because you can confess is if I’m not mistaken a sin itself, presumption.

We would do a lot more for folks if we had continual threads on helping them quit cigarette smoking rather than focusing so much on masturbation.

I don’t think we would. Cigarette smoking is much less common and probably less sinful.

To Pfeffer102, I say keep fighting it. You’ve got the saints, the catechism, and the Lord Himself on your side. You’ll only lose if you let yourself lose.

 

[Elizabeth502]

We would do a lot more for folks if we had continual threads on helping them quit cigarette smoking rather than focusing so much on masturbation.

We could do a lot more for folks if we had fewer of these threads opened, which always seem to have an underlying theme – alternating from either the OP or the responders: ‘I’m going to convince myself that this habit really isn’t so bad.’

Yes it’s bad. And the best thing to do is to quit focusing on it so much. Give it to God and Our Lady. Priests and psychologists both have said that in their experience, focusing on it more leads to a greater obsession with it, which increases its frequency!

 

[Michael1985]

Firstly masturbation never delivers what it promises, in your mind it will always be so good but that actual thing isn’t as good as you imagined it to be. You need to realise that you don’t actually wnat to do it, it won’t be as good as you think it will be. Satan is full of empty promises this is a big one.

I have no doubt that it is a serious sin because of what it does to the way you view women and men. The effects of masturbation do not end when the masturbation ends, I’m certian masturbation changes your view of women and men, it degrades both sexes turning them into objects, instead of people made in the image of God. The effects can last for weeks after mastubation. There are very few sins that I think harm so many people.

 

[TedDC]

I have no doubt that it is a serious sin because of what it does to the way you view women and men. The effects of masturbation do not end when the masturbation ends, I’m certian masturbation changes your view of women and men, it degrades both sexes turning them into objects, instead of people made in the image of God. The effects can last for weeks after mastubation. There are very few sins that I think harm so many people.

Where is your evidence for those statements? I can tell you, in my case, they are most certainly not true.

 

[Pfeffer102]

I have a lot of these to reply to, but I’m short on time…So to the guy two above me, that said it harms many people or something, think of this. A lot of the time, I did it without lusting. Still as bad?

 

[Timbothefiveth]

When you do it without lust, it’s just one sin, albeit probably a mortal one. When you lust that’s another sin. The two combined make each other worse.

 

[Elizabeth502]

For those citing personal experiences as “evidence” that it’s not sinful, I wouldn’t trust such a rationalizing conscience if I were you, since this is where the Devil likes to dwell. As I said on another thread, my personal belief – just a belief based on logic, life experience, & theological understanding – is that the reason Our Lady spoke as she did at Fatima is that sexual behavior is the most (duh!) “fleshy” of all our fallen tendencies, thus most linked with concupiscence. And as I also said elsewhere, it feels good. Anything that feels good is where the Devil finds an opportune place to convince us that “we’re not harming anyone,” (particularly since it feels good). Thus, it is most likely that of all sinful patterns, the sexual ones will be the most prominent among mankind, overall. And if they continue to be indulged and rationalized by the individual, they can lead ultimately to a refusal to see God in His objective truth.

Here is the objective stand of the RCC:
Masturbation is objectively intrinsically evil, as an act. There’s no “opinion” involved as to the gravity of the matter.

And 99% of – certainly Catholics – who engage in it know full well what they’re doing and are thus most likely sinning, because in the vast majority of cases no one’s putting a gun to their heads, nor is it a part of marital foreplay prior to intercourse. (=different topic)

We all have our own weak spots. There have been a lot of non-sexual sinful areas in my life that I formerly — and even recently – thought were “no big deal.” That was not an objective understanding on my part. It was a reflection of a warped understanding, and a failure to see certain things in myself. When you (any of us) participate genuinely in the sacraments more, pray more, spend honest, reflective time more, the objective (and subjective) gravity of your sins will appear in greater clarity. It will become evident how one major distortion in your life limits you spiritually and often practically.

 

[Bbigam]

For those citing personal experiences as “evidence” that it’s not sinful, I wouldn’t trust such a rationalizing conscience if I were you, since this is where the Devil likes to dwell. As I said on another thread, my personal belief – just a belief based on logic, life experience, & theological understanding – is that the reason Our Lady spoke as she did at Fatima is that sexual behavior is the most (duh!) “fleshy” of all our fallen tendencies, thus most linked with concupiscence. And as I also said elsewhere, it feels good. Anything that feels good is where the Devil finds an opportune place to convince us that “we’re not harming anyone,” (particularly since it feels good). Thus, it is most likely that of all sinful patterns, the sexual ones will be the most prominent among mankind, overall. And if they continue to be indulged and rationalized by the individual, they can lead ultimately to a refusal to see God in His objective truth.

Here is the objective stand of the RCC:
Masturbation is objectively intrinsically evil, as an act. There’s no “opinion” involved as to the gravity of the matter.

And 99% of – certainly Catholics – who engage in it know full well what they’re doing and are thus most likely sinning, because in the vast majority of cases no one’s putting a gun to their heads, nor is it a part of marital foreplay prior to intercourse. (=different topic)

We all have our own weak spots. There have been a lot of non-sexual sinful areas in my life that I formerly — and even recently – thought were “no big deal.” That was not an objective understanding on my part. It was a reflection of a warped understanding, and a failure to see certain things in myself. When you (any of us) participate genuinely in the sacraments more, pray more, spend honest, reflective time more, the objective (and subjective) gravity of your sins will appear in greater clarity. It will become evident how one major distortion in your life limits you spiritually and often practically.

Great post! I just want to clarify - and I’m sure you know this - that masturbation is sin, outside of possibly the situations you listed, even if you don’t know that it’s a sin. It may not be mortal in such a case but is still sin, distorted and harmful. (Of course, knowing the Church teaches it’s a sin and refusing to accept it does not lessen culpability!)

 

[TedDC]

For those citing personal experiences as “evidence” that it’s not sinful, I wouldn’t trust such a rationalizing conscience if I were you, since this is where the Devil likes to dwell. As I said on another thread, my personal belief – just a belief based on logic, life experience, & theological understanding – is that the reason Our Lady spoke as she did at Fatima is that sexual behavior is the most (duh!) “fleshy” of all our fallen tendencies, thus most linked with concupiscence. And as I also said elsewhere, it feels good. Anything that feels good is where the Devil finds an opportune place to convince us that “we’re not harming anyone,” (particularly since it feels good). Thus, it is most likely that of all sinful patterns, the sexual ones will be the most prominent among mankind, overall. And if they continue to be indulged and rationalized by the individual, they can lead ultimately to a refusal to see God in His objective truth.

Here is the objective stand of the RCC:
Masturbation is objectively intrinsically evil, as an act. There’s no “opinion” involved as to the gravity of the matter.

And 99% of – certainly Catholics – who engage in it know full well what they’re doing and are thus most likely sinning, because in the vast majority of cases no one’s putting a gun to their heads, nor is it a part of marital foreplay prior to intercourse. (=different topic)

We all have our own weak spots. There have been a lot of non-sexual sinful areas in my life that I formerly — and even recently – thought were “no big deal.” That was not an objective understanding on my part. It was a reflection of a warped understanding, and a failure to see certain things in myself. When you (any of us) participate genuinely in the sacraments more, pray more, spend honest, reflective time more, the objective (and subjective) gravity of your sins will appear in greater clarity. It will become evident how one major distortion in your life limits you spiritually and often practically.

You use the term “objective” several times, yet you don’t state how masturbation is “objectively” wrong or evil. Just because it’s the Church saying so isn’t an explanation. Nor is the implied logic that “because it feels good and isn’ harming anyone, it must be wrong”.

 

[Bbigam]

You use the term “objective” several times, yet you don’t state how masturbation is “objectively” wrong or evil. Just because it’s the Church saying so isn’t an explanation. Nor is the implied logic that “because it feels good and isn’ harming anyone, it must be wrong”.

Sorry I helped get us off track but this thread isn’t supposed to be about whether masturbation is sin. Dan started this thread as a continuation of his journal of attempts to quit doing it. There are plenty of other threads about how/why/if it’s a sin.

 

[Elizabeth502]

You use the term “objective” several times, yet you don’t state how masturbation is “objectively” wrong or evil. Just because it’s the Church saying so isn’t an explanation. Nor is the implied logic that "because it feels good and isn’ harming anyone, it must be wrong".

l did not make the highlighted statement. As for the reasons why it’s wrong, you need to refer to a source other than yourself. Even secularists do not believe that we just invent our own ethics. Secular humanists – as maligned as they often are – actually do ground their ethics in community and tradition, not just their subjective psyches.

Catholic theology & philosophy provide the framework for why the activity is objectively wrong. Read up on it. It has to do with the purpose of sex, which is outward, not inward. It is a complete distortion of the relational purpose of sex. The fact that such a relational purpose is also pleasurable when shared, benefits the biology of the situation (ongoing reproduction of the species). It is a gift to be enjoyed in its legitimate powerful context, not out of context.

And when I’m in a state of sin, I can’t see my sin very objectively. Being in a state of grace illumines and focuses the lens of the soul.