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patrick457
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Hmm, that’s interesting. Source?It would appear that Elizabeth was related to St.Joseph of Arimathae uncle to Mary and latter day guardian of Jesus and Mary - twinc
Hmm, that’s interesting. Source?It would appear that Elizabeth was related to St.Joseph of Arimathae uncle to Mary and latter day guardian of Jesus and Mary - twinc
I was reading the book of Matthew last night and it makes the trip to Egypt sound so casual. Isn’t it a long ways? Aren’t there robbers, sandstorms, and sand people? Where did they stay? Were there hotels in Egypt? What sort of things did they pack along the way probably?To give many people a break from the oft-heated (fiery!) debates of this subforum, I’d like to open this thread. Now by “minor stuff” I mean the small, ‘trivial’ things related to the Bible that never make it in serious high discussion; say, things like “how were Biblical Jews clothed?” or “What was a Roman soldier’s armor like?” or “How did houses look like?” or even “Were there already tallitot in those days?”
Now, does anybody have a suggestion as to what ‘minor’ thingie we shall tackle first? Anyone?![]()
It does, doesn’t it? Well, the distance from Cairo to Bethlehem is approximately 500 km. I picked Cairo because it’s a nice central-ish location in the Nile Delta, but the Holy Family could have chosen any number of tiny villages or big cities like Alexandria (northwest part of the Delta) or Memphis (20 km south of modern Cairo) all across the Delta and Lower (northern) Egypt. So this could have taken them 1-2 months.I was reading the book of Matthew last night and it makes the trip to Egypt sound so casual. Isn’t it a long ways? Aren’t there robbers, sandstorms, and sand people? Where did they stay? Were there hotels in Egypt? What sort of things did they pack along the way probably?
Yes. Joining a caravan is pretty much the main option if you’re a traveller on foot; the chance of danger betiding you is much lower when journeying with other folks than if you were alone.The danger of robbers and sandstorms is probably substantial (of course sand people are either harmless, or robbers), so it is likely that they joined in a trade caravan going down to Egypt, or possibly, did Jews go to the Temple for Hannukah?
Ah, you must remember this though. Identifying these magoi as ‘kings’ is probably an attempt by later Christians to link Old Testament prophecies such as that in Psalm 68:29, 72:10, and Isaiah 60:3 to Jesus (and while we’re at it, no we don’t exactly know whether there were three of them, despite what certain Christmas carols might tell us!): we do know however that this identification was an old one, since St. Caesarius of Arles (d. 542) and the writer of the Syriac work The Cave of Treasures take this idea for granted.We have speculated on these fora before that they supported themselves with the gifts the Magi brought Baby Jesus. Remember these were kings visiting Him, and so they probably did not come just the three of them on one horse each, but more likely a whole entourage with them, and the gifts, as befitting another King, were equally lavish.
Egypt was a natural place to stay if you’re a Jew seeking political asylum. The Roman province of Aegyptus is big enough, and it’s just beside Judaea province.Where did they stay?
An extensive network of temporary lodgings did exist at that time (stopovers and commercial lodgings were at times located at intervals of a day’s journey), though I don’t know how many there were in Egypt.Were there hotels in Egypt?
Just question: why a horse?That just gave me another idea! Joseph probably could have spent some of that gold on a horse and carriage for them. That would cut down the travel time required. They probably had to leave just about everything behind, and so the rest of the gold would have bought them a house and Joseph some new carpentry tools to support them further.
Probably just the necessary stuff: change of clothing, perhaps a bit of food and drink for the journey, and some cash (the gift of the magi comes in handy here).What sort of things did they pack along the way probably?
I read a book by a rabbi once that speculated the Lord forced/permitted his people to wander for forty years so that two generations would be born and very few who entered the Promised Land would have personal memories of having been slaves in Egypt.Here’s a really short, minor nitpick:
God did not punish the Israelites with forty years’ wandering because of the sin of the Golden Calf - contrary to Cecil B. DeMille! (At least, it was not the main reason for that).
Hmm, interesting indeed.I read a book by a rabbi once that speculated the Lord forced/permitted his people to wander for forty years so that two generations would be born and very few who entered the Promised Land would have personal memories of having been slaves in Egypt.
Place in the “Interesting if True” file.
Probably just my western bias poking throughJust question: why a horse?![]()
But then again, come to think of it…the Holy Family astride a fiery (figuratively, not literallyProbably just my western bias poking through
I guess a donkey would have been a more readily available animal.
Yep, mainly because of the ten out of the twelve spies sent to observe Canaan, except Joshua and Caleb. God is in effect saying: “You don’t want to go in the land I promised you, then? Then you won’t.” Thus the Israelites wandered for forty years - one year for each day the spies scouted Canaan - in the desert until all those who complained (those who did not want to go) finally died.Re: wandering 40 years…
So it wasn’t because of the golden calf, but because of them complaining against God? Is that what I’m to understand from that from Numbers. Thank you
surely they were not as wise as serpents and gentle as doves as we are commanded to be - twincBased on their dialogues between them, Pharisees and Sadducees are usually seen as very hostile towards Jesus, and Him being hostile towards them. But I heard somewhere that this is a rather false tradition, and that in fact, the dialogues, when properly translated and interpreted, aren’t really hostile at all. For instance, Jesus calling them ‘snakes’ isn’t so much as swearing but a (ironic) remark to them considering themselves as ‘cunning as snakes’ or something.
Who knows more about this?
Hmm, you bring up something interesting here. We’ll look it up!Based on their dialogues between them, Pharisees and Sadducees are usually seen as very hostile towards Jesus, and Him being hostile towards them. But I heard somewhere that this is a rather false tradition, and that in fact, the dialogues, when properly translated and interpreted, aren’t really hostile at all. For instance, Jesus calling them ‘snakes’ isn’t so much as swearing but a (ironic) remark to them considering themselves as ‘cunning as snakes’ or something.
Who knows more about this?