The Missing Passover

[Ben_Masada]

Well, clearly this Passover is still missing. I was hoping by now it would have been found.

** Yes Wolfgang, tell them to stop their nonsense. That’s exactly as the title of the thread goes. Jesus missed that Passover. He never celebrated that Passover. Christians can tear themselves apart trying to solve that blunder of the gospel writers or just proclaim themselves free and out of so much confusion.**

 

[Ben_Masada]

Hello, Ben Masada. It may be of interest to followers and participants in your thread
to have some understanding of Kaddish.

2/3 down the following webpage: see Kaddish

jewfaq.org/death.htm

Best wishes,

reen12

Thank you for the webpage. The best sentence was that,
Kadish has nothing to do with death or mourning. Therefore, it is not a prayer for the dead.

 

[wolfgang]

 

[ralphinal]

How about the Catholics, are they not supposed to respect
the guests? I have been called a liar here many times. Is this respect? I think this is a Catholic way to evade the issue that they are unable to refute. A really low punch, don’t you think so?

Whoever called you a lier was wrong for doing so.

However, you have yet to refute anything. You argue about it, promising to refute it, then you belittle the one who called it into question. If pressed, you will allege that you are inherently smarter because you are Jewish then ignore the topic altogether.

Now, you had said before that you can PROVE that Jesus did not follow the Essene calendar, which in 30 A.D,. did have thier passover before the others.

You said you could PROVE that JEsus was married to Mary Magdalene.

You said you could PROVE that Paul invented Jesus Christ.

I am patiently waiting for these proofs.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

How about the Catholics, are they not supposed to respect
the guests? I have been called a liar here many times. Is this respect? I think this is a Catholic way to evade the issue that they are unable to refute. A really low punch, don’t you think so?

So the actions of a few is justification for you to act the same way?

In reference to “evading” issues, I noticed you never responded to my last two posts. Am I to assume you’re evading? I realize you have a lot of people coming at you at once, but you have to realize you outnumbered yourself by coming here and telling Catholics their faith is wrong. Did you not expect some strong opposition?

Try to be more respectful of the Catholic faith and maybe your message will be a little more well received. Another thing you might try, is to try one discussion at a time instead of starting multiple threads, with titles you seem to word to inflame Christians.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

** Yes Wolfgang, tell them to stop their nonsense. That’s exactly as the title of the thread goes. Jesus missed that Passover. He never celebrated that Passover. Christians can tear themselves apart trying to solve that blunder of the gospel writers or just proclaim themselves free and out of so much confusion.**

Jesus’ hour had come. He did not miss the Passover, He fulfilled it with a new covenant. Now, I realize you don’t believe that, but that’s the difference between Jews and Christians.

Now, let me ask you an honest question. Did you come here to learn about the Catholic faith, or did you come here in an attempt to plant seeds of doubts in hopes of converting Christians to Judaism?

 

[adrift]

How about the Catholics, are they not supposed to respect
the guests? I have been called a liar here many times. Is this respect? I think this is a Catholic way to evade the issue that they are unable to refute. A really low punch, don’t you think so?

You protest because your are a guest? most everyone here is a guest. What guess insults his host

Jesus was a Jewish man, and according to Judaism there is no such a thing as Greek Mythology. To spread around that he was son of God, without a human father, is the worst lie in the History of the world, and you are spreading it here and everywhere. Should I continue? I don’t think so. The post will be too long. The NT is loaded with them.

and then complains that he was called a liar at the same time calling others liars. It is your opinion only that this is a Greek Myth. Jesus rose from the dead. That is truth. Jesus is God. You try to limit Him to your human modern understanding. Some of your claims are outlandish like when you said names don’t mean anything. You made that claim only because, I believe, that you want to disprove anything we might say. So if we say anything you knee jerk disagree. You want to present yourself as an authority of Judaism. “I am a Jewish man” so everything I do all Jewish men do throughout history. Such a thought is false. You do not live as Abraham did. Nor do you live as Annas did. You claim things Jewish thought without substantiation. If you don’t like being called a liar, don’t say that we are spreading lies. That you do not believe is sad but that you try to diminish our beliefs is sadder.

 

[Ben_Masada]

And thank you for ignoring the CONTENT of the post. Am I incorrect about the Essenes? Why resort to ignoring the information to say that I should not be telling you Jewish history without replying to the statement.

But, so you will know…
essene.com/
centuryone.org/essene.html

Oh, no, the Essenes were on a different calender.

From the second website

So, now, please enlighten me as to how it was impossible for Jesus to celebrate the Passover at a different date when he would have been doing so along the Essene calender.

**I think I have enlightened you even more than several times on this matter. But it seems to me you are too opaque to get it.

Even if the Essenes used a different calendar, let’s say the solar calendar, the 14th of Nisan would ALWAYS fall much later and NEVER before the 14th of Nisan in the lunar calendar. Therefore, they would celebrate always after the regular Jeish population.

The blunder of the gospel writers lwas that they set Jesus with his disciples celebrating the Passover on the 13th of Nisan, and it just didn’t happen. They fabricated their own spider’s web to get stuck in it. That’s all. **

 

[ralphinal]

**I think I have enlightened you even more than several times on this matter. But it seems to me you are too opaque to get it.

Even if the Essenes used a different calendar, let’s say the solar calendar, the 14th of Nisan would ALWAYS fall much later and NEVER before the 14th of Nisan in the lunar calendar. Therefore, they would celebrate always after the regular Jeish population.

The blunder of the gospel writers lwas that they set Jesus with his disciples celebrating the Passover on the 13th of Nisan, and it just didn’t happen. They fabricated their own spider’s web to get stuck in it. That’s all. **

WRONG!!!

I posted a link that had a breakdown of when the 14th of Nissan would have fallen between 28 and 35 A.D. on both calendars. The Essenes had it FIRST in 30 A.D.

Sorry, Ben.

So you can learn, I will put it back up here.
star.wind.mystarband.net/bib/essene_passover_dates.html

And here is another one that supports it
geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/3511/calendar.html

Ben, please show me where these are incorrect.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Jesus’ hour had come. He did not miss the Passover, He fulfilled it with a new covenant. Now, I realize you don’t believe that, but that’s the difference between Jews and Christians.

Now, let me ask you an honest question. Did you come here to learn about the Catholic faith, or did you come here in an attempt to plant seeds of doubts in hopes of converting Christians to Judaism?

**What happened? Have you too lost the hope to convert me?
That’s how missionaries work. They start so bsequious and very touchy as long as there is a chance to convert one who comes to the forum. When they see that they don’t have what it takes, the first thing they want is for the prospect to disappear from the Forum.

Tell me, do you remember what is written in Isaiah 42:6? If you don’t, I’ll tell you here. The Prophet says in there that Israel was given as light unto the Gentiles. Now, to answer your question, doubt is compared to darkness. So, I didn’t come here to plant seeds of doubt but to bring some of the light Israel was given as. This of converting you, or you me, it comes from above.**

 

[Ben_Masada]

WRONG!!!

I posted a link that had a breakdown of when the 14th of Nissan would have fallen between 28 and 35 A.D. on both calendars. The Essenes had it FIRST in 30 A.D.

Sorry, Ben.

So you can learn, I will put it back up here.
star.wind.mystarband.net/bib/essene_passover_dates.html

And here is another one that supports it
geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/3511/calendar.html

Ben, please show me where these are incorrect.

Okay, I read both websites. Thank you for having confirmed my point that the 14th of Nisan in the lunar calendar always falls much before the one in the solar calendar. Isn’t it the issue here? And there is no problem with celebrating the Passover after its time, but never before. The blunder of the gospel writer was to set Jesus with his disciples celebrating it before. That’s all. Even according to the lunar calendar, if one cannot celebrate on the 14th of Nisan, it’s okay to celebrate afterwards.

 

[Ben_Masada]

You protest because your are a guest?

 

[adrift]

adrift;5125178:

I have never called anyone a liar, unless after I am called so.

We are talking about the House of Israel. There is no such a thing in Judaism as a man being God. Are you crazy or thinking I am crazy? Jesus was a Jewish man and I am a member of his Faith, which was Judaism. So, the credibility is with me and not with you.

Listen, you bring Hellenistic innovations into Judaism and you don’t want the Jew to defend it? That’s funny!

And when a Gentile says that Greek Mythology can be inserted into Judaism is not false! Is it what you trying to tell me?

Listen my friend, anything not Jewish said about a religious Jew, as Jesus was, is not true. And not being true is a lie. That’s simple Logic. I am sorry if you don’t understand Logic.
Logic? No, opinion. You are trying to make God operate under what you think He should. It is not logical to put God in a box. It is your opinion what is Jewish and what is not. Provide backing that shows how first century Jews believed. The credibility is not with you just because you make an unsubstantiated claim and that is all that you do. I am a Jewish man so I know is not credible and goes against logic. The fact that Jews thought that names are important is Hellenistic innovations? That comes from you being a Jew? That is not very convincing that you know anything about being a Jew. As I have told you before, I have asked my Jewish friends about your statements and they disagree with you. So you are not representative of all Jews. You think that you can come and make charges against our faith and we won’t defend as you said that is funny.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

**What happened? Have you too lost the hope to convert me?
That’s how missionaries work. They start so bsequious and very touchy as long as there is a chance to convert one who comes to the forum. When they see that they don’t have what it takes, the first thing they want is for the prospect to disappear from the Forum.

Tell me, do you remember what is written in Isaiah 42:6? If you don’t, I’ll tell you here. The Prophet says in there that Israel was given as light unto the Gentiles. Now, to answer your question, doubt is compared to darkness. So, I didn’t come here to plant seeds of doubt but to bring some of the light Israel was given as. This of converting you, or you me, it comes from above.**

I had no intentions of converting anyone. As you say, “it comes from above”. Missionaries go out, as you have come here…

Isaiah 42:6 was fulfilled in the “new” Israel, but Jews rejected Him.

I don’t want you to disappear from the forums. It would be nice if you would consider your phrasing, so you might be more respectful of our faith. Maybe then we could enter into a real dialogue.

By the way, I notice you’re still picking and choosing what you will and will not address in this thread. Several posts have been brought back to your attention after your accusations of evading…

 

[ralphinal]

Okay, I read both websites. Thank you for having confirmed my point that the 14th of Nisan in the lunar calendar always falls much before the one in the solar calendar. Isn’t it the issue here? And there is no problem with celebrating the Passover after its time, but never before. The blunder of the gospel writer was to set Jesus with his disciples celebrating it before. That’s all. Even according to the lunar calendar, if one cannot celebrate on the 14th of Nisan, it’s okay to celebrate afterwards.

Ben, there is NO way that you read both websites and then posted that.

I will post the passage in quesiton

The point of the analysis below is to illustrate that only in A.D. 30 did the Essene Passover Eve fall 1 day before the Jewish Passover Eve. In all other years the Essene Passover Eve fell in a different week or fell after (not before) the Jewish Passover.

Consequently, A.D. 30 is the only year in which Jesus and His disciples could observe the Essene Passover exactly one day before the Jews and Pharisees etc. observe the Jewish Passover, and hence A.D. 30 is the only year in which Jesus could both observe Passover in the upper room and then Himself be the sacrificial Passover Lamb of God the following day on Jewish Passover.

Now, please explain to me how this says that the Essene is ALWAYS after the other calendar…

In fact, if you really read the whole site, there are other years where the Essene dates were a WEEK before. Again, how is a week before AWAYS after?

Please check yourself before you wreck yourself

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben, there is NO way that you read both websites and then posted that.

I will post the passage in quesiton

Now, please explain to me how this says that the Essene is ALWAYS after the other calendar…

In fact, if you really read the whole site, there are other years where the Essene dates were a WEEK before. Again, how is a week before AWAYS after?

Please check yourself before you wreck yourself

**First of all, things don’t have to be the way people with preconceived notions want them to be. Everyone with the minimum of commonsense can see the conspiracy of whoever wrote that blog about the calendars to bring exactly year 30 into becoming the only one when they claim the 14th of Nisan of the solar calendar before the lunar calendar. There is no logic to it.

Now, as an explanation that the solar calendar brings the 14th of Nisan ALWAYS much after the lunar calendar. As we all know, the lunar calendar is shorter for several days than the solar calendar. That’s why to make up for the difference, we have added a extra month called Adar at the end of the year. Therefore, it’s logically impossible that the 14th of Nisan in the solar calendar would ever fall before the lunar calendar, but ALWAYS afterwards. That’s all.**

 

[ralphinal]

**First of all, things don’t have to be the way people with preconceived notions want them to be. Everyone with the minimum of commonsense can see the conspiracy of whoever wrote that blog about the calendars to bring exactly year 30 into becoming the only one when they claim the 14th of Nisan of the solar calendar before the lunar calendar. There is no logic to it.

Now, as an explanation that the solar calendar brings the 14th of Nisan ALWAYS much after the lunar calendar. As we all know, the lunar calendar is shorter for several days than the solar calendar. That’s why to make up for the difference, we have added a extra month called Adar at the end of the year. Therefore, it’s logically impossible that the 14th of Nisan in the solar calendar would ever fall before the lunar calendar, but ALWAYS afterwards. That’s all.**

Again, the calendar was not 100% solar. The dating was based on the Spring Equinox. If you were to read the chart, it breaks it down according to Julian, Gregorian, Essene, and Jewish dating.

How is not always after the same as always after? It is not. Can you disproove the information on that Chart? If the Essene year ALWAYS started their year on the Vernal Equinox and called it Wednesday, how is it impossible that, every now and then, the Essenes would be before the Jewish date? It is not.

Ben, your refusal to consider that you are wrong is showing. Please consider being more of a scholar and less of a demigog.

 

[Ben_Masada]

I had no intentions of converting anyone. As you say, “it comes from above”. Missionaries go out, as you have come here…

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Prodigal Son1;5127454:

**Sorry, but that’s a cop-out. Every single one here is a missionary at heart. There is nothing better than to succeed to make one adopt your views. **

.

I’m sorry if you do not accept what I say. Is what you’re saying above, an admission that you’re here to convert people to Judaism? It certainly appears so.

**We never rejected God. Read Psalm 44:10-23. **

Jer 31:31 Behold the days shall come, saith the Lord, and I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Juda:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, the covenant which they made void, and I had dominion over them, saith the Lord.
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, after those days, saith the Lord: I will give my law in their bowels, and I will write it in their heart: and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying: Know the Lord: for all shall know me from the least of them even to the greatest, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Psa 118:22 The stone which the builders rejected; the same is become the head of the corner.

Mat 21:42 Jesus saith to them: Have you never read in the Scriptures: The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? By the Lord this has been done; and it is wonderful in our eyes.
Mat 21:43 Therefore I say to you that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and shall be given to a nation yielding the fruits thereof.

My way is not lack of respect. The accusation comes from outside when one cannot debate my views.

You can debate your views without the disrespectful attack on our views, in my opinion.

I always give a reply to all comments to my posts. If I miss some, probably it’s because I have another life to live. I have a full time job which takes 8 hours of my day.

To use the words of another poster, “that’s a cop-out”.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Again, the calendar was not 100% solar. The dating was based on the Spring Equinox. If you were to read the chart, it breaks it down according to Julian, Gregorian, Essene, and Jewish dating.

How is not always after the same as always after? It is not. Can you disproove the information on that Chart? If the Essene year ALWAYS started their year on the Vernal Equinox and called it Wednesday, how is it impossible that, every now and then, the Essenes would be before the Jewish date? It is not.

Ben, your refusal to consider that you are wrong is showing. Please consider being more of a scholar and less of a demigog.

The point is that I don’t see any truth in the links you asked me to read. They are opinions of Gentiles with the preconceived notion and purpose to discredit 4,000 years of a Jewish custom. We are talking about Judaism and Jewish People. And there was no reason at all for Jesus to use any other calendar different from the calendar used by the greater Jewish population. Every year he would come up to Jerusalem with his parents to celebrate Passover on the 14th of Nisan with everyone else. Why would he decide to use the 13th of Nisan to celebrate in the year 30? That’s foul play by Gentile conspiracy.