The Missing Passover

[Jamison97]

I thought he died in 2 AD, forgive me if I’m wrong.

 

[kalt]

Hi, Lapell,

While remaining calm is usually good advice … it is especially valuable now. Ben is just baiting you. The higher you jump the more he evades. Truly, he will evade until he is before the White Throne - and, then… his evasion, deception and anti-Catholicism will simply evaporate…and, we will all be there to see it.

Truly… relax… and, I would not bother to respond to any more of Ben’s baiting - to him this is a game, to us it is serious. So, be serious - and just seriously ignore him.

God bless

I will echo this advice. Ben has no intention of ever providing proof for the claims he makes. He seems to believe that “I am Jewish” is proof enough, and that is the only “evidences” you will get.

We really need to stop feeding him.

 

[Ben_Masada]

If Ben Masada really means to witness for the real Truth he won’t be afraid to answer my questions directly, don’t worry!
Please relax, Simon!

Go ahead and put up the question but with a viable quotation to substanciate it. Nonsense has a tendence to weary researchers.

 

[Ben_Masada]

I thought he died in 2 AD, forgive me if I’m wrong.

I absolve you. You are forgiven.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Also, don’t you believe that every Jew, even among the poor, knew when the Passover would begin? It’s the Apostles who ask Jesus where he wanted to spend the Passover? If they would spend it a day too soon, I am sure that they would not let it pass without saying anything!

**Lapel, tell me, are you trying to empty the ocean with a glass into a hole on the beach? Do you think we Jews know when Passover is supposed to begin? We know it for over four thousand years. The 14th of Nisan in the year 30 CE fell on the evening of that Friday, when Jesus was in the tomb. It means that the day the gospel writers set Jesus with his disciples to celebrate the Passover meal was Thursday evening. Therefore, the 13th of Nisan. Against Jewish laws about festival customs. Possible afterwards, even a month after. But before, even a day it would be against the law. There is nothing else you can do to defend the ignorance of the gospel writers. I am sorry, but there is nothing to help you.

Ben: **

 

[Ben_Masada]

How are you absolutely sure that the Passover in 30 CE started on Friday night and not Thursday? The Gospel doesn’t say a thing about the Last Supper having been held on the eve of the 13th of Nissan.
Moreover, the Passover lasts eight (8) days, not just one day!
Also, isn’t there something special happening on the Sabbath during Passover every year?

Lapel, why are you doing this? Do you want me to give in and say that you won this one? Tell me and I will. I am getting weary of the same questions over and over again. Read John 19:31. It says in there that that Sabbath was a solemn or high Sabbath. That’s the Sabbath which coincides with a festival, and that was the first day of Passover. We call in Hebrew Shabbaton. If you read all the gospel writers about the Passover Supper, they all set Jesus with his disciples to celebrate it on the evening of Thursday, 13th of Nisan. If you don’t believe me, I understand; but suppose that you do not understand such a simple thing in the gospels, is inadmissible. I am sorry.

 

[Ben_Masada]

You still haven’t answered me, Ben!
Your being Jewish, and probably an Orthodox one, doesn’t in itself explain everything! Even you Jews have to do some research to answer questions properly. Again, how are you so sure? Where did you get the information about this? If your sources are many, would that be a problem? Or did you come to this knowledge by an inner revelation coming from God? Are you afraid to answer more explicitly. I thought that true witnesses would not mind telling the truth even about their sources.
For instance, what I said about Sabbath having special things in it in every Passover comes from a book on Judaism by Gugenheim.

A Sabbath is special only when a festival falls on it. I think I have told you this more than several times. And regarding how I have come to this kind of knowledge, I am not going to tell you that it was by an inner revelation because I know the implications of such a declaration. But I’ll give you a hint. Have you ever in your life heard of a Jew to do what I do to bring this knowledge of the NT to Christians? I don’t think so. They even abhor the presence of a NT in their home. That’s enough. I can’t go any further on how I have got the knowledge and the spirit to handle this subject as I do. If it hasn’t impressed you so far, it’s probably because you don’t have an ear for the call from above.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Do you mean to say that a rabbi who remains single simply can’t exist in Judaism? don’t you have Jews who live the celibacy?

**Just about. Even if one gets widower or divorced, he is urged to remarry if he is still not too old, in order to survive as a Rabbi. **

 

[Lapell]

A Sabbath is special only when a festival falls on it. I think I have told you this more than several times.

O.K., Ben, I acknowledge it. And I am afraid that I mixed up a few things concerning the Sabbath during Passover, and the duration of Passover in 7 days, not 8! (My, this memory of mine, though still good enough, does play me tricks at times.) At least, I didn’t lie, since this was involuntary. But what an inconvenience! That doesn’t make me an adversary of the Truth, though! O.K.?

 

[Lapell]

Have you ever in your life heard of a Jew to do what I do to bring this knowledge of the NT to Christians? I don’t think so. They even abhor the presence of a NT in their home. That’s enough. I can’t go any further on how I have got the knowledge and the spirit to handle this subject as I do. If it hasn’t impressed you so far, it’s probably because you don’t have an ear for the call from above.

Hum! I think I do, Ben! Since you are in Israel… you must have known of the late André Chouraqui, who translated the Bible, the Qur’an and the New Testament (yes, even the New Testament) in a French full of hebraisms to give us somehow the flavour of the Hebrew way of conceiving things. Speaking of which…

 

[Lapell]

Maybe I quoted a bit too long, Ben. I am French, so I have to adjust when I think in English. I should have said: “I think I have” rather than “do” (known of a Jew dealing with the New Testament)…

 

[Lapell]

Read John 19:31. It says in there that that Sabbath was a solemn or high Sabbath. That’s the Sabbath which coincides with a festival, and that was the first day of Passover. We call in Hebrew Shabbaton. If you read all the gospel writers about the Passover Supper, they all set Jesus with his disciples to celebrate it on the evening of Thursday, 13th of Nisan. If you don’t believe me, I understand; but suppose that you do not understand such a simple thing in the gospels, is inadmissible. I am sorry.

Hmm… Is the 1st day of Passover the only great day of Passover? What about the 2nd day? Is that one day not an important day also?
And isn’t any day of Passover important, even though the 1st day is more solemn than the rest? I understand from Gugenheim’s book that the last two days are also quite important, even though they are not as solemn…

 

[Lapell]

**Just about. Even if one gets widower or divorced, he is urged to remarry if he is still not too old, in order to survive as a Rabbi. **

“In order to survive as a Rabbi”… and he is urged by whom? His congregation? The Jewish religious authorities?
If it’s “in order to survive”, this may explain, in a Christian mind, why Jesus didn’t get married…

 

[Lapell]

Have you ever in your life heard of a Jew to do what I do to bring this knowledge of the NT to Christians? I can’t go any further on how I have got the knowledge and the spirit to handle this subject as I do. If it hasn’t impressed you so far, it’s probably because you don’t have an ear for the call from above.

The problem is that one can be so eager to answer what he thinks to be a “call from above” that he might not think to be prudent enough to see that it’s not a call from God’s adversary himself! Satan can disguise himself into an angel of light, you know…

 

[Lapell]

The first three Gospels are unanimous in saying that the Last Supper took place on the first day of Passover. The Gospel according to John having been written much later didn’t have to repeat this.

 

[Lapell]

It seems to me that being a non-denominational Jew, you feel you can be the Israel Finkelstein of Scripture interpretation (in the NT, I mean), with a reasoning as approximate as Carbon-14 dating… under the disguise of a precise one to outsiders. But as Carbon-14 dating has proved to be not as precise as originally was thought to be, so your line of thinking when it comes to the NT.
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have other things to do. Good Shabbat!

 

[TracyJ]

**Where does it say that he was NOT married? I assure you at least, that more are the evidences that he was married than that he was not.

Ben: **

I’m enjoyed this dialogue and I know little about the topics, but I’ve always been
confused about the prayer that says “he arose again on the THIRD day”
If Jesus died on Friday at three isn’t three days later Monday?
Fri to Sat at 3 = day one
Sat to Sun at 3 - day two
Sun to 3PM Monday- day three.

I have read Asimov’s guide to the NT and he makes some legitimate points.
I see no reason for any arguments, there are things that people accept on Faith.
To me, the NT is to introduce us to Jesus and to give us some guidelines about our
behavior.
But while everything is nice and straight forward suddenly we wind up with John’s acid
trip that makes no sense, or MAYBE the interpreters were tired and failed to do their
job properly.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Hmm… Is the 1st day of Passover the only great day of Passover? What about the 2nd day? Is that one day not an important day also?
And isn’t any day of Passover important, even though the 1st day is more solemn than the rest? I understand from Gugenheim’s book that the last two days are also quite important, even though they are not as solemn…

**The first day of Passover is the most important one because of the Passover Feast on the 14th of Nisan. And especially that year, which fell on the Sabbath, making of it a Shabbaton or solemn Sabbath. The second important day is the last; although not as important as the first. The other days in between are regular days. What your friend said about last two days, it’s because in the Diaspora they keep two first days and two last days. But in Israel is just one in the beginning and one in the end. However, Passover Supper is just one on the first day, which is the 14th of Nisan.

Ben:**

 

[TracyJ]

**Lapel, tell me, are you trying to empty the ocean with a glass into a hole on the beach? Do you think we Jews know when Passover is supposed to begin? We know it for over four thousand years. The 14th of Nisan in the year 30 CE fell on the evening of that Friday, when Jesus was in the tomb. It means that the day the gospel writers set Jesus with his disciples to celebrate the Passover meal was Thursday evening. Therefore, the 13th of Nisan. Against Jewish laws about festival customs. Possible afterwards, even a month after. But before, even a day it would be against the law. There is nothing else you can do to defend the ignorance of the gospel writers. I am sorry, but there is nothing to help you.

Ben: **

But Ben, the notion that Jesus was at a Passover supper is one that I was never taught!
I’ve known that he was at the LAST supper and the Passover allusion doesn’t appear, to my knowledge, in the NT.
Who said it was a Passover dinner?

 

[kalt]

I’m enjoyed this dialogue and I know little about the topics, but I’ve always been
confused about the prayer that says “he arose again on the THIRD day”
If Jesus died on Friday at three isn’t three days later Monday?
Fri to Sat at 3 = day one
Sat to Sun at 3 - day two
Sun to 3PM Monday- day three.

I have read Asimov’s guide to the NT and he makes some legitimate points.
I see no reason for any arguments, there are things that people accept on Faith.
To me, the NT is to introduce us to Jesus and to give us some guidelines about our
behavior.
But while everything is nice and straight forward suddenly we wind up with John’s acid
trip that makes no sense, or MAYBE the interpreters were tired and failed to do their
job properly.

Friday is the 1st day. Sunday is the 3rd. Jesus was put in the tomb on Friday - the 1st day. We rose on Sunday - the 3rd day.

We calculate other things this way, too. It’s not unusual.