The Missing Passover

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To affirm something so positively, you must be able, I take it, to define your terms quite precisely, must you not?
I have done so more than several times, but you get back over and over again on the same questions. I am going to repeat just one of many. If you prove me wrong, I will show you another. There is no such a thing in Judaism as a man being conceived by a woman without a human father. Only in Greek Mythology. Where did they get the idea that Jesus was born without a human father, if not in Greek Mythology? Now, I am all years.
 
Ben Masada;5167050:
Hum… you might be right on this one verse… but he also says the same thing to his own disciples, when Jesus’ teachings have brought their share of opposition… He also said: “I am the light of the world”. And the way he said that, I doubt all Jews would have agreed with him then!
Here, you have met a Jew who agrees with Jesus on that one. Why? Because I am 101 percent sure that he was speaking on behalf of the People. He was a learnt Jew. He knew that the People had been assigned as light unto the nations
and not a Jew in particular. I can very well say that I am the light of the world if I am speaking as a member of the People of Israel.
 
If the whole of the Jewish people indifferently is accused of having killed Jesus, then yes. If the accusation is restricted to those who shouted “Crucify him! Crucify him!” and more specifically to those who stirred them to do so, then why should I think it to be specifically antisemite, eh? And the one(s?) who wrote The Protocol of the Sages of Zion has (have?) much to be credited for much of all the mob reactions against the Jewish people as a whole. Why do you keep condemning the whole of the Catholic Church, sir?
I do not codemn anyone or anything. I just defend Judaism.
 
It’s only natural and does stand the reason, that a Jewish understand of a Jewish behavior has much more credibility than a Gentile understand of a Jewish behavior. Being the opposite also true of course.
Ben, although generally true, this statement is not necessarily a universal truth. Consider Alexis de Tocqueville, who wrote possibly the most penetrating analysis of the American character, despite his being a visiting Frenchman. Also, consider that the early church was Jewish. In other words, a large part of the Church’s understanding of the Jewish nature of the New Testament is informed by the Church’s early history as a group of Jewish believers.

Regards,
SteveLohr
 
**You are not focused when you read. I did not say that Heavens is here on earth. I said that Heavens is what we make to each other here on earth. It means that it could be also hell.

You are right when you say that I don’t believe in the O.T. I don’t even believe there was ever a O.T. I believe in the Tanach or Hebrew Scriptures. O.T. is a misnomer that gives off the idea of Replacement Theology.

Oh! You are one of those who believe in talking snake? The whole Genesis account of Creation is an allegory. Not only you but all of us will be with Jesus soon or later, which is the grave. That’s the real heaven. Eternal rest.**Ever read the parable Jesus told about the poor Lazarus and the rich man? (Luke 16, 19-31) If there is no Resurrection, why did Jesus tell this story? And why did He tell the people about a Last Judgment, mmh?
 
Lapell;5225305:
Here, you have met a Jew who agrees with Jesus on that one. Why? Because I am 101 percent sure that he was speaking on behalf of the People. He was a learnt Jew. He knew that the People had been assigned as light unto the nations
and not a Jew in particular. I can very well say that I am the light of the world if I am speaking as a member of the People of Israel.
Except that you don’t necessarily agree with many other Orthodox Jews on a good number of issues, the afterlife obviously being one of them…
 
Now, back to the topic of this thread… how was your Passover this year?
 
It’s only natural and does stand the reason, that a Jewish understand of a Jewish behavior has much more credibility than a Gentile understand of a Jewish behavior. Being the opposite also true of course.
It depends, even when you are a Jew. Aren’t there many kind of behaviour even from one Jew to another? Hillel, for instance, would kindly answer even to smart alecks, while Shammai would rudely dismiss the smart alecks because he couldn"t suffer the fools. Both were Jews. And they were both Jewish rabbis…
As for telling a “Gentile” behaviour from a “Jewish” behaviour, except for some things that I know Jews would do, and this supposes that I would know some living Jews of course, I don’t think I would be able to tell, really!
Also does an Ashkenazi Jew tell all the details of a Sephardi Jew’s behaviour as being specifically Jewish, even though some of them might look weird to him or her? Or vice-versa?
And what about a Conservative Jew when he considers the behaviour of an Orthodox Jew? Or that of a Reform Jew? Or the Chassidim?
 
Paul and the gospel writers paint a Jesus so typical of a Greek Gentile that perhaps not even 20 percent can be said of being Jewish in him.
And what is so “typical” of a Greek Gentile in their depiction of Jesus? The Greek people don’t perform miracles, from what I know of them…
 
:rotfl::rotfl:
**That’s all Jews need now, is for Gentiles to tell them about Jewish behaviour, laws and customs. The Essenes were even more strict than regular Jews. Nice try though. It means you are trying to defend your church.

Ben: 👍**
HI Ben! that was a good one and so biblical, you are right.
 
Ben, although generally true, this statement is not necessarily a universal truth. Consider Alexis de Tocqueville, who wrote possibly the most penetrating analysis of the American character, despite his being a visiting Frenchman. Also, consider that the early church was Jewish. In other words, a large part of the Church’s understanding of the Jewish nature of the New Testament is informed by the Church’s early history as a group of Jewish believers.

Regards,
SteveLohr
Yes, I uderstand what you mean, but the early followers of Jesus did not congregate in churches but in synagogues. I mean to imply that the use of churches started with Paul, who was a Hellenistic former Jew.
 
Ever read the parable Jesus told about the poor Lazarus and the rich man? (Luke 16, 19-31) If there is no Resurrection, why did Jesus tell this story? And why did He tell the people about a Last Judgment, mmh?
**Everything is possible in parables, as it is in visions and dreams. Parables give the teller all freedom. But, let me tell you that the aim of Jesus in that parable was not to teach anything about heaven or hell, but about the permanence of the Law. He presented Moses as the only escape out of Hell. That parable is almost a continuation of Matthew 5:17-19. **
 
Ben Masada;5231486:
Except that you don’t necessarily agree with many other Orthodox Jews on a good number of issues, the afterlife obviously being one of them…
We have also non-enlightened people among us too. Did you think all Jews know the Scriptures?
 
Now, back to the topic of this thread… how was your Passover this year?
Great Lapell! But remember, it fell as usual on the 14th of Nisan. Only that at this time it was not a Shabbaton, because the day was not a Sabbath.
 
It depends, even when you are a Jew. Aren’t there many kind of behaviour even from one Jew to another? Hillel, for instance, would kindly answer even to smart alecks, while Shammai would rudely dismiss the smart alecks because he couldn"t suffer the fools. Both were Jews. And they were both Jewish rabbis…
As for telling a “Gentile” behaviour from a “Jewish” behaviour, except for some things that I know Jews would do, and this supposes that I would know some living Jews of course, I don’t think I would be able to tell, really!
Also does an Ashkenazi Jew tell all the details of a Sephardi Jew’s behaviour as being specifically Jewish, even though some of them might look weird to him or her? Or vice-versa?
And what about a Conservative Jew when he considers the behaviour of an Orthodox Jew? Or that of a Reform Jew? Or the Chassidim?
Yes, apart from the visible appearance, it would be kind of hard for you to tell the difference. I can tell the difference even between two Jews within the Hassidic Movement.
 
And what is so “typical” of a Greek Gentile in their depiction of Jesus? The Greek people don’t perform miracles, from what I know of them…
How do you know that the Greek people don’t perform miracles? What’s the big deal about making miracles? So, you believe in miracles, don’t you? Do you know why? Because you have never witnessed one. That’s what miracles are: The stuff faith is made of. The real miracle is just another name for the breathing of Nature.
 
**Everything is possible in parables, as it is in visions and dreams. Parables give the teller all freedom. But, let me tell you that the aim of Jesus in that parable was not to teach anything about heaven or hell, but about the permanence of the Law. He presented Moses as the only escape out of Hell. That parable is almost a continuation of Matthew 5:17-19. **
And why should one escape Hell if life ends with death here on earth? Unless you mean to say that Hell is on earth? Then what about the questions raised by Job about the injustices, iniquities and inequalities on earth, where some bad people die happily and some good people die miserably? Did you read Rabbi Harold Kushner’s book Why Do Bad Things Happen To Good People? One example close to us: "Why did the 6 millions Jews, including women and children, perish at the hands of the Nazis? Many were gased, many were murdered after hjaving been forced to dig their own mass-graves? What great individual sins did each of them commit, tell me? Many were faithful to God’s Torah, I am convinced. This example in itself is enough to raise the inevitable question about God’ retribution here on earth? Even in Jeremiah’s time at the time of the exile to Babylon, a Biblical text says: “Even the priest, even the prophet doesn’t understand”.
There is happiness in fulfilling misvoth, yes. But what would you answer to this?
 
If there is no afterlife, what sense do you make of all this, the Holocaust and the catastrophes of the world?
 
Yes, apart from the visible appearance, it would be kind of hard for you to tell the difference. I can tell the difference even between two Jews within the Hassidic Movement.
That is because you know the things that each actually teaches, don’t you? Ah, but with Christianity, how quick you are at saying that in those days they just turned to "Greek mythology, even though oddly enough the Holy Trinity lacks all the glorified defects of the gods of the Greeks: lust, cheating, etc.!!!
 
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