The mob should lay off. The pope is completely innocent [UK]

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A number of points that should be addressed separately.

We must be very careful not to make the same mistake that some journalists are making, that is judging by association. The media has a job to do, to report information. There have always been and will be biased reporters. We have to learn to recognize them and drive around them, like a pothole on the road.

As far that the handling of the abuses there are several points. The Church never told anyone to cover anything. I’ve been in religious life for years. I have never been told to cover anything, except a pot in the kitchen. There is a big difference between privacy and covering up. It seems that the only organization that is not allowed to have secrets, confidentiality rules. protect people’s privacy and so forth is the Catholic Church. The government can do it. Microsoft can do it, so can the military. But not the Church. This attitude is silly.

The individuals who made claims of being abused have the right to privacy. It is inappropriate for the Church to bring the person’s private information to the public. That’s a choice for the person to make. He or she has to decide whom to tell and when to tell. The Church’s rule has been to protect the privacy of the person.

In every civilized society a person who is accused of a crime has the right to privacy. No one has the right to know what you discuss with your attorney. It’s illegal to ask and to pry. The same rule applies inside the Church. When a cleric or religious is accused of any crime, abuse or other, the individual has a right to privacy. The allegations are explored by the competent authority and until proven guilty, the case remains confidential. Let’s put ourselves in another situation. Imagine that you’re the mother of a priest who is accused of absuing a child. After all is said and done, there is no proof of the abuse. But the doubt remains. You, who are innocent in all of this because you’re the mother, not the accused, can’t show your face in public. Now imagine how much worse it gets if it’s true.

There are too many people affected in these cases. We, I mean society, has a duty to avoid turning these cases into soap operas for the world to see. They have to be explored and if guilt can be proven, then consequences have to be applied. But those who are innocent, should not suffer because an investigation gets out of hand and becomes a public circus. Honesty is one thing, indiscretion is another. Sometimes, we don’t seem to know the difference. Not everything that happens has to become public.

The management of these cases is pretty straightforward stuff. The person is suspended. If he’s a secular priest, his bishop can suspend him. If he’s a consecrated religious, his superior can suspend him. This does not go to Rome. Rome is not interested in doing other people’s job. What we have to understand is that a suspension is no guarrantee that a person is not going to abuse. It’s a guarrantee that the person is not going to function as a priest or religious until proven not guilty. The suspended person is not in a prison.

If the District Attorney issues a warrant for an arrest, then it’s his/her job to decide if the person is to be held without bond or not. In some cases, people are allowed to be free while on trial and not in others. But that’s not the Church’s call. The ecclesial authorities must suspend. That’s their call.

Laicization is being made up to be something different than it is. It’s almost being made out to be a panacea. Let’s understand what it means. Laicize a priest that the person’s promise of celibacy is dispensed and his promise of obedience is dispensed. In simple words, he is no longer bound to celibacy, may not wear religious garb, may not exercise ministry, may not live on Church property or collect benefits from the Church, except those that are mandated by law such as retirement, 401K, etc. Laicization means that the person will live AS IF he were a lay man. He’s not really a lay man. Once you are ordained you will never be a lay man. The Church cannot undo what God does. Just as she cannot make a married person single again, she cannot make a cleric a lay man again. Do not confuse laicization with a decree of nullity. That is very different and not what we’re talking about here. Very rarely can you prove that the person’s ordination was invalid.

Again, it does not guarrantee that the person will not abuse again. In fact, a priest or religiious who is laicized and goes to confession, may marry in the Church, receive all of the sacraments, live as an active Catholic and be burried as a Catholic. He has that right and it cannot be taken away from him. It is his baptismal right.

By he is not a lay man, what do we mean? That man will always be a deacon, priest or bishop. If there is a need that another ordained man cannot provide for, this man can provide without any consequences. In other words, he can hear a confession, grant absolution and annoint a sick person in an emergency. The Church provides the faculties necessary for validity. She does not have to provide the power, because he never lost it.

I hope this helps for better understanding.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
And what is the situation with reference to the pornographic catechism in the Belgian Church given to children which apparently endorses pedophilia? Why didn’t the Cardinal stop this perverted catechism when it was loudly brought to his attention?
 
Distracted, I think you have been a member of CAF long enough to know the rules of this forum. When you start a new thread in the News forums, you are required to use the headline of the article you are citing.

You didn’t do that. Instead, you seem to want to use this thread as a springboard to discuss your New World Order theory, a topic which has nothing to do with the article.
everything has everything to do with everything…
 
One thing that seems horrible is the reports of a pornograhic and perverted children’s catechism supposedly approved by the Belgian Church? There is this report out there on LifeSite news and it is truly a horrible development. Wouldn’t the Vatican have known about this children’s catechism and have some responsibility for not censoring it or not condemning it as soon as people brought it to their attention?
i supose i can google that?

not sure i want to… get so sick of all this sex nonsense…

I guess sex being what it is… once you get caught up in it… hard to get… back on track and… purified or whatever… but how anyone can feel sexual toward a child is beyond me… WAY… cannot even fathom such a thing… but i guess Satan & all his followers can… :mad:

maybe that’s why the saints say that most people go to hell over sexual sins than any other… (and after that its lack of charity…)

because once desire is kindled… hard to put out the flames…

i wouldn’t know… or at least i have to sit and think & try to remember… (& why would i do that?) :rolleyes:cuz I’ve probably said goodby to sex forever…

no one i care to hook up with… but i digress…
 
i supose i can google that?

not sure i want to… get so sick of all this sex nonsense…

I guess sex being what it is… once you get caught up in it… hard to get… back on track and… purified or whatever… but how anyone can feel sexual toward a child is beyond me… WAY… cannot even fathom such a thing… but i guess Satan & all his followers can… :mad:

maybe that’s why the saints say that most people go to hell over sexual sins than any other… (and after that its lack of charity…)

because once desire is kindled… hard to put out the flames…

i wouldn’t know… or at least i have to sit and think & try to remember… (& why would i do that?) :rolleyes:cuz I’ve probably said goodby to sex forever…

no one i care to hook up with… but i digress…
See lifestie news:
lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/jul/10070605.html
 
And what is the situation with reference to the pornographic catechism in the Belgian Church given to children which apparently endorses pedophilia? Why didn’t the Cardinal stop this perverted catechism when it was loudly brought to his attention?
I can’t answer that, because this is the first that I have heard about it. I would want to know more about it, but not form lay people, from the hierarchy itself.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 

A number of points that should be addressed separately.

We must be very careful not to make the same mistake that some journalists are making, that is judging by association. The media has a job to do, to report information. There have always been and will be biased reporters. We have to learn to recognize them and drive around them, like a pothole on the road.

As far that the handling of the abuses there are several points. The Church never told anyone to cover anything. I’ve been in religious life for years. I have never been told to cover anything, except a pot in the kitchen. There is a big difference between privacy and covering up. It seems that the only organization that is not allowed to have secrets, confidentiality rules. protect people’s privacy and so forth is the Catholic Church. The government can do it. Microsoft can do it, so can the military. But not the Church. This attitude is silly.

The individuals who made claims of being abused have the right to privacy. It is inappropriate for the Church to bring the person’s private information to the public. That’s a choice for the person to make. He or she has to decide whom to tell and when to tell. The Church’s rule has been to protect the privacy of the person.

In every civilized society a person who is accused of a crime has the right to privacy. No one has the right to know what you discuss with your attorney. It’s illegal to ask and to pry. The same rule applies inside the Church. When a cleric or religious is accused of any crime, abuse or other, the individual has a right to privacy. The allegations are explored by the competent authority and until proven guilty, the case remains confidential. Let’s put ourselves in another situation. Imagine that you’re the mother of a priest who is accused of absuing a child. After all is said and done, there is no proof of the abuse. But the doubt remains. You, who are innocent in all of this because you’re the mother, not the accused, can’t show your face in public. Now imagine how much worse it gets if it’s true.

There are too many people affected in these cases. We, I mean society, has a duty to avoid turning these cases into soap operas for the world to see. They have to be explored and if guilt can be proven, then consequences have to be applied. But those who are innocent, should not suffer because an investigation gets out of hand and becomes a public circus. Honesty is one thing, indiscretion is another. Sometimes, we don’t seem to know the difference. Not everything that happens has to become public.

The management of these cases is pretty straightforward stuff. The person is suspended. If he’s a secular priest, his bishop can suspend him. If he’s a consecrated religious, his superior can suspend him. This does not go to Rome. Rome is not interested in doing other people’s job. What we have to understand is that a suspension is no guarrantee that a person is not going to abuse. It’s a guarrantee that the person is not going to function as a priest or religious until proven not guilty. The suspended person is not in a prison.

If the District Attorney issues a warrant for an arrest, then it’s his/her job to decide if the person is to be held without bond or not. In some cases, people are allowed to be free while on trial and not in others. But that’s not the Church’s call. The ecclesial authorities must suspend. That’s their call.

Laicization is being made up to be something different than it is. It’s almost being made out to be a panacea. Let’s understand what it means. Laicize a priest that the person’s promise of celibacy is dispensed and his promise of obedience is dispensed. In simple words, he is no longer bound to celibacy, may not wear religious garb, may not exercise ministry, may not live on Church property or collect benefits from the Church, except those that are mandated by law such as retirement, 401K, etc. Laicization means that the person will live AS IF he were a lay man. He’s not really a lay man. Once you are ordained you will never be a lay man. The Church cannot undo what God does. Just as she cannot make a married person single again, she cannot make a cleric a lay man again. Do not confuse laicization with a decree of nullity. That is very different and not what we’re talking about here. Very rarely can you prove that the person’s ordination was invalid.

Again, it does not guarrantee that the person will not abuse again. In fact, a priest or religiious who is laicized and goes to confession, may marry in the Church, receive all of the sacraments, live as an active Catholic and be burried as a Catholic. He has that right and it cannot be taken away from him. It is his baptismal right.

By he is not a lay man, what do we mean? That man will always be a deacon, priest or bishop. If there is a need that another ordained man cannot provide for, this man can provide without any consequences. In other words, he can hear a confession, grant absolution and annoint a sick person in an emergency. The Church provides the faculties necessary for validity. She does not have to provide the power, because he never lost it.

I hope this helps for better understanding.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
interesting…

& probably more/less accurate… but i tend to think/feel that some priests are getting away with their crimes…

just wish i knew more about it… *something written by a Catholic, & in-depth… *
 
And what is the situation with reference to the pornographic catechism in the Belgian Church given to children which apparently endorses pedophilia? Why didn’t the Cardinal stop this perverted catechism when it was loudly brought to his attention?
I tried to verify the existence of this “catechism”, and I couldn’t any. One forum even pointed out that it is the only English entry on the Dutch woman’s blog (which I checked and it seems to be the case - I lost the address but just google her name), and every other site having it mostly copied the article verbatim. It seems to be simply just slanderous, unsubstantiated propaganda, that even the media rightly ignored!
 
I tried to verify the existence of this “catechism”, and I couldn’t any. One forum even pointed out that it is the only English entry on the Dutch woman’s blog (which I checked and it seems to be the case - I lost the address but just google her name), and every other site having it mostly copied the article verbatim. It seems to be simply just slanderous, unsubstantiated propaganda, that even the media rightly ignored!
I’m a bit suspicious, too, since the charge is outrageous and there doesn’t seem to be any solid information about it. Part of the difficulty in finding information, other than the language barrier, is that it the text may no longer be in use.

Apparently the catechism textbook was a 1997/1998 controversy, perhaps only making the news in Belgium. It only recently became a controversy in the US when the English language blog Brussels Journal ran an article by a member of the Belgian House of Representatives.
brusselsjournal.com/node/4471
 

interesting…

& probably more/less accurate…
Which part do you think is inaccurate?
but i tend to think/feel that some priests are getting away with their crimes…
There is not such thing as a perfect judicial system. Therefore, there are alwasy going to be people who fly under the radar.
just wish i knew more about it… *something written by a Catholic, & in-depth… *
What do you want to know more about? I’m a Catholic. Maybe I can help and maybe not.

The focus of the OP is the current pope’s complicity in cover-up. I answered according to Church law that it is not the obligation of the Roman Curia to suspend those who are accused of abuse. That’s the duty of the diocesan bishop, if the man is a secular cleric or the Major Superior, if the man is a consecrated religious.

What people are trying to say is that the then Cardinal Ratzinger should have done the job of the local bishop or Major Superior. Cardinal Ratzinger was not going to do that any more than we would go jumping oiut of a plane. We all know his position on subsidiarity. In his mind the rule is straightforward. A higher ranking official or organism is not to do the job of a lower ranking one.

It makes sense. If the Roman Curia made it its business to deal with every problem that arises in every diocese and every religious order it would never finish the job and in the end, nothing would be resolved. The duty of the Curia is to make the rules. The duty of the bishop and the Major Superior is to implement the rules. Only when the rules are violated are these folks called to give an explanation. This has been done, not only by Pope Benedict, but also by Pope John Paul II. In 2001, Pope John Paul II gave Cardinal Ratzinger the authority to call to task any bishop or religious superior who was not doing the job. Today, the same power that was given to him, Pope Benedict has delegated it to Cardinal Laveda.

The question of what did Cardinal Ratzinger know and when did he know it is a very typical question that one would ask in a civil situation. But this is not a civil organism. This is an ecclesial organism and the modus procedendi is different, because we are dealing not only with the abuse, but also with the Sacrament of Holy Orders. The integrity of the sacrament must be protected along with the integrity of the victim. The Church has to be very careful to deal with this problem in such a way that it does not send a message that Holy Orders can lose its meaning, its rights, and its authority because of sin. That would be an error against revealed truth. Sin cannot trump the sacraments.

What many people in the secular world want is for the Church to simply strip an ordained man of his ordination, because he committed a sin or even a grave crime, as is the case with abuse. But that is impossible. The Church does not have the authority to do that. To make it look like she does is to teach something that is not true.

Also, the Church must strike a balance between civil obligations and ecclesial obligations. Bishops and religious speriors must comply with civil law as long as the compliance does not require them to violate ecclesial law. Ecclesial law has greater authority. The salvation of souls rests on it. This is not an easy balance to orchestrate from the Vatican, especially because civil law varies from country to country. The civil part has to be handled locally. There are people who are making unreasonable demands that the Vatican comply with every civil law in every nation where the Church is present. That’s crazy. The local diocese must comply, because it exists in that country. The Vatican does not exist in every country on earth. It has to limit itself to dealing withe the ecclesial dimension and let the local religious authorities deal with the local civil laws. This is what has been encouraged since this thing blew up at the beginning of the 21st century. I believe that we are doing a good job in the USA.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I’m a bit suspicious, too, since the charge is outrageous and there doesn’t seem to be any solid information about it. Part of the difficulty in finding information, other than the language barrier, is that it the text may no longer be in use.

Apparently the catechism textbook was a 1997/1998 controversy, perhaps only making the news in Belgium. It only recently became a controversy in the US when the English language blog Brussels Journal ran an article by a member of the Belgian House of Representatives.
brusselsjournal.com/node/4471
The first that I heard about this was here on CAF. I asked our brothers and no one has heard about this. How big could this be that the only people who know it are on CAF?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
The first that I heard about this was here on CAF. I asked our brothers and no one has heard about this. How big could this be that the only people who know it are on CAF?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Anyone who reads lifesite news would know about it.
 
Anyone who reads lifesite news would know about it.
I did not see it. But I must also confess that I do not read Lifesite daily. I usually read it when something comes up on Humanae Vitae and Evangelium Vitae. Even then, it’s because someone sends me a link to an interesting article.

If that’s where the story appeared, I would have no way of knowing about it. Besides, we’re not allowed to read the news without permission. But this would have been a big thing, if it were true. The folks here never heard about this. Trust me, our guys have a good ear and memory for big news. 😃

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Anyone who reads lifesite news would know about it.
hmm… a search of the LifeSite website yields only one article about it, and all their information came from the author of the Brussels Journal article which I previously mentioned.

This seems to a case of Americans treating a settled issue as still active simply because we have just heard about it. And what little we have heard all comes from one person, even though the controversy took place more than a decade ago. This makes me suspicious about the accuracy of the charge, which is rather breathtaking and would surely make the news.
 
hmm… a search of the LifeSite website yields only one article about it, and all their information came from the author of the Brussels Journal article which I previously mentioned.

This seems to a case of Americans treating a settled issue as still active simply because we have just heard about it. And what little we have heard all comes from one person, even though the controversy took place more than a decade ago. This makes me suspicious about the accuracy of the charge, which is rather breathtaking and would surely make the news.
I’m getting the same impression that you are. This is one person filing this report. Obviously, some people were concerned. But the article does not say that what she reported was ever proven to be true. It just says that she reports this and that different cardinals was concerned. Obviously, they should be concerned.

But the important piece is missing. Was her report accurate? LIfesite does not say. It does not cite any other source except this one person.

I think it’s very irresponsible on Lifesite’s part to publish this without the rest of the story. But I’m not surprised either. Lifesite’s staff seems to be very diverse. Some are very professional and write very good and complete reports and others tend to be very careless in their reporting. That’s unfortunate, especially in this case.

My personal opinion is that if this were true and if it actually came to light as they claim, it would have been commonly known. I can honestly say that among the hundreds of clergy and religious with whom I deal in one week and the thousands with whom I have dealt with since the alleged story happened, no one has ever said, “Did you hear what happened in Belgium?”

My guess is going to be that either it was not as big as the person said or it had nothing to do with the bishops and that’s why it did not make the clerical and religious hotline. Trust me, something this big once the barn door was open would have made the rounds very fast. This is the first I have ever heard of this. It says that this happened in the late 90s.

I live in a cloister, but not a grave. LOL Stuff like this, we do hear about, if it’s that big as they allege. No one that I know knows anything about this or has ever heard about it.

Again, I can say for sure, I’m not involved in it. But my advice is to take it with a grain of salt.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Which part do you think is inaccurate?

There is not such thing as a perfect judicial system. Therefore, there are alwasy going to be people who fly under the radar.

Also, the Church must strike a balance between civil obligations and ecclesial obligations. Bishops and religious speriors must comply with civil law as long as the compliance does not require them to violate ecclesial law. Ecclesial law has greater authority. The salvation of souls rests on it. This is not an easy balance to orchestrate from the Vatican, especially because civil law varies from country to country. The civil part has to be handled locally. There are people who are making unreasonable demands that the Vatican comply with every civil law in every nation where the Church is present. That’s crazy. The local diocese must comply, because it exists in that country. The Vatican does not exist in every country on earth. It has to limit itself to dealing withe the ecclesial dimension and let the local religious authorities deal with the local civil laws. This is what has been encouraged since this thing blew up at the beginning of the 21st century. I believe that we are doing a good job in the USA.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
i u/stand this & knew most of it b4… but this last paragraph concerns me… why do you say this:

***especially because civil law varies from country to country. The civil part has to be handled locally. There are people who are making unreasonable demands that the Vatican comply with every civil law in every nation where the Church is present. ***

Pedophilia is universally against the law… .:confused: as i am sure you know… just trying to u/stand… not trying to be difficult…

priests sexually abusing children is a VERY seroius SIN… violtion of a person’s vocation…

i realize that the bishop is supposed to deal w/ this problem… (I think you said bishop)
but what if the bishop doesn’t do anything? Wht is the chain of command?
 
i u/stand this & knew most of it b4… but this last paragraph concerns me… why do you say this:

***especially because civil law varies from country to country. The civil part has to be handled locally. There are people who are making unreasonable demands that the Vatican comply with every civil law in every nation where the Church is present. ***

Pedophilia is universally against the law… .:confused: as i am sure you know… just trying to u/stand… not trying to be difficult…

priests sexually abusing children is a VERY seroius SIN… violtion of a person’s vocation…

i realize that the bishop is supposed to deal w/ this problem… (I think you said bishop)
but what if the bishop doesn’t do anything? Wht is the chain of command?
Unfortunately, sexual abuse of minors is not a crime in every country. In some coutries it’s not even considered an abuse. It’s often a rite of passage from boyhood to manhood. There are some countries where girls are given over to men as their partners as soon as they reach puberty. We know that this can be as early as age 12 or earlier. That does not mean that the Church espouses it. It simply means that there is no civil law in place for this unless there is violence against the child. That’s one example of a variation in civil law.

My reason for wording it this way was because I was in the missions in the Amazon. They have “marriages” among the indigenous peoples between older men and little girls. In our culture that is abhorent and sexual abuse. In their culture it’s legal. It’s a very different system. An adult male can take a 13-year old girl as his wife and it’s legal. But if an adult male has intercourse with a 16-year old males, it’s criminal. The issue is not age, but gender. They have very strict rules about gay relationships, not about relationships with children or what we would call children in our culture. In my mind a 13-year old girl is a child. I was shocked when I first saw this. Part of our mission was to educate them on the dignity of children, regardless of gender.

Another example of variation in civil law is how the crime itself is treated. In some countries the response is proprotionate and should be supported. In some countries the civil punishment is capital punishment. That cannot be supported. The Church does not support capital punishment except in very rare circumstances and this is not one of them, because it is a disproportionate response. There are other humane ways of protecting children from predators without violating the dignity of the predator and violating moral law. Although moral law makes allowances for capital punishment, it also places many restrictions on its use. We don’t want to go there.

As to the chain of command. There are two answers to that. Most priests are secular men. Therefore, they answer to the Diocesan Bishop. The first stop is always the pastor. That is the current law in the USA. Then it’s the Diocesan Bishop. Then it’s the Sacred Congregation for the Faith headed by Cardinal Levada of Los Angeles.

There are about 40% of priests who are consecrated men. The chain is different there. The first stop is the pastor. The second stop is the superior of the house. The third stop is the Provincial Superior. The fourth stop is the Superior General. The fifth stop is the Sacred Congregation for the Faith.

Most people cannot tell the difference between a secular priest and a consecrated priest and that’s OK. When you report it the report is forwarded to the proper authority. Let’s say that the crime is committed by a Franciscan and you report it to the bishop. The bishop’s office will forward the report to the local superior and a copy to the Provincial Minister. From there the report makes its way up the chain.

You do not lose anything if you start in the wrong place. Someone will catch it and send your report to the person who needs to see it.

In closing, I will say that the religious superiors do work very closely with the bishops. About the only time that a bishop does not become involved would be if the crime took place in an institution and ministry that it owned and operated by the religious order. That makes sense. The bishop has no authority there. However, there is no conflict between bishop and religious superiors. They will work cooperatively to explore the complaint and find a solution. It’s not unusual for them to help each other.

If you have a concern and don’t know where to go, turn to the local pastor, if it’s in a parish or to the chancery. They will direct you. What the Church asks you not to do is to turn to every person who will listen. In other words, be honest and discrete. Do not lie, but do not turn something into a soap opera either. There are innocent people who will be hurt if this happens. If you’re not sure where to go inside the Church, then go to either the police or child protective services (goes by different names in different counties).

I hope this is helpful.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Unfortunately, sexual abuse of minors is not a crime in every country. In some coutries it’s not even considered an abuse. It’s often a rite of passage from boyhood to manhood. There are some countries where girls are given over to men as their partners as soon as they reach puberty. We know that this can be as early as age 12 or earlier. That does not mean that the Church espouses it. It simply means that there is no civil law in place for this unless there is violence against the child. That’s one example of a variation in civil law.

My reason for wording it this way was because I was in the missions in the Amazon. They have “marriages” among the indigenous peoples between older men and little girls. In our culture that is abhorent and sexual abuse. In their culture it’s legal. It’s a very different system. An adult male can take a 13-year old girl as his wife and it’s legal. But if an adult male has intercourse with a 16-year old males, it’s criminal. The issue is not age, but gender. They have very strict rules about gay relationships, not about relationships with children or what we would call children in our culture. In my mind a 13-year old girl is a child. I was shocked when I first saw this. Part of our mission was to educate them on the dignity of children, regardless of gender.

Another example of variation in civil law is how the crime itself is treated. In some countries the response is proprotionate and should be supported. In some countries the civil punishment is capital punishment. That cannot be supported. The Church does not support capital punishment except in very rare circumstances and this is not one of them, because it is a disproportionate response. There are other humane ways of protecting children from predators without violating the dignity of the predator and violating moral law. Although moral law makes allowances for capital punishment, it also places many restrictions on its use. We don’t want to go there.

As to the chain of command. There are two answers to that. Most priests are secular men. Therefore, they answer to the Diocesan Bishop. The first stop is always the pastor. That is the current law in the USA. Then it’s the Diocesan Bishop. Then it’s the Sacred Congregation for the Faith headed by Cardinal Levada of Los Angeles.

There are about 40% of priests who are consecrated men. The chain is different there. The first stop is the pastor. The second stop is the superior of the house. The third stop is the Provincial Superior. The fourth stop is the Superior General. The fifth stop is the Sacred Congregation for the Faith.

Most people cannot tell the difference between a secular priest and a consecrated priest and that’s OK. When you report it the report is forwarded to the proper authority. Let’s say that the crime is committed by a Franciscan and you report it to the bishop. The bishop’s office will forward the report to the local superior and a copy to the Provincial Minister. From there the report makes its way up the chain.

You do not lose anything if you start in the wrong place. Someone will catch it and send your report to the person who needs to see it.

In closing, I will say that the religious superiors do work very closely with the bishops. About the only time that a bishop does not become involved would be if the crime took place in an institution and ministry that it owned and operated by the religious order. That makes sense. The bishop has no authority there. However, there is no conflict between bishop and religious superiors. They will work cooperatively to explore the complaint and find a solution. It’s not unusual for them to help each other.

If you have a concern and don’t know where to go, turn to the local pastor, if it’s in a parish or to the chancery. They will direct you. What the Church asks you not to do is to turn to every person who will listen. In other words, be honest and discrete. Do not lie, but do not turn something into a soap opera either. There are innocent people who will be hurt if this happens. If you’re not sure where to go inside the Church, then go to either the police or child protective services (goes by different names in different counties).

I hope this is helpful.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
its very helpful cuz i didn’t know…

One thing i am still clue-less about though… is Why is the media saying that Cardinal Law & others covered up sex abuse. I dont trust the media but when everywhere you turn you hear the same thing… and … well, just from my admittedly limited knowledge… it SEEMS that there was some amount of cover up and wrong-doing.

Did the vicims follow the proper procedure… I’m sure they went to the civil authorities but what about the Church authorities? If the civil were tried first… Then how does the Church handle that… ? The Church may disagree w/ certain laws, such as the ones you mention in certain cultures… but doesn’t the Church have to obey them? i would hate to have the Church hierarchy comply w/ some of the civil laws… (killing certain perpetrators… or condoning that, i should say)

Again, it just seems like there are a lot of unanswered questions… and i DON’T want to get my info from the secular media…

hasn’t someone written a book on this?? Catholic?:confused:
 
its very helpful cuz i didn’t know…

One thing i am still clue-less about though… is Why is the media saying that Cardinal Law & others covered up sex abuse. I dont trust the media but when everywhere you turn you hear the same thing… and … well, just from my admittedly limited knowledge… it SEEMS that there was some amount of cover up and wrong-doing.

Did the vicims follow the proper procedure… I’m sure they went to the civil authorities but what about the Church authorities? If the civil were tried first… Then how does the Church handle that… ? The Church may disagree w/ certain laws, such as the ones you mention in certain cultures… but doesn’t the Church have to obey them? i would hate to have the Church hierarchy comply w/ some of the civil laws… (killing certain perpetrators… or condoning that, i should say)

Again, it just seems like there are a lot of unanswered questions… and i DON’T want to get my info from the secular media…

hasn’t someone written a book on this?? Catholic?:confused:
I’ll begin with your last question. There is no book on this, because by the time the book were written it would be obsolete. Law is fluid, meaning that it changes very quickly.

The Church must comply with civil laws in the country in which it finds itself as long as those laws meet these criteria:
  1. They are not in conflict with Church law. If so, Church law takes precedence, because it is of Divine origin.
  2. Civil law must not be in conflict with revelation as defined by the Catholic Church only. If the bishop of the local Church determines that a civil law is in conflict with revealed truth, the Church is not bound to comply and may even have a moral duty to refuse to comply.
  3. Civil law must comply with Catholic moral law. For example, the Church will not hand over a person to be executed. The Church’s moral law on capital punishment is very clear. “The need for capital punishment is almost non-existent.” The state has to prove, to the Church’s satisfaction, that there is a real need for capital punshment in this particular case bebore she will hand someone over to the state.
These rules apply not only to bishops, but to the laity too. The laity cannot support civil law that is not supported by the Church, nor can the laity morally comply with such civil law that is condemned by the Church. A good example of this would be in a Muslim country where they stone homosexual people. A Catholic living there is not bound to comply with civil law and has a moral duty to disobey by helping the alleged criminal avoid a cruel and disproportionate punishment. Such was the case with the Jews during WW II and many Christians under Communism. We hid them and we deliberately violated civil law, even though the law said that these people were criminals.

Cardinal Law was accused of hiding sexual offenders. The case never went to trial. We will never now all the facts.

Did victims follow proper procedures? Many did. Many did not. Some never said anything until they were adults. Some went to the press, before they went to the hierarchy. Others went to the hierarchy and the hierarchy completely hishandled the situation. Some bishops truly believed that with counseling the perpetrator would be healed. This is what the mental health community said. Other bishops believed that the perpetrator should be given another chance, because he expressed remorse. Many bishops were terrified of the scandal and just moved the perpetrator to another parish. This last fear proved to be the most catastrophic choice. When the reports made it to the press, the scandal was bigger than what it may have been if it hand been handled immediately using the proper channels.

Finally, there are several unanswered questions I don’t know if we will ever know the answer.
  1. Is a gay adolescent who voluntarilly engages in sexual activity with an adult truly a victim according to civil law? Let me explain why I ask. Today, the GBLT community protects the right of gay adolescents to engage in sexual activity. We have civil laws that protect straight adolescents who engage in sexual activities with adults. A minor girl who is impregnated by an adult man may get an abortion without reporting the adult man. The abortion clinics do not have to ask or report. They are only obliged to report, if they ask or if the minor complains. This raises a question. When is sex between a minor and an adult an abuse and when is it not? I’m asking the civil community to respond, not the Church. The Church already says that it’s aways a grave sin. But civil law seems to have exceptioins, except for priets.
  2. How many of the alleged abusers are proven not guilty? This is never reported.
  3. Is it morally right for the Catholic community to discard a priest who committed an abuse 30 years ago, went to confession, and has not commited another such crime again? It is understandable that he should face civil charges. No one questions that. But there is the question about ecclesial punishment for one who has shown contrition and who has changed and served the Church. I had never thought of this until Fr. Corapi challenged the Catholic laity to think about this and he explained that it is immoral to “throw someone into a dumpster for a sin that they commited a long time agao, for which they did penance and have served God and brother faithfully ever since.” Fr. Corapi and I do not always agree. But this made sense. If we truly believe in the Sacrament of Reconciliation and in conversion, should we as Catholics ban someone who has not sinned for that long a period of time?
Those are just a few questions that I have no idea if we will ever get answers to.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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