The Morality of a Single Payer Health Care System

[Holly3278]

Hey, everyone. I have wondered about this for quite some time. What would the Catholic stance be on a single payer healthcare system here in the United States (or anywhere else for that matter)? The Catholic Church is against socialism and a single payer healthcare system would be a form of socialism so would it be an immoral form of health care or would it be something that would be good? Has the USCCB ever spoken on the subject of single payer healthcare systems? Have any Popes (including Pope Francis) ever said anything? Has the Vatican or the Magisterium in general ever said anything on the subject? I would just really like to know whether this is something that is compatible with Catholic teaching because I think it is something I would support if it is compatible with Catholic teaching.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

State Socialism is generally a Very Bad Thing. Of course, Mussolini did make the trains run on time.

 

[Viki63]

Hey, everyone. I have wondered about this for quite some time. What would the Catholic stance be on a single payer healthcare system here in the United States (or anywhere else for that matter)? The Catholic Church is against socialism and a single payer healthcare system would be a form of socialism so would it be an immoral form of health care or would it be something that would be good? Has the USCCB ever spoken on the subject of single payer healthcare systems? Have any Popes (including Pope Francis) ever said anything? Has the Vatican or the Magisterium in general ever said anything on the subject? I would just really like to know whether this is something that is compatible with Catholic teaching because I think it is something I would support if it is compatible with Catholic teaching.

My understanding is that the Catholic church supports the view that healthcare is a human right. Here is an article by Mark Shea that sums it up. He says: “The wounded man in the parable was owed his life, and the priest and Levite robbed him by ignoring him. Meanwhile, the Samaritan was not, according to Jesus, a hero or a saint, but merely a neighbor. The priest and Levite sinned by depriving the man of simple justice. The Samaritan bestowed not charity, but simple justice by giving him what we today call “health care.”
Health care thus becomes the role of the state because it is precisely the job of the state to ensure justice.”

In my opinion, Medicare for All is not socialism. It’s simply paying for healthcare with taxes instead of with premiums, deductibles, and copays; it levels the field so that if your son gets cancer, you don’t need to declare bankruptcy. Just like if your house is on fire, the fire dept comes without asking if you can afford their services.

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[twf]

The US government is VERY socialist already compared to say states of the early 1900s. There are various welfare programs. Even basic things like roads are provided and paid for by the state. Schools are run and paid for by the state. It’s all relative. Socialism doesn’t start and end with health care. Going back to at least Pope Leo XIII, popes have repeatedly called on states to support and protect the poor among their people. The Church condemns atheistic / Marxist communism, not all forms of socialism.
Frankly, the idea that the Church would condemn single payer health care is a question that no Catholic outside of the US would even think to ask. Health care is a universal right. This is something that Pope Francis has said.
Think of it this way… states as we know them are pretty novel concepts. For much of Church history local lords ruled the faithful. What did the Church always tell Lords, princes, and kings? Be shepherds! If a Christian Lord was expected to care for the poor under his charge, why would it be wrong for modern states to do so?

 

[twf]

The US government is VERY socialist already compared to say states of the early 1900s. There are various welfare programs. Even basic things like roads are provided and paid for by the state. Schools are run and paid for by the state. It’s all relative. Socialism doesn’t start and end with health care. Going back to at least Pope Leo XIII, popes have repeatedly called on states to support and protect the poor among their people. The Church condemns atheistic / Marxist communism, not all forms of socialism.
Frankly, the idea that the Church would condemn single payer health care is a question that no Catholic outside of the US would even think to ask. Health care is a universal right. This is something that Pope Francis has said.
Think of it this way… states as we know them are pretty novel concepts. For much of Church history local lords ruled the faithful. What did the Church always tell Lords, princes, and kings? Be shepherds! If a Christian Lord was expected to care for the poor under his charge, why would it be wrong for modern states to do so?

I won’t quote Pope Francis as many here see him as being too progressive… so let’s go to Pope Benedict. All would agree that he was a “conservative” Catholic… but authentic Catholic conservatism is NOT the platform of the US Republican Party. Take a look at this article…back in 2010 Pope Benedict declared that states must ensure all citizens have access to healthcare as a matter of justice: https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/pope-says-universal-health-care-inalienable-right

 

[vincexjt]

Single payer, by it self is neither moral or immoral. Prior to the affordable care act I didn’t see the streets over crowed with dead people from lack of medical care but people did go into debt, even extreme debt to pay medical bills.
England has single payer and few were impressed with Charlie Gards situation.
If we go to single payer we shouldn’t cover elective procedures like abortions, sex changes, nose jobs ect. I don’t want my tax money paying for things like that.
Also I am suspicious of all programs that want my money to do stuff. Many times out of every dolar recieved 20 cents goes to provide what is needed and 80 cents goes to managing the program.

 

[vincexjt]

Single payer, by it self is neither moral or immoral. Prior to the affordable care act I didn’t see the streets over crowed with dead people from lack of medical care but people did go into debt, even extreme debt to pay medical bills.
England has single payer and few were impressed with Charlie Gards situation.
If we go to single payer we shouldn’t cover elective procedures like abortions, sex changes, nose jobs ect. I don’t want my tax money paying for things like that.
Also I am suspicious of all programs that want my money to do stuff. Many times out of every dolar recieved 20 cents goes to provide what is needed and 80 cents goes to managing the program.

 

[joeybaggz]

Hey, everyone. I have wondered about this for quite some time. What would the Catholic stance be on a single payer healthcare system here in the United States (or anywhere else for that matter)? The Catholic Church is against socialism and a single payer healthcare system would be a form of socialism so would it be an immoral form of health care or would it be something that would be good? Has the USCCB ever spoken on the subject of single payer healthcare systems? Have any Popes (including Pope Francis) ever said anything? Has the Vatican or the Magisterium in general ever said anything on the subject? I would just really like to know whether this is something that is compatible with Catholic teaching because I think it is something I would support if it is compatible with Catholic teaching.

There is a single payer system already at work in the United States. It is funded by the American Taxpayer and benefits a large portion of the American Population. It is called the United States Veterans Administration. I am a beneficiary.

I can tell you that all veterans who qualify are given a basic standard of healthcare. There are procedures that are not accessible to veterans according to that nature of their service. A highly decorated combat veteran is entitled to services that are not available to veterans who do not qualify based on the lack of similar experience. The system works, basic healthcare is afforded to this population, and I see a way it could work for a vast part of the population.

My suggestion, make military service mandatory for all at age 18. After 30 months of service, one may separate from the service and be enrolled in a single payer system like the VA. A minimum monthly service fee would be mandated, slightly higher for a family, and basic continuing care would be provided. And other benefits such as the GI Bill would be available for continuing education. Trump would have the people he needs to seal the borders.

If you think that would overwhelm the existing VA healthcare system, you would be right. But if the government has a program where local civiliant hospitals were compliant and offered this care, they would be funded by the government through the monthly service fees paid by Veterans. After a period of time, say 20 years, there would be no continuing service fee.

Would there be people who do not qualify, yes. But there are options for their care. it just takes someone willing to come up with the solution given the vast network of health care available in the United States. Mine isn’t the complete answer, but it is a start, maybe???

 

[Book_Worm]

Single payer, by it self is neither moral or immoral. Prior to the affordable care act I didn’t see the streets over crowed with dead people from lack of medical care but people did go into debt, even extreme debt to pay medical bills.
England has single payer and few were impressed with Charlie Gards situation.
If we go to single payer we shouldn’t cover elective procedures like abortions, sex changes, nose jobs ect. I don’t want my tax money paying for things like that.
Also I am suspicious of all programs that want my money to do stuff. Many times out of every dolar recieved 20 cents goes to provide what is needed and 80 cents goes to managing the program.

You may not have seen people dying in the streets, but I assure you that, prior to the ACA, people did die from lack of medical care or suffered in many ways short of death. Others faced bankruptcy or stayed for decades in jobs they hated because they or their dependents had pre-existing conditions.

There’s a medical insurance company headquarters not far from my house. Every morning and evening, company helicopters fly over my house, ferrying executives to and from their offices. I won’t begin to list the perks and benefits they receive. And that all comes from our premium dollars.

Ask some seniors how willing they would be to give up Medicare and go back to paying for private insurance.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

In my opinion, Medicare for All is not socialism. It’s simply paying for healthcare with taxes instead of with premiums, deductibles, and copays; it levels the field so that if your son gets cancer, you don’t need to declare bankruptcy. Just like if your house is on fire, the fire dept comes without asking if you can afford their services.

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I agree. I view it as a common good, like water, air and all that we need regardless of our ability to pay. As long as there are very sick people who cannot afford care it makes no sense to expect capitalism to provide an answer.

 

[GEddie]

To oppose nationalized health-care is to hold that human life is secondary to the right to profit. The Church, whatever it may say now or in the past concerning socialism, is never going to say that.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Listener]

I would like to point out that the USA is about the only civilized country in the entire world that does not have a single-payer health care system, with the exception of countries like Switzerland, where everyone is required to buy basic medical insurance, with subsidies for those who can’t afford it.

If this is a sin, then a huge number of countries are very immoral!

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

I would like to point out that the USA is about the only civilized country in the entire world that does not have a single-payer health care system, with the exception of countries like Switzerland, where everyone is required to buy basic medical insurance, with subsidies for those who can’t afford it.

If this is a sin, then a huge number of countries are very immoral!

Which makes it interesting that people who can afford it come from all over the world to receive specialized medical care here in the USA, including folks such as the Saudi royal family.

 

[babs57]

My main concern is that it necessarily gives my right to choose what health care I receive or want for my family to the government, a Godless entity, that has no moral imperative to choose life for me or my elderly granny. If we do end up with a single-payer system we should give it to the Catholic Church to run!

 

[Viki63]

My main concern is that it necessarily gives my right to choose what health care I receive or want for my family to the government, a Godless entity, that has no moral imperative to choose life for me or my elderly granny. If we do end up with a single-payer system we should give it to the Catholic Church to run!

That won’t happen, although it might be nice. The US is basically a Protestant country, although not many Protestants could tell you what they are protesting against.

Expanded and Improved Medicare for All (the best title for single payer) should provide basic services. If euthanasia is pushed, we Christians need to push back.

If David Daleiden’s case is accepted by the Supreme Court, it will be a game changer as far as abortion. The videos he made of Planned Parenthood will be shown, and I’m hoping that will turn people even more against abortion. I’m praying it won’t be included as “healthcare.”

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[rossum]

I would like to point out that the USA is about the only civilized country in the entire world that does not have a single-payer health care system, with the exception of countries like Switzerland, where everyone is required to buy basic medical insurance, with subsidies for those who can’t afford it.

If this is a sin, then a huge number of countries are very immoral!

And also that no Popes have issued edicts against any of those countries for providing a single-payer health system. Effectively all of Western Europe has some form of single-payer. No Pope that I am aware of has ever made a general statement on the subject.

Popes are not members of the US Republican party and do not always follow the Republican party line.

$0.02 (or perhaps €0.02)

rossum

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Which makes it interesting that people who can afford it come from all over the world to receive specialized medical care here in the USA, including folks such as the Saudi royal family.

People of wealth will always be able to get the care they want. The “national” part of national healthcare is for the vast majority who cannot pay the huge bills. The top 1% can have their private doctors and clinics. Concierge medicine can alway be a private option.

 

[mikekle]

Insurance companies are a huge part of the problem imo.

In the end, they are most concerned with their PROFITS.

 

[GEddie]

Insurance companies are a huge part of the problem imo.

In the end, they are most concerned with their PROFITS.

And the whole structure is lopsided to begin with, because of the nature of insurance.

Insurance is sold against finite risks – not certainties. If every driver crashed, there could be no car insurance. If every building burned, there could be no fire insurance.

But every human body is certain to fail catastrophically and expensively.

So the only way to make money insuring the human body is to exclude almost everybody. The system comes out of the box broken.

ICXC NIKA

 

[JimG]

I don’t think that there is anything inherently immoral about a single payer system, although I don’t think it is the cheapest or most efficient system.

Even now, a number of physician practices are opting for what is known as “direct primary care,” but it is really a “no insurance" system. Patients pay a monthly fee for service directly to the physician practice, which accepts no insurance whatever, not even Medicare. The cost at which they are able to provide medical care is often startlingly lower than can be had in other practices.

When a third party is paying the bill, no one cares about cost saving; and no one thinks twice about seeking any treatment as long as someone else is paying. Insurance effectively drives up prices.

(As an aside, during my own lengthy lifetime I’ve experienced a complete reversal of medical care delivery. In my childhood and youth, everyone paid the doc directly. Nobody had insurance. Some years later, Blue Cross and Blue Shield came out with a health insurance product. But many people were wary of it because they thought it was just a guaranteed income plan for doctors, and why should I pay a monthly fee when I’m not even going in to see the doctor.

Later still, Medicare was approved, and I had a hard time believing that the government would pay for all my Dad’s health care. Now, health insurance is the standard, but it wasn’t always so. Once, when I was between jobs, my wife was struck with a very serious illness. She was in the hospital for 30 days. We had no insurance. After I was again employed a few weeks later, we paid off both the hospital and the doctor out of pocket by making monthly payments over the course of two years.)