The More I Read

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

No, the Word of God is the Word of God, and tradition is tradition. You are correct in not one over the other, but are in error that they are the same thing, the Word.

Is that the Protestant understanding? Because the Catholic understanding is that the Word of God is not just the Bible. In fact, Jesus is the Word. Even the Bible itself says that there are not books enough to hold it all and that much of Jesus’ life was preserved in the heart of Mary.
(I am not being facetious and do not mean to bicker. I just was not sure which opinion you were expressing.)
I am part of a Cenacle of Divine Mercy and it has been a wonderful experience of Bible reading and also the Catechism and St. Faustina’s Diary. I feel very immersed in God’s Word and it is very satisfying. I recommend anyone who feels the need for more of God’s Word in their lives to encourage a Cenacle in your own parish.

 

[thecoach]

***“He who will not have the Church for his mother cannot have God for his Father.” ***St. Augustine. I pray, the pope prays, John prays, and I could go on to list thousands of saints, all who are told by God that Christ established the Church, and to leave the Church is to leave God. The Devil contorts Scripture to suit his purpose: division. The Catholic Church promotes that unity which Jesus Christ prayed for; Protestantism supports spiritual anarchy…to each his own…something you hear from Wiccans and other neo pagans. You can’t pick and choose which verses of Scripture you will accept or not…this is something that the Devil did when tempting the Lord, something he did with Luther, Calvin, Smith…if those are your models, verses the Apostles, disciples, Jesus Christ Himself, then I don’t know what to say…“If you will not hear the Truth, no one can tell you.” I’ll pray for your openness to the Spirit of God.

And your reason for this tirade is? A tree is judged by its fruit, and with such fruit as this spewing…

 

[thecoach]

Is that the Protestant understanding? Because the Catholic understanding is that the Word of God is not just the Bible. In fact, Jesus is the Word. Even the Bible itself says that there are not books enough to hold it all and that much of Jesus’ life was preserved in the heart of Mary.
(I am not being facetious and do not mean to bicker. I just was not sure which opinion you were expressing.)
I am part of a Cenacle of Divine Mercy and it has been a wonderful experience of Bible reading and also the Catechism and St. Faustina’s Diary. I feel very immersed in God’s Word and it is very satisfying. I recommend anyone who feels the need for more of God’s Word in their lives to encourage a Cenacle in your own parish.

Wouldnt know, Im not Protestant. As far as the Catholic understanding goes, SCripture is Scripture, and Tradition is Tradition. If what you are doing has you at peace, the God bless.

 

[thecoach]

I might be wrong, but I think this forum is for the discussion of Non-Catholic religions, and that Catholics and non-Catholics are allowed to participate fully on all the forums at Catholic Answers. I hope your studies bring you ever closer to Christ. God bless.

Precisely. However, I have been more attacked than allowed to participate.

 

[latinmasslover]

And your reason for this tirade is? A tree is judged by its fruit, and with such fruit as this spewing…

Ah, Joel, that wasn’t a “tirade,” but a simple response to your personal attacks on myself, John, and the Catholic Church. You refuse to answer any objection; you just criticize, criticize, criticize. Is this the new peace you’ve found from your readings? You’re panicking and thus blowing off everybody who disagrees with you. At least back up the garbage *you’re *spewing. You’re proving yourself to be a very good Protestant. Read your Bible a little more thoroughly and then tell me what I said that was so unChristian. I know it a lot, Joel, to ask you to back up your accusations with something besides “you’re wrong” but I’m sure the Spirit will inspire you, if in fact it is that Holy Spirit that is leading you towards heresy.

BTW, don’t make yourself out to be a martyr here when you’re the one throwing out criticism of the Church you profess to be a member of.

 

[Zahava]

I agree, and it is displeasing to God. This is why I am thinking of leaving CAF to spend more time studying God.s Word

Please start with the Hebrew Bible, allischalmers…Genesis

When I did just as you said you want to do "spend more time stydying G-ds’s Word. I started with the Hebrew Bible.

chabad.org/library/article.htm/aid/63255/jewish/The-Bible-with-Rashi.html

 

[st_lucy]

Wouldnt know, Im not Protestant. As far as the Catholic understanding goes, SCripture is Scripture, and Tradition is Tradition. If what you are doing has you at peace, the God bless.

From the CCC
97 “Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture make up a single sacred deposit of the Word of God” (DV 10) in which, as in a mirror, the pilgrim Church contemplates God, the source of all her riches.

Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture are the same without Sacred Tradition we wouldn’t have Sacred Scripture and vica versa.

Just my two cents.

Also just another comment on your idea that rituals take away from God, it was God who set them up to strengthen our souls for the long journey to our final destination. Heaven. Isn’t He a wonderful caring Father to think of us so much and to know what we need!

 

[latinmasslover]

Also just another comment on your idea that rituals take away from God, it was God who set them up to strengthen our souls for the long journey to our final destination. Heaven. Isn’t He a wonderful caring Father to think of us so much and to know what we need!

Wonderful point and beautifully put.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

From the CCC
97 “Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture make up a single sacred deposit of the Word of God” (DV 10) in which, as in a mirror, the pilgrim Church contemplates God, the source of all her riches.

Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture are the same without Sacred Tradition we wouldn’t have Sacred Scripture and vica versa.

Just my two cents.

Also just another comment on your idea that rituals take away from God, it was God who set them up to strengthen our souls for the long journey to our final destination. Heaven. Isn’t He a wonderful caring Father to think of us so much and to know what we need!

worth more than 2 cents!

 

[thecoach]

From the CCC
97 “Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture make up a single sacred deposit of the Word of God” (DV 10) in which, as in a mirror, the pilgrim Church contemplates God, the source of all her riches.

Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture are the same without Sacred Tradition we wouldn’t have Sacred Scripture and vica versa.

Just my two cents.

Also just another comment on your idea that rituals take away from God, it was God who set them up to strengthen our souls for the long journey to our final destination. Heaven. Isn’t He a wonderful caring Father to think of us so much and to know what we need!

My comment actually, was " I was never as at peace and felt as close to God as I do now that I am not as concerned with ritual or teaching, but only the Word of God." Nowhere do I say they take away from God.
My main objection to ritual is when it becomes more of a focus than what they are to point to. When language is more important than the meaning itself, that is an issue for me.

 

[dbacks5439]

My comment actually, was " I was never as at peace and felt as close to God as I do now that I am not as concerned with ritual or teaching, but only the Word of God." Nowhere do I say they take away from God.
My main objection to ritual is when it becomes more of a focus than what they are to point to. When language is more important than the meaning itself, that is an issue for me.

Language leads to understanding. Mt. 16:16-19 is a prime example. In the Greek text, it was understood that Peter is to be the Rock that the Church is built on. In English, it is a different meaning, and that’s where you have different interpretations. I’m guessing you’re one of those “let’s all feel good” type of people. By not focusing on the rules, regulations, and rituals, you lose discipline. How can you become holier without discipline. By tossing out the rules, aren’t you tossing out the meaning? Standing during the Eucharistic Prayer instead of kneeling is taking away the significance of Christ’s sacrifice.

Another reason we have rules, laws, and regulations is because we are a Kingdom. In fact, we are the Davidic Kingdom in the most perfect sense. Christ came to perfect the law, not do away with it. By giving Peter the Keys (cf. Is. 22:22), Jesus instituted and perfected the Davidic Kingdom, the Church with the Pope as the Prime Minister. Without rules, you have anarchy.

 

[John_Hiner]

My comment actually, was " I was never as at peace and felt as close to God as I do now that I am not as concerned with ritual or teaching, but only the Word of God." Nowhere do I say they take away from God.
My main objection to ritual is when it becomes more of a focus than what they are to point to. When language is more important than the meaning itself, that is an issue for me.

Laudatur Iesus Christus.

Grace is the life of God. God is love. Grace is the love which God has for Himself. Or, to put it more palpably for the modern ear, Grace is the love of the Father for the Son and the Son for the Father, in the Holy Spirit. This is eternal and abundant life – the very basis of all being and reality.

Essentially, the Liturgy of the Church is not about us. It is the love of God for God. In this sense, it is not the meaning which we take from the action which matters; it is the ontological reality of the message from the Son to the Father and the meaning intended by the Son and understood by the Father which matter.

Our salvation lies in our being allowed to participate in this flow of love among the Persons of God. The Sacraments of the Church are the means by which Christ with and in His Church is saving the world.

It is a mistake to think that it is one’s subjective understanding which saves. One’s motives and holiness are means by which one participates in the work of the Liturgy. The more fully we conform to Christ the more fully we engage in His work. However, without the Sacraments, we would merely be imitations of no import or substance. It is the Sacraments which transform our meager efforts into the Sacrifice of Christ, which is God’s love itself.

Without this. no good act of men, no matter how similar to the actions or attitudes of Christ, would be salvific. They would have the form, but not the substance. Happily, because of the continuing Sacrifice and the other Sacraments which make it possible, all good done by all men, even those who do not know Christ or explicitly belong to the Catholic Church, offer the possibility of salvation.

This is the gist of the Letter to the Hebrews. Once one appreciates it, one should never prefer private satisfaction or knowledge to the public work (“liturgy”) of Christ and His Church.

Pax Christi nobiscum.

John Hiner

 

[boppaid]

Amen!!! Im sure God looks down and says:nope: I just love reading thw Word of God It is like I cant get enough of it:thumbsup: :extrahappy:

Right now I am having some down time from bible studies and I do feel a little vunerable because Im not in the Word as much as I will be in a couple of weeks.

I’m in the middle of an old Beth Moore study about the old testament tabernacle. I LOVE IT! I am doing it with a Christian friend of mine, and it is WONDERFUL! It makes me want to read my bible all.the.time.

 

[boppaid]

There’s a Baptist I know, anti-Catholic (not against the person, but the religion) and his only response was “you’re wrong, you’re wrong…” and he would never back up that statement. You’re doing the same thing because you know that what you’re saying has no grounds.

I think this poster isn’t backing up his claims because the point of this thread was that he was tired of debating, and decided, instead, to use his energy toward living in God’s word. I think both Catholics and non-Catholics can agree that reading Scripture is a better use of time than debating on a board. I applaud him!

 

[boppaid]

For Christians, the Word of God is a Person, not a Book – the Person of Jesus Christ, God Incarnate. Jesus founded a Church, the Catholic Church, which under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, determined which of the many available writings on Christ were to constitute the New Testament.

I am sorry to serial post. But I jsut wanted to point out that you probably meant to say “Catholic Christians” rather than simply Christians. Because I don’t think other non-catholic Christians feel that way.

 

[boppaid]

I think the bickering would cease if we all spoke to each other from an attitude of love rather than self-righteousness.

Also, it’s not always WHAT is said, but HOW it’s said.

Just my two cents.

Oh, and YES to this!! I totally agree. It is so disheartening how uncharitable people can be to one another.

 

[Contarini]

I am sorry to serial post. But I jsut wanted to point out that you probably meant to say “Catholic Christians” rather than simply Christians. Because I don’t think other non-catholic Christians feel that way.

Surely all Christians should agree that the Word of God refers primarily to Christ. John 1:1 and all that. . . .

It refers secondarily to Scripture, and the Catholic Church does use the phrase in that way. However, when we hear “Word of God” all Christians who believe the Bible should think primarily of Christ. That most Protestants do not is evidence that some priorities have gotten skewed somewhere.

Edwin

 

[AgnosTheist]

However, when we hear “Word of God” all Christians who believe the Bible should think primarily of Christ. That most Protestants do not is evidence that some priorities have gotten skewed somewhere.

What do most Protestants think about when they hear the phrase “Word of God”?

 

[Contarini]

What do most Protestants think about when they hear the phrase “Word of God”?

Well, for much of my life I would have thought of the Bible. I think this is pretty common. It’s actually very common to say simply “the Word” and mean the Bible, as in “we really got deeply into the Word in our Thursday night Bible study.”

Edwin

 

[AgnosTheist]

Well, for much of my life I would have thought of the Bible.

I think most catholics would react the same way. Anyway I dont think it matters much. What is important is following the teachings of Jesus. He was much more into teaching basic love for god and interpersonal relationships than actual hardcore doctrines. He did not even see any urgency in telling people that he is god.