The More I Read

[Genesis315]

I think most catholics would react the same way. Anyway I dont think it matters much. What is important is following the teachings of Jesus. He was much more into teaching basic love for god and interpersonal relationships than actual hardcore doctrines. He did not even see any urgency in telling people that he is god.

But what is basic love? He came to bear witness to the Truth, because without the Truth, we cannot know how to truly love. The world offers many counterfeit loves, from the superficial to the downright sinful. It is the “hardcore doctrines” that provide the guideposts for which is true and which is false. This is why St. John, the Apostle who teaches us that God is Love, is also the most harsh in his epistles concerning those who bring lies and heresies.

 

[thecoach]

Language leads to understanding. Mt. 16:16-19 is a prime example. In the Greek text, it was understood that Peter is to be the Rock that the Church is built on. In English, it is a different meaning, and that’s where you have different interpretations. I’m guessing you’re one of those “let’s all feel good” type of people. By not focusing on the rules, regulations, and rituals, you lose discipline. How can you become holier without discipline. By tossing out the rules, aren’t you tossing out the meaning? Standing during the Eucharistic Prayer instead of kneeling is taking away the significance of Christ’s sacrifice.

Another reason we have rules, laws, and regulations is because we are a Kingdom. In fact, we are the Davidic Kingdom in the most perfect sense. Christ came to perfect the law, not do away with it. By giving Peter the Keys (cf. Is. 22:22), Jesus instituted and perfected the Davidic Kingdom, the Church with the Pope as the Prime Minister. Without rules, you have anarchy.

Well you guess wrong, you dont know me, and your character judgement shows, lets just say, a lack of good fruit on your part. Funny thing, Jesus’ main objection to the Pharisees was just that, the letter of the law and rules vs. their true meaning and purpose. You need to read St. PAul a lot more. And, if as you say, Christ came to perfect the law(which is incorrect, HE FULFILLED it, so that the law nolonger applies, again, read Paul), then please tell me you are kosher, you celebrate Passover, and youre circumcized. If not, then your whole point is moot.

 

[thecoach]

I think this poster isn’t backing up his claims because the point of this thread was that he was tired of debating, and decided, instead, to use his energy toward living in God’s word. I think both Catholics and non-Catholics can agree that reading Scripture is a better use of time than debating on a board. I applaud him!

Thank you!!

 

[AgnosTheist]

But what is basic love? He came to bear witness to the Truth, because without the Truth, we cannot know how to truly love.

a lot of Jesus’ message revolved around the concept of the Gold Rule. Something that is familiar in many parts of the world 500 years before jesus.

 

[Priscilla_Ann]

What do most Protestants think about when they hear the phrase “Word of God”?

I was a Catholic for 38 years and have been a non-Catholic for 11 years. The “Word of God” has always been the Bible to me.

 

[dbacks5439]

Well you guess wrong, you dont know me, and your character judgement shows, lets just say, a lack of good fruit on your part. Funny thing, Jesus’ main objection to the Pharisees was just that, the letter of the law and rules vs. their true meaning and purpose. You need to read St. PAul a lot more. And, if as you say, Christ came to perfect the law(which is incorrect, HE FULFILLED it, so that the law nolonger applies, again, read Paul), then please tell me you are kosher, you celebrate Passover, and youre circumcized. If not, then your whole point is moot.

Law no longer applies? Hmm, I believe Jesus also commanded us to keep the Law.

He did both. He fulfilled the Law by His sacrifice on the Cross. He also perfected the Law by saying that even if one looks at another with lust, adultery has been committed. So I was correct.

I am circumcised. I also celebrate Passover. It’s called the Eucharist. Again, Christ took the Passover celebration and perfected it. I guess if I have faith in Jesus Christ, I can kill anyone I want without reprimand:shrug: Sure ain’t no law stopping me.

 

[nonsumd]

I am sorry to serial post. But I jsut wanted to point out that you probably meant to say “Catholic Christians” rather than simply Christians. Because I don’t think other non-catholic Christians feel that way.

In Islam, the Word of God is a book, the Qur’an.

In Christianity, the Word of God is foremost, a Person, the Person of Jesus Christ.

The Qur’an proclaims its own importance as a means to salvation. The Gospels do not show Jesus writing books or ordering books to be written. That is more the sort of thing that “prophets” do, be they Muhammad or Joseph Smith.

When I wrote “Christians,” I meant all Christians, not only Catholics or Orthodox.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

I was a Catholic for 38 years and have been a non-Catholic for 11 years. The “Word of God” has always

been the Bible to me.

Well, you’ve proven Edwin’s point, Priscilla Ann, and you are now a Protestant.

Robert

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

What is important is following the teachings of Jesus. He was much more into teaching basic love for god and interpersonal relationships than actual hardcore doctrines. He did not even see any urgency in telling people that he is god.

Interesting post, Agnos Theist.

Could you be a little more specific on Jesus’ teaching “basic love for [G]od and interpersonal relationships”?

Also, what do you mean by “actual hardcore doctrines.” I’m thinking about what he said about murder and adultery (pretty hardcore, more so than the Jewish law) and I have no idea what doctrines you mean here.

And, one final request, where in the NT is it referred to as Jesus not seeing “any urgency in telling people that he is god”?

Thanks

Robert

 

[Priscilla_Ann]

Well, you’ve proven Edwin’s point, Priscilla Ann, and you are now a Protestant.

Robert

The more I read the Bible the less Catholic I became…until I realized I was no longer Catholic at all.

 

[lak611]

The more I read the Bible the less Catholic I became…until I realized I was no longer Catholic at all.

I had the opposite reaction. I was baptized as an infant, went to CCD, Catholic high school and Catholic college, but fell away as an adult in my twenties. I was not practicing any religion for 5 years. Somebody from the Baptist church gave me a KJV Bible. I had never read the Bible before and decided to read it, since I was searching for meaning in my life. After reading a Protestant Bible all the way through, I returned to the Catholic Church, finally understanding the truths of the Catholic Church which I previously did not. Now I am active in my parish and have been attending Catholic Bible study at my parish for 6 years now.

 

[Contarini]

I think most catholics would react the same way. Anyway I dont think it matters much. What is important is following the teachings of Jesus. He was much more into teaching basic love for god and interpersonal relationships than actual hardcore doctrines. He did not even see any urgency in telling people that he is god.

Since you are not a Christian, you really don’t get to tell us what is important for Christians. Following Jesus’ teachings may of course be much more important for the One True Church of Agnostheism But for Christians Jesus Himself is the center. His teachings, as you have pointed out elsewhere, were anticipated in many of their salient points by other great teachers, though I would still say that there are some important distinctives.

Edwin

 

[Priscilla_Ann]

I had the opposite reaction. I was baptized as an infant, went to CCD, Catholic high school and Catholic college, but fell away as an adult in my twenties. I was not practicing any religion for 5 years. Somebody from the Baptist church gave me a KJV Bible. I had never read the Bible before and decided to read it, since I was searching for meaning in my life. After reading a Protestant Bible all the way through, I returned to the Catholic Church, finally understanding the truths of the Catholic Church which I previously did not. Now I am active in my parish and have been attending Catholic Bible study at my parish for 6 years now.

Wow! The exact opposite of my experience. God does work in mysterious ways!

 

[crenfro]

It is a mistake to think that it is one’s subjective understanding which saves.

John Hiner

I loved your whole post, and especially, this line. Thank you.

 

[deb216]

The more I read this forum, and the more I read my Bible, the more sensitive I become to all the almost non-stop bickering and senseless arguing. St. Paul warned Timothy and Titus against such futile pursuits. It seems to me this is the nature of denominations, I guess. However, I seem to be developing more of a “Christian” mindset than denominational. For all the times I used to defend the Catholic faith, and it was many, I was never as at peace and felt as close to God as I do now that I am not as concerned with ritual or teaching, but only the Word of God.

Funny how that is. The more I read the Bible, the more I realized that only the Catholic Church had the fullness of truth. The more I talk to people who are not Catholic, the stronger my faith becomes. I am surrounded by non-Catholic Christians; family and friends alike. My goal is to convert them all to the Lord’s Church, one heart at a time.

So far, so good! Thanks be to God.

 

[Tonks40]

Funny how that is. The more I read the Bible, the more I realized that only the Catholic Church had the fullness of truth. The more I talk to people who are not Catholic, the stronger my faith becomes. I am surrounded by non-Catholic Christians; family and friends alike. My goal is to convert them all to the Lord’s Church, one heart at a time.

So far, so good! Thanks be to God.

And on the subject of the “law” and liturgical practices, my understanding of how the liturgy (prayer), especially through the Mass, is one of the most wonderful expressions of our focus on God through Jesus Christ. When seen through the eyes of love for God, one cannot help but do their best to adhere to it. It’s the case of God being put it the proper place of our hearts, not the law superseding God.

 

[thecoach]

Law no longer applies? Hmm, I believe Jesus also commanded us to keep the Law.

He did both. He fulfilled the Law by His sacrifice on the Cross. He also perfected the Law by saying that even if one looks at another with lust, adultery has been committed. So I was correct.

I am circumcised. I also celebrate Passover. It’s called the Eucharist. Again, Christ took the Passover celebration and perfected it. I guess if I have faith in Jesus Christ, I can kill anyone I want without reprimand:shrug: Sure ain’t no law stopping me.

you understanding lacks depth

 

[thecoach]

Well, you’ve proven Edwin’s point, Priscilla Ann, and you are now a Protestant.

Robert

So? What is wrong with that? SHouldnt we be joyous that she is first and foremost a Christian? St. Paul says it well, it is him or Apollos or Kephas that saves, but Christ Himself, so the divisions need to cease!

 

[nonsumd]

Laudatur Iesus Christus.

Grace is the life of God. God is love. Grace is the love which God has for Himself. Or, to put it more palpably for the modern ear, Grace is the love of the Father for the Son and the Son for the Father, in the Holy Spirit. This is eternal and abundant life – the very basis of all being and reality.

Essentially, the Liturgy of the Church is not about us. It is the love of God for God. In this sense, it is not the meaning which we take from the action which matters; it is the ontological reality of the message from the Son to the Father and the meaning intended by the Son and understood by the Father which matter…

John, such a beautiful post and so true!

So many contemporary Christians, including many Catholics, approach worship and religion in general with what is ultimately a “me-centered” rather than a “God-focused” mindset. They seek a form of worship they can “get more out of,” and so they content themselves with “services” that mimic the gatherings of the world, the concerts, the lectures, the rallies.

Our Catholic liturgy, on the other hand, aims to take us out of this mundane world – it should be “strange” to our worldy sensibilities, it should nurture in us the feeling that we are “strangers” in this world, focusing us on our journey home to our true home with God in heaven. The liturgy, indeed, when we bring to it the eyes of faith, **is ** heaven on earth.

That God is love, that love is His very essence, makes full sense only when we understand God as Three in One. The love that is God is not “self-love” in the sense that a human being with his one “person” has self-love; it is the one divine being whose three persons love each other. Your post wonderfully demonstrates how this truth is expressed in the Mass.

…Happily, because of the continuing Sacrifice and the other Sacraments which make it possible, all good done by all men, even those who do not know Christ or explicitly belong to the Catholic Church, offer the possibility of salvation…

Very true, it is God’s salvific will, realized in Christ’s Sacrifice and the liturgy that re-present that Sacrifice continually, that bestows the grace of the desire to conform to God’s wil and to be saved even upon those who through no fault of their own are not visibly members of the Catholic Church.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

But it seems to me, coach, that you are saying, not that “Christ is the way” (which is truth), but that ‘any one who professes Christ, even if s/he rejects the Catholic Church, instituted by Christ, the first Church, the ‘one-holy-catholic-apostlic’ Church which was, is and remains’ is, simply by calling himself/herself Christian and professing SOME truths, is following the way just as much. . .

And as for divisions, the only way to stop them is for all to be one. . .in union, correct? Not for the divisions to remain but for everybody to agree, “your way is just the same as our way”.

So really, what you’re saying is “we’re all following Christ in our own way, that is what is REALLY important, so everybody should stop trying to become ONE and just stop arguing with each other and let them go to God in their own way”.

That is NOT the same at all as being in union. What is really important is not following Christ in OUR OWN WAY, but in HIS way. That is, through the Catholic Church He instituted and which The Holy Spirit still guides. Wonderful Christians though our Protestant brothers and sisters may be in their thoughts and actions, they still lack the fullness they would have were they exercising their ‘following Christ’ in His Church. . .His ONE Church.

God bless.