The mystery of Hitler

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When we say “may his name be erased” we are asking that it be as if his name was never recorded in the book of life.
I understand that. Why would you want any human’s name erased from the Book of Life? I hope Hitler sincerely repented. we may never know, and since we are not God, we cannot condemn even Hitler to Hell – although we can speculate that he almost certainly is.
 
Fr Gabriel Amorth is not a “Vatican exorcist”, he is an exorcist of the Diocese of Rome. The Diocese of Rome and the Vatican are not the same thing. This is tabloid sensationalism at its greatest.
Okay, so he is the exorcist of Rome–I did not write the article. I will take an exorcist’s word over Karl Keating’s any day regarding this issue.
 
I understand that. Why would you want any human’s name erased from the Book of Life? I hope Hitler sincerely repented. we may never know, and since we are not God, we cannot condemn even Hitler to Hell – although we can speculate that he almost certainly is.
I can’t condem Hitler to hell. I can only pray that he is there. I do not believe that we live in a world where a person like Hitler can do what he did and still find redemption with God. I understand that is a Christian belief. It is not a Jewish belief. Hitler, the evil one, has no share in the world to come.
 
I can’t condem Hitler to hell. I can only pray that he is there. I do not believe that we live in a world where a person like Hitler can do what he did and still find redemption with God. I understand that is a Christian belief. It is not a Jewish belief. Hitler, the evil one, has no share in the world to come.
well I guess we will all find out the truth one day;) but since we are not God we can not assume anything
 
well I guess we will all find out the truth one day;) but since we are not God we can not assume anything
Here’s what one Catholic visionary said that upon Hitler’s death , the Lord stretched out his arms and said, “Now do you believe?” And Hitler it was said went right down to hell.
 
Here’s what one Catholic visionary said that upon Hitler’s death , the Lord stretched out his arms and said, “Now do you believe?” And Hitler it was said went right down to hell.
well… we still dont know…that is unless you personally have taken a tour of “hell” and seen him there…no one can be sure…unless they are God 🙂
 
Here’s what one Catholic visionary said that upon Hitler’s death , the Lord stretched out his arms and said, “Now do you believe?” And Hitler it was said went right down to hell.
This is interesting – who said this? Why did Jesus stretch out his arms?
 
Imagine you are standing on the edge of a vast pit. So large that you cannot really see the other end. Millions of other people surround the pit. Men, women, children. They are all naked. You can feel that somone is watching you. In your hand is a bayonette. Every 1,000 yards, behind the throng of people are tables laden with food and wine, but only for you.

You choose to start murdering people with the bayonette. One by one you impale each person, push them off the blade and they tumble into the pit. Some cry, some are silent. Some curse. SOme even curse God, feeling that He’s abandoned them. Every few hours you reach a table and realx for a bit, drinkig a little, eating a little. Fortunately, all your favorite foods are there. Each table also has a bible. Sometimes you read from it for a bit. sometimes you don’t.

Then you choose to return to the edge of the pit and continue impaling the naked, men, women and children there, until you work your way around to the next table.

This continues for years. Everytime you sit at the table, you eat a little, drink a little, read a little. Then you get up and choose to continue working your way around the pit. Until finally the pit is full and there is only you standing at the edge. You make your way to the last table, where you notice the Bible laying there. You turn and look at the pit, filled with millions of dead bodies in various stages of decay and you are overcome with remose and ask God for fogiveness.

Then you die.
 
Thank you. I do understand however that there is a basic difference here between how christians view evil acts and how Jews view them. THere is nothing in our theology that would require us to pray for the soul of Hitler. Quite the opposite.
Wow…I was just reading over old posts, and missed this reply To suggest that Catholics are *required *to pray for the soul of Hitler is a sladerous remark void of charity. Nice one.
 
“Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow”(Is 1:18). I wonder if even such a person can’t be forgiven.
Imagine you are standing on the edge of a vast pit. So large that you cannot really see the other end. Millions of other people surround the pit. Men, women, children. They are all naked. You can feel that somone is watching you. In your hand is a bayonette. Every 1,000 yards, behind the throng of people are tables laden with food and wine, but only for you.

You choose to start murdering people with the bayonette. One by one you impale each person, push them off the blade and they tumble into the pit. Some cry, some are silent. Some curse. SOme even curse God, feeling that He’s abandoned them. Every few hours you reach a table and realx for a bit, drinkig a little, eating a little. Fortunately, all your favorite foods are there. Each table also has a bible. Sometimes you read from it for a bit. sometimes you don’t.

Then you choose to return to the edge of the pit and continue impaling the naked, men, women and children there, until you work your way around to the next table.

This continues for years. Everytime you sit at the table, you eat a little, drink a little, read a little. Then you get up and choose to continue working your way around the pit. Until finally the pit is full and there is only you standing at the edge. You make your way to the last table, where you notice the Bible laying there. You turn and look at the pit, filled with millions of dead bodies in various stages of decay and you are overcome with remose and ask God for fogiveness.

Then you die.
 
I jsut want to make a simple comment…

I think we need to be careful when saying someone “that evil” must have been posessed. For starters, such a statement attempts to seperate someone like that from us. “There is no way he was human… otherwise he wouldnt have done that” Sad fact is, he was human… he probably wasnt possessed, and each and everyone of us in the right circumstances can be capable of it.

We need to also look at the over all history.

For starters, If hitler Died in say 1936ish (before full scale jewish seperations)… he would have been noted as being antisemitic, But over all, people would probably treat him as a savior to Germany. He did manage to turn a faltering country into one that was once again self sufficient.

Also, he didnt start out with the idea of exterminating them. Originally, he wanted simply to move them out of Germany Proper. As their territory expanded, they kept gaining mroe Jews. The amount of resources needed to keep the jewish population continued to explode. So, they started using them as slave labor. …

ultimatly, even that was proving too expensive to keep up. so, as a group, the top Nazi’s met to discuss how to “fix” the situation. Mass murder was not the initial plan… Nor was it Hitlers… It was also not Hitlers decision alone, he merely signed off on it.
It was simply the result of a long slow decent. Sorta the Frog in a hot pan situation. It was so gradual, people didnt think it was “that bad”

Fact is, it was that bad… and I am not trying to belittle it. I only want to point out that the path was very long, winding and slow. It didnt start in 1938, it started in 1917. The German Population as a whole BLAMED the Jewish people for thier losing WW1. By the time Hitler came to power in 1933, there was already 15 years of building Hatred for the Jewish people. Hitler didnt Cause the Holocoust, he was the Spokeperson for its evil. He supported it, but he was the result of an entire nations fall.

ALL THAT BEING SAID…
I am NOT belittling the situation
I am NOT asking for sypathy for the Nazis.
I am saying we need to understand the history of it.
We need to also understand that Hitler was VERY much human and each of us CAN be that evil.

This is a touchy subject. Forgive me if I inflammed any ones emotions… Not the intent and I appologize ig I do

In Christ
 
This morning as we were discussing “Schindler’s List,” my wife asked me how Hitler could be as he was. This made me speechless. I can’t imagine why Hitler could be so evil. This is a mystery to me, at least. I wonder what others think of this? How can there be such a person?
Was Hitler Catholic?
I heard somewhere there were some documents between Pope Pius XI or Pius XII and the Nazis. Any truth to this?
 
Intersting thread, I was not sure if you guys were aware of this but Hitler was a practioner of magick, and a Theosophist…Madame Blavatsky’s teachings on the root races (The Secret Doctrine) had a profound affect on his views of the superiority of the German race. She claimed that the “Hidden Elect” communicated to her through telepathy, the Hidden called her their chosen one and they would reveal to her the occult roots and secrets of the human race. She believed the most pure was the Aryan race, the 5th race, the hope of mankind. The German race alone held traces of the ancient Aryans in their blood, that the downfall had been the bestiality, the mating with what they saw as subhuman races, resulting in a great mixture. They believed that the early Germans had great psychic powers, and that the race mixing had cost them their most precious third eye, their spiritual insight. They did not believe they were a pure Aryan race anymore, that was the point, they believed that the greatest downfall of their race was the intermixing with the Jews. So they sought to destroy them, lowering the risk of them mixing, to purify once again their blood.

A Theosophists wrote that there was no need for a Christian Hell, when Hell was here right now, the torture of the impure blood coursing through the German’s veins. They walked away from Christianity, the SS were ordered to abandon the teachings of the Church and embrace their earlier roots. The blood of the great German dead replaced the blood of Christ. The power was in the blood. The goal was to search out the purest blood, (psychics would be valued, as their third eye was still open) And have them only create children with others like them, each generation becoming more pure than the last, they needed Aryans to see that there would indeed be a thousand year reign. So millions of innocent men, women, and children were slaughtered…Remember their motto…”Out of Chaos comes a New World Order”.

He was seen as a type of Anti-Christ. Countess Von Westarp, a member of the Thule society, prophesied that a German messiah was to come, she saw Hitler as a false prophet that would lead Germany to defeat. A “Savage” Messiah. The Thule society was the precursor to the Nazi Party. When Hitler was asked by those close to him what they should do if he was to die, he was quoted as saying…“Look for the man”. He was referring to the anti-christ. There was times when his aides would run to Hitlers room at night, alarmed at his screaming, they would find him shaking and pointing at the corner of his room…screaming…“He 's here…He’s here”.

Himmler, Hitler’s second hand man, was a practicing Black magician. If you ever get a chance look up Wewelsburg Castle. It contained Himmler’s Hall of Records, the ancient castle that was rebuilt complete with the underground room, an inner chamber made of stone, and alter and a round table, which would hold 13 chairs, one for Hitler at the head of the table, and 12 others for the men closest to him. There was also 13 large containers, to hold the ashes of each after death. It was rumored that human sacrifice took place in that hidden chamber. One of the rooms is built with windows arranged like Stonehenge, with a symbol of the black sun in the middle.Hitler had the castle bombed to protect its secrets, but much survived.

The Swastika was a very ancient occult symbol, but Hitler perverted it, he reversed it, the feet on the wheel now face backwords, no longer towards life but towards destructon. To people that revered the sign as one of life, as the Tibetan priests did, this was like taking the cross and placing it upside down with broken arms.

Hitler was obsessed with Holy objects as well, such as the Heilige Lance (Spear of Destiny) a He first saw the spear at the Hofburg museum while living in Vienna. It is said that it drew him, and he stared at it for hours.

Hitler himself claimed that after that fateful day he was illuminated and saw in a flash that his blood that flowed through his veins would one day be the vessal of the Folk spirit of his people. In 3/1938 Hitler had Austria annexxed to Germany, thanked God for reuniting his country with the Third Reich…he finally possessed the spear. He had it placed deep below Nuremburg Fortress, where hundreds of years before it was placed to keep it from Napoleons grasp. He believed the legend that whosoever holds it and solves the puzzle holds the destiny of the world (Spear of Destiny) in his hands, whether for the good or for evil. It was believed to be magical because there is “Power in the blood”, it had spilled Holy blood. The dark side also believes that there is power in the blood. Legend also stated that when the spear dropped from the owners hands they would loose their supernatural powers, the same day Hitler had the spear hidden deep within the mountain, he died!
 
Was Hitler Catholic?
I heard somewhere there were some documents between Pope Pius XI or Pius XII and the Nazis. Any truth to this?
Yes, Hitler was a Catholic, most members of the SS were. Even Heinrich Himmler (he was called the Black Jesuit) was raised a devoit Catholic and at one time considered joining the priesthood. The problem came when they decided they wanted to BE gods.

This may help you see more into his spiritual outlook. Hitler did not want to destroy religion, he wanted to create his own, with the role of God played by him. Consider this old prayer taught to German children in nursery school in the 1940’s:

“Führer, my Führer, by God given to me
Defend and protect me as long as may be
Thous’t Germany, rescued from her deepest need;
I render thee thanks, who dost daily feed me,
Stay by me forever, or desperate my plight
Führer, my Führer, my faith, my light,
Hail, my Führer”

Isn’t that what Lucifer desired?

I meant to add, Hitler duped the Church, the Church were not part of it, Hitler put on a big show for them. The Nazi party made referanced to “God” all the time. God was invoked in Speeches and oaths. But he was not the same GOd that you think of. That is how they tricked so many. The SS oath swearing loyalty to the death ended in “So War Mir Gott Helfe” (so help me God). Their god was a supreme being, a blend of theosophy and paganism.
 
Was Hitler Catholic?
I heard somewhere there were some documents between Pope Pius XI or Pius XII and the Nazis. Any truth to this?
Hitler was born, baptized, and confirmed as a Catholic. He even served as an altar boy.

The Church had dealings with all nations – then as now. The Church did not oppose Nazism as strongly as it might have at the very beginning of Hitler’s rule. Some attribute this to the fact that churches in Germany are supported with taxpayer money – to speak out against the government too forcefully might result in those funds being cut off.

That should be a lesson for those who seek a sort of partnership between the state and the Church – no matter how good our intentions, such a partnership can never be a good thing for the Church.
 
Was Hitler Catholic?
I heard somewhere there were some documents between Pope Pius XI or Pius XII and the Nazis. Any truth to this?
Hitler was baptized a Catholic. There was a concordant (treaty) between the Church and the Nazi regime.
 
Hitler was baptized a Catholic. There was a concordant (treaty) between the Church and the Nazi regime.
Hitler was anything but a faithful practicing Catholic, so this is a ready straw man argument.

The concordant was a diplomatic document…have you ever read it? Have you actually looked into the facts of the history of that time? I didn’t see any atheists standing up to Hitler or making statements against Nazism or working to save the lives of thousands of people, both Jews and Catholics and others…

No but I do see Pius XII doing more than any other leader of that time and the Vatican doing more publicly and secretly than any other government in the world, and I’m not only ok with that I’m pretty pleased that my church’s leaders set me that kind of example.

Evil people happen the same way the bumper sticker expressed it…but I think it’s rotten to talk smack about the Catholic Church when the facts prove you dead wrong.
 
My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)
 
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