The myth of Adam and Eve

[OneSheep]

I was asking what is God’s purpose for creation?

Good Morning

It’s a very interesting question.

CCC 760 offers this:

God created the world for the sake of communion with his divine life,

Which probably raises new questions rather than really provide a satisfying answer for those who witness the suffering of others, experiencing their suffering, and suffering themselves.

To me, the answer has to come from within. I know why I am here, why my life has purpose. If I could possibly know the Final Answer from God on the question you raised, I’m pretty sure that it would not change my own answer as to why I am here.

Does the question you ask come from a position of despair? I do not want to presume.

Would you agree that our own purpose in life includes doing all we can to end suffering?

I am thinking, from your posts, that you may share my purpose in making the world a better place. If this is so, what is your vision?

 

[Memaw]

When the angels fell, they were not in heavenm abnd when our first parents fell, they were not in heaven, so there is no decrease of beings in heaven.

Thank you! It’s frightening how little some of us know about the very basics of our Catholic Faith. It’s no wonder some are so easily pulled away from the One, True Faith. God Bless, Memaw

 

[guanophore]

CCC 760 offers this:

God created the world for the sake of communion with his divine life,

Which probably raises new questions rather than really provide a satisfying answer for those who witness the suffering of others, experiencing their suffering, and suffering themselves.

Questions that are well addressed by Catholic Teaching. Communion with His divine life includes communion in His human life, which is one of suffering.

10that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Phillip. 3:10

12Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you; 13but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation. 1 Pet 4:13

16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him. Romans 8:17

I agree that making sense of suffering is essential for human beings. For Catholics, it means joining our sufferings to His.

To me, the answer has to come from within. I know why I am here, why my life has purpose. If I could possibly know the Final Answer from God on the question you raised, I’m pretty sure that it would not change my own answer as to why I am here.

Would you agree that our own purpose in life includes doing all we can to end suffering?

I am thinking, from your posts, that you may share my purpose in making the world a better place. If this is so, what is your vision?

I think we should do all that we can to alleviate suffering, but I don’t believe it can be “ended” in this world. I think that Christ provided a way for us to suffer redemptively.

We can put our light on a table, and be salt to the world, but ultimately nothing will make the world a better place until Christ comes again. Satan is the god of this world, and while he is permitted to reign over it, all those who follow Christ will be persecuted.

 

[simpleas]

Michael Jackson’s HEAL THE WORLD is now playing in my head!

 

[guanophore]

Michael Jackson’s HEAL THE WORLD is now playing in my head!

LOL. At least we can bring healing to our little corner of it. This little light of mine, I’m gonna let it shine.

 

[simpleas]

LOL. At least we can bring healing to our little corner of it. This little light of mine, I’m gonna let it shine.

Oh no, now I’ve got another one playing in my mind!!

True though,if we can help change a little part of our world for the better it’s a good thing.

 

[Vico]

O SON OF MAN! Veiled in My immemorial being and in the ancient eternity of My essence, I knew My love for thee; therefore I created thee, have engraved on thee Mine image and revealed to thee My beauty. - Baha’u’llah

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/HW/hw-4.html

I am confident the Catholic perspective for God’s purpose for creation is similar, namely, to know God, and to worship Him through deeds of love.

.

From Baltimore Catechism No. 3:

Q. 150. Why did God make you?
A. God made me to know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him forever in the next.

Q. 151. Why is it necessary to know God?
A. It is necessary to know God because without knowing Him we cannot love Him; and without loving Him we cannot be saved. We should know Him because He is infinitely true; love Him because He is infinitely beautiful; and serve Him because He is infinitely good.

Q. 152. Of which must we take more care, our soul or our body?
A. We must take more care of our soul than of our body.

Q. 153. Why must we take more care of our soul than of our body?
A. We must take more care of our soul than of our body, because in losing our soul we lose God and everlasting happiness.

Q. 154. What must we do to save our souls?
A. To save our souls, we must worship God by faith, hope, and charity; that is, we must believe in Him, hope in Him, and love Him with all our heart.

Q. 155. What does “worship” mean?
A. “Worship” means to give divine honor by acts such as the offering of prayer or sacrifice.

Q. 156. How shall we know the things which we are to believe?
A. We shall know the things which we are to believe from the Catholic Church, through which God speaks to us.

Q. 157. What do we mean by the “Church, through which God speaks to us”?
A. By the “Church, through which God speaks to us,” we mean the “teaching Church”; that is, the Pope, Bishops, and priests, whose duty it is to instruct us in the truths and practices of our religion.

 

[guanophore]

Who were the first two humans then? Do we need two fully healthy complete humans to have started the human race, or is it all a matter of survival. Should they have been complete in terms of spirituality, (in that they did not sin), or are we just part of the journey to perfection as human beings and the story of Adam and Eve depending on how the individual understands it, will either take them to a higher way of living or lower way?

catholic.com/quickquestions/given-the-evidence-for-evolution-are-catholics-required-to-believe-adam-and-eve-exist

 

[Bahman]

1. There’s no reason to believe that the angels were not given some freedom of choice.

Where we could then find peace of mind if we could even sin in Heaven? Moreover Heaven become empty if doing sin is possible for person with free will.

1. It is important to remember that this story is a myth (a story bearing Truth). We do not know the exact action that took place, but we do know that it had to do with man’s desire to be like God, or to be His equal. But for our relationship with God to be pure and based in Truth, we need to understand that we are not God’s equal. He is Creator, we are created.

What is the teaching value of the story? Why human has desire to become God? Why we should be punished if becoming God is a deep desire in human being? Simply it is how we are created.

1. How can God allow evil to happen? If He was a tyrannical ruler, or ‘robot programmer’ (which He could have done) then we would all make all the right actions at all the right times, but they would not be out of love for Him. They would be out of ‘programming.’ In this case, there is not genuine relationship. Even though our ‘yes’ would be prompt and absolute, it would be completely devoid of meaning. And if our ‘yes’ is meaningless, than our state of grace in heaven is rendered meaningless as well. Is that what is best for us?

I don’t think so.

Why we are not created with enough wisdom, like God, and be sinless? We can never be in state of peace because we are subject to sinning and falling always.

What I think is interesting is that in the story of The Fall we see our desire to be like God, which is the complete opposite of the mindless robot analogy I used. But when we challenge the ‘wisdom’ of God to put the Tree of Knowledge in the garden in the first place we immediately ask something along the lines of ‘why not make us perfect choice-making robots’?

Any thoughts?

The story of fall in fact indicate we always under threat of doing sin so we can never have salvation.

 

[Bahman]

When the angels fell, they were not in heavenm abnd when our first parents fell, they were not in heaven, so there is no decrease of beings in heaven.

Luke 10:18 "And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.”

 

[Bahman]

I don’t think you have a “belief system”. I think you have a “disbelief system”!

I am happier to be an unbeliever rather than being a believer to a system of belief with tons of errors.

 

[Vico]

Where we could then find peace of mind if we could even sin in Heaven? Moreover Heaven become empty if doing sin is possible for person with free will.

What is the teaching value of the story? Why human has desire to become God? Why we should be punished if becoming God is a deep desire in human being? Simply it is how we are created.

Why we are not created with enough wisdom, like God, and be sinless? We can never be in state of peace because we are subject to sinning and falling always.

The story of fall in fact indicate we always under threat of doing sin so we can never have salvation.

Romans 5
18 In conclusion, just as through one transgression condemnation came upon all, so through one righteous act acquittal and life came to all. 19 For just as through the disobedience of one person the many were made sinners, so through the obedience of one the many will be made righteous. 20 The law entered in[f] so that transgression might increase but, where sin increased, grace overflowed all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through justification for eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[f] 5:20 The law entered in: sin had made its entrance (Rom 5:12); now the law comes in alongside sin. See notes on Rom 1:18–32; 5:12–21. Where sin increased, grace overflowed all the more: Paul declares that grace outmatches the productivity of sin.

 

[Bahman]

… and for us to find our ultimate purpose in him…

What is the ultimate purpose?

 

[Bahman]

Good Morning

It’s a very interesting question.

CCC 760 offers this:

God created the world for the sake of communion with his divine life,

Which probably raises new questions rather than really provide a satisfying answer for those who witness the suffering of others, experiencing their suffering, and suffering themselves.

To me, the answer has to come from within. I know why I am here, why my life has purpose. If I could possibly know the Final Answer from God on the question you raised, I’m pretty sure that it would not change my own answer as to why I am here.

Does the question you ask come from a position of despair? I do not want to presume.

No.

Would you agree that our own purpose in life includes doing all we can to end suffering?

I am thinking, from your posts, that you may share my purpose in making the world a better place. If this is so, what is your vision?

That is an interesting purpose but I don’t think if it is ultimate purpose. God leaves us in state of suffering and we try to overcome suffering so what then? To me the purpose is to grow endlessly.

 

[davidv]

Where we could then find peace of mind if we could even sin in Heaven? Moreover Heaven become empty if doing sin is possible for person with free will.

This statement suggests strong that you have no idea of heaven is, and what it is like. In heaven, our love of God in heaven will always win over any potential desire to sin.

What is the teaching value of the story? Why human has desire to become God? Why we should be punished if becoming God is a deep desire in human being? Simply it is how we are created.

We are given a way out of this supposed slavery. Jesus, the Son of God, beat death, and we are availed of as much grace as needed to overcome temptation.

Why we are not created with enough wisdom, like God, and be sinless?

That is not how God chose to do it. I trust Him more that you. God will equip us with as much grace as we need to overcome sin.

We can never be in state of peace because we are subject to sinning and falling always.

Agreed, which why we must acknowledge our sins, repent and turn back to God.

The story of fall in fact indicate we always under threat of doing sin so we can never have salvation.

We have a perfect defense against this threat. It is the love of God and neighbor.

 

[Gorgias]

Luke 10:18 "And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.”

It’s an expression that compares Satan to lightning. Where does lightning come from – the sky, or from God’s abode in heaven? From the sky, of course! So… Jesus is saying that he saw Satan fall. What did that look like? Why, like lightning going from the sky to the earth!

You seem to be misinterpreting it as if Jesus had said “I saw Satan fall from heaven. Like lightning.”

 

[Gorgias]

I am happier to be an unbeliever rather than being a believer to a system of belief with tons of errors.

What if your perception of “tons of errors” is itself in error?

 

[Gorgias]

That is kinda strange to me if we could sin in Heaven. This means that heaven becomes empty after a while.

We – meaning humans – cannot “sin in Heaven.” Making that assumption implies that you’re conflating angels with humans; we’re two completely different types of creatures.

The nature of angels is such that they have knowledge and have been in God’s presence since their creation. Yet, they have free will – and their ability to exercise that free will expressed itself in their single decision of whether to obey God or not. Having made that decision, they will continue on in its consequences throughout all eternity (not entirely like saints or the damned, who will continue on in the consequences of their life choices for all eternity). Both humans and angels make a choice (although the choice of humans takes place throughout our entire lives). Both humans and angels reach a point at which their choice is permanent and unchanging.

 

[Vico]

Luke 10:18 "And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.”

It is an analogy, that is why the work like is used – like, conjunction: “as though; as if”.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

No.

That is an interesting purpose but I don’t think if it is ultimate purpose. God leaves us in state of suffering and we try to overcome suffering so what then? To me the purpose is to grow endlessly.

So you will never be satisfied with any answers then. You never want to say "Aha, now I get it!’ and have a certain peace and faith in your life. You just want to keep growing and asking endless questions your entire life. Good luck with that, it sounds extremely futile and a little childish.