The New Catholic Church? Have the Rules Really Changed?

  • Thread starter Thread starter TruthSkr
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Exactly. Thank you. These conversations were not complicated. The issue being discussed was very simple. It either is or is not a mortal sin to have sex with your spouse that does not include sexual intercourse.
 
edwest211 said:
A priest said the following on Catholic Radio: “Things went nuts in seminaries in the 1970s.” The corruption had come in, with bad to very bad effects afterward.
Click to expand...
I totally agree. That was part of my point, but I didn’t want to go into that. I did say there were a lot of dissent professors in the seminaries back then.

My archdiocese was somewhat shielded from some of the madness due to Cardinal Krol. However, we were not 100% protected. I’m only reporting on what my pastor, who attend a fairly orthodox seminary in the 1960s and 1970s said regarding the change he noticed at the seminary.

At dissent seminaries, things went nuts, like you mentioned.
 
Last edited:
Salibi said:
Sex, even marital sex, without intent of procreation is a big fat sin.
Click to expand...
I am not sure about that. There are couples who cannot procreate, such as the elderly, or if the husband is sterile. And if they are married, they can have sex even though they know that they cannot procreate.
TruthSkr said:
Or have the rules really changed?
Click to expand...
Maybe they have somewhat. Before VII the primary purpose of marriage was procreative, the secondary unitive. However, I thought that i read that currently these purposes are considered to be coequal.
TruthSkr said:
He said “but the people on the website are anonymous”.
Click to expand...
This is very true.
 
Last edited:
phil19034 said:
40.png
paperwight:
No, we don’t have to intend to procreate every time we have sex.
Click to expand...
No, but it needs to be ordered towards procreation.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. But this was not what the poster I was responding to claimed.

They claimed that sex must be performed ‘with the intent to procreate’.
 
Last edited:
Why would someone keep asking multiple priests something that has such an obvious and easily accessible answer?
 
Sir, I’m going to make a couple assumptions so forgive me if they are incorrect but here is my non-expert opinion.
It appears you have an issue with how you and your wife are being intimate. As of right now you have 3 priests telling you that it’s not sinful and 1 that is telling you that it is. Based on what I have found, it appears that if you follow the letter of what is written, it is sinful. However, the reasons why it’s considered sinful seem to be because of situations that don’t apply to your situation. Does it matter? Cannot say. I’m sure someone here will give you more than enough reasons that will convince you that they do. To me, most things aren’t black and white and it’s probably enough for some people to call me “cafeteria Catholic”.
In my opinion, stop over thinking the situation and continue to love your wife as best as you can. At the end of the day, a priest you respect told you it was ok. He went so far as to talk privately with you for as long as you needed to tell him the whole story. Then, after it was all said and done, he told you that you had nothing to worry about.
That’s my 2 cents…I pray that you will find the answer you are looking for. God bless. Vivat Jesus.!
 
I’d not say that this is something “wrong with the Church”. You have had some experiences where you were given incorrect instructions.

Are all of the priests who gave you these instructions from the same area? All around the same age? Perhaps they attended a seminary where there was less that stellar formation.

I would honestly suggest you ask for an appointment with someone from your Diocese so you can speak about your concerns. They are nice people and will take time to talk to you.
 
jrgmercado said:
as of right now you have 3 priests telling you that it’s not sinful and 1 that is telling you that it is.
Click to expand...
That’s not what the OP wrote.

Priest #1 reportedly said it was not a MORTAL sin. Not clear whether he said “it’s not a sin at all, not even venial”.

Priest #2 reportedly said it WAS a MORTAL sin.

Priest #3 is reported as saying only that a wife has the right to have sex with her husband. It is not clear whether all the issues surrounding the sex, like physical inability to have intercourse, were discussed.

Priest #4 is the only one reported as saying this was “not a sin” at all.

There is a significant difference between asking “is this act a Mortal Sin” and “is this act sinful at all”.
 
Last edited:
I imagine That if either of you are disabled it would change the circumstances. Procreation doesn’t have to be the primary intention, but you can’t intentionally avoid the procreative aspect. I would think that if you avoid intercourse because one of you is disabled then that isn’t a problem, because sex isn’t only about procreation.
 
It seems that he told his pastor and the pastor gave him an answer he didn’t expect. Then he got a second opinion and that opinion was the opposite of the pastors, so he got a third and that confirmed his pastors view. Then he got a fourth opinion which confirmed his pastor again. It is the same thing I would do. It is confusing.

If either him or his wife have a disability that prevents intercourse I would definitely affirm his pastors view; but I am just a random person on the internet who has no authority and am just going off my own understanding.
 
phil19034 said:
it’s POSSIBLE that some of those priests never learned about the Theology of the Body.
Click to expand...
Does anyone know what if any obligations there are or might be for Catholic clergy to keep up with Papal teaching? And from everything I’ve seen, even in more liberally-associated Catholic schools or institutions, Theology of the Body as per St. JPII is pretty standard teaching. So I’d be surprised if a Diocesan priest were unaware of it, as I imagine it would likely be covered in the seminary.
 
Last edited:
I don’t have the answers you need, but I am praying for you and your wife. I share your frustrations with knowing who to trust
 
SeraficLeo said:
So I’d be surprised if a Diocesan priest were unaware of it, as I imagine it would likely be covered in the seminary.
Click to expand...
Theology of Body would NOT have been taught in the Seminaries back in the 1970s. St. John Paul didn’t publish for the universal Church until around the time he was shot. While he wrote most of it while an Archbishop, he didn’t present it to the universal Church as Pope until the early 1980s.

So priests who were ordained in the 1970s would not have been taught Theology of the Body while in Seminary.

Now, I also didn’t mean to imply that a they would have never heard of it. But there are many older priests who have never formally studied it, because they were already priests when it was universally released.

That’s what I meant.

God Bless
 
It is meant to be authoritative. That is why the Church promotes it. It should not be ignored since it is for our benefit.
 
Last edited:
TOTB is a lovely set of writings, however the Church’s teaching on the marital act has been around since the beginning. A priest does not have to have read TOTB to instruct his parishioners.

Not that you are saying so, just, for the readers out there.
 
Babaganoush said:
And what if biology makes that impossible?
Click to expand...
Then, as my confessors say, then you can’t have sex.

My wife has issues with sex, so I often have to go a very long time without it. I used to engage in unchaste intimate acts with my wife. And every single priest I confessed my multiple sins too conquered that I must remain chaste if she’s not willing to engage in intercourse.

Many of the priests have also suggested finding a good Catholic marriage counselor to try to figure out why my wife has issues with sex.

So, while I don’t have a medical situation, my wife does have a physiological issue preventing us from sex. And my multiple confessors encourage me to remain chaste and consider this a Cross for me to bare.

God Bless
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top