The 'New Evangelization' for Catholics ... why not join with the Protestant Evangelicals ?

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Bill Bright developed a dynamic, winning idea for a tract 50 years ago. It forms the heart for the very successful evangelism efforts of non-denominational Protestant organization called Campus Crusade for Christ.

link: www.4laws.com/laws/english/flash/
Its 4 Spiritual Laws and Sinner’s Prayer … have brought millions to discover a Personal Relationship with Christ.

Lets join the CC [Catholic Church] with the CC [Campus Crusade] ----- brother/sisters working together to fulfill the Great Commission in 21st Century, in the spirit of Ecumenism !

CC & CC … bringing a New Pentecost ‘awakening’ to this World & the Church of the Apostles to ‘feed’ them for a lifetime / eternity !
 
Do you mean we should become Protestant? I’d rather not - been there, done that.
 
Do you mean we should become Protestant? I’d rather not - been there, done that.
No … The Campus Crusade for Christ is an organization, non-denom, that witnesses for Christ — via their Tract, THE FOUR SPIRITUAL LAWS.

They are not a Church, but they tell all they lead to Christ to become active in a Church.

They have the winning Tract … we have the winning Church. A marriage made in heaven ?
 
Their zeal, for sure, but doctrine and methods?

Even as a Protestant I didn’t care for the “prepackaged gospel” approach. It always seemed too much like selling a product. Are we really interested in the person, or just in getting immediate and visible results? And what kind of results are they going to be? If all you have to do is say a prayer and you’re set, why be active in a Church which makes moral demands?

God can of course work through these things. He is not going to turn someone away who turns to him in faith. But we can make it harder for people to develop spiritually, and to persevere in grace, if we teach them all they have to do is believe and say a prayer.

I think the people at Campus Crusade are good and sincere people, but I would not be comfortable using their materials or their methods.
 
This group may not be a “church” but they are non-denominational, which IS a Christian denomination. My own experience with non-denom is that it is all happy-go-lucky rainbows and butterflies. More of motivational speaking than anything else. I don’t care for it. At. All.
 
You’re kidding me right? Why would we want to join with them with such a over-simplified and deficient gospel message when we have our own materials that are far far better.

Examples:
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                                                                        CIL Tract: Sound Bites on Salvation (set of 25)
catalog.osv.com/images/products/P421_150.gif Questions Catholics Are Asked: Are You Saved? Author: Paul Thigpen List Price: 15.95 US$
Package of 50
There are more, but here’s why we should never join them.
Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?
This group may not be a “church” but they are non-denominational, which IS a Christian denomination. My own experience with non-denom is that it is all happy-go-lucky rainbows and butterflies. More of motivational speaking than anything else. I don’t care for it. At. All.
Besides, I happen to know that their follow on material will conflict with Catholic doctrine since they espouse Sola Scriptura.
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No … The Campus Crusade for Christ is an organization, non-denom, that witnesses for Christ — via their Tract, THE FOUR SPIRITUAL LAWS.
The 1st, 2nd, & 3rd “laws” are OK, but the 4th is Protestant & the “sinner’s prayer” is Protestant.

How would you convice Campus Crusade to change them to Catholic-friendly wording?
 
This group may not be a “church” but they are non-denominational, which IS a Christian denomination. My own experience with non-denom is that it is all happy-go-lucky rainbows and butterflies. More of motivational speaking than anything else. I don’t care for it. At. All.
Amen! Pop-psychology replaces the Cross in so many of these movements … one of dozens of reasons I am now proud to be Catholic!
 
That’s a good question, but I think a much better question would be why don’t evangelical protestants join with us? Why don’t they accept the fullness of the faith and join us? If we join them we abandon and lose so very much, amongst other things we lose 2000 years of solid teaching and tradition, we lose the real presence in the Eucharist, and in return we get all too often what a protestant theologian --albeit a darn good one – named Dietrich Boehnhoffer calls a “cheap discipleship.” Heaven help us if our faith gets watered down to four spiritual laws, and Ray Comfort handing out bananas and jars of peanut butter while asking us if we’re good people who’ve kept all of God’s commandments.

I am sorry, but having come from an Assembly of God and Southern Baptist background even the thought of such a thing makes me very ill. I should note that my qualms have nothing against echuminical activity as I am all for that, but to do things like protestant street slam evangelism/harrasment? Sorry, I did enough enough of that to know that it doesn’t work and drives people away. Certainly one should use words, but without love in action and friendship words don’t mean all that much.
 
Well, the Evangelicals’ enthusiasm is good and I like that they are out there sharing their message. I do think Catholics could learn from them.

But I do not recommend teaming up with them because:
  1. Catholics and Non-denominationals have different beliefs, which is going to end up confusing inquirers who want to learn about the Christian faith.
  2. Most non-denominationals are pretty anti-Catholic in their materials. They even teach that Catholics are not Christians! :eek:
They do not believe in the pope, in purgatory, or in the Communion of Saints. They do not honor Our Lady Mary or St. Joseph. They do not have the Eucharist and do not believe there are seven Sacraments. They do not have Confession. They believe in Sola Scriptura and once saved, always saved. They are missing seven books of the Bible.

(As you can see there are many differences in faith/doctrine, and these are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. I’m sure there are many more.)
 
THE CURSE OF BROADMINDEDNESS
Bishop Fulton J. Sheen
Taken from the book “Moods and Truths”
Published in 1932

“The Catholic Church is intolerant.” … When proof for this statement is asked, it is retorted that the Church is intolerant because of its self-complacency and smug satisfaction as the unique interpreter of the thoughts of Christ. Its narrow-mindedness is supposed to be revealed in its unwillingness to cooperate effectively with other Christian bodies that are working for the union of churches.
… The eyes of Jesus and Annas met, and the first world conference on religion opened. Annas, ironically feigning surprise at the sight of the prisoner whom multitudes followed the week before, opened the meeting by asking Jesus to make plain two important religious matters, the two that were discussed later on in Lausanne and Geneva and Stockholm, namely, the question of His doctrine and the question of His ministry. Our Lord was asked by a religious man, a religious leader, and a religious authority, representative of the Common faith of a nation, to enter into discussion, to sit down to a conference on the all-important questions of religion-ministry and discipline-and He refused! And the world’s first Church Conference was a failure.
In so many words Jesus said to Annas: “You imply by your questioning that I am not Divine; that I am just the same as the other rabbis going up and down the country-side; that I am another one of Israel’s prophets, and at the most, only a man. I know that you would welcome Me to your heart if I would say that I am only human. But no! I have spoken openly to the world. I have declared My Divinity; I say unto you, I have exercised the right of Divinity, for I have forgiven sins; I have left my Body and Blood for posterity, and rather than deny its reality I have lost those who followed Me, who were scandalized at My words. It was only last night that I told Philip that the Father and I are One, and that I will ask My Father to send the Spirit of Truth to the Church I have founded on Peter, which will endure to the end of time. … And if your first principle is that I am not Divine, but am just human like yourself, then there is nothing in common between us. So, why asketh thou Me to discuss doctrine and ministry with you?”…
… I know that you will welcome me to your conferences if I say I am not Divine; I know Ritualists throughout the world feel the need of my ceremonials, and would grasp my hand if I would but relinquish my claim to be Divine; I know a recent writer has argued that the great organization of the Church could be the framework for the union of all Christendom, if I would give up my claim to be the Truth; I know the church doors of the world would rejoice to see me pass in ; I know your welcome would be sincere; I know you desire the union of all Christendom-but I cannot. ‘Why do you ask me?’ if your first principle is that I am not Divine, but just a human organization like your own, that I am a human institution like all other human institutions founded by erring men and erring women. If your first principle is that I am human, but not divine, then there is no common ground for conference. I must refuse."
Such indifference to the oneness of truth is at the root of all the assumptions so current in present-day thinking that religion is an open question, like the tariff, whereas science is a closed question, like the multiplication table. …This kind of broadmindedness which sacrifices principles to whims, dissolves entities into environment, and reduces truth to opinion, is an unmistakable sign of the decay of the logical faculty.
Now this is precisely the attitude of the Church on the subject of the world conferences on religion. She holds that just as the truth is one in geography, in chemistry, and mathematics, so too there is one truth in religion, and if we are intolerant about the truth that two times two equals four, then we should also be intolerant about those principles on which is hinged the only really important thing in the world, namely, the salvation of our immortal soul. If the assumption is that there is no Divinity, no oneness about truth, but only opinion, probability, and compromise, then the Church must refrain from participation. Any conference on religion, therefore, which starts with the assumption that there is no such thing as truth, and that contrary and contradictory sects may be united in a federation of broad¬mindedness, must never expect the Church to join or cooperate.
The world may disagree with the Church, but the world knows very definitely with what it is disagreeing. In the future as in the past, the Church will be intolerant about the sanctity of marriage, for what God has joined together no man shall put asunder; she will be intolerant about her creed, and be ready to die for it, for she fears not those who kill the body, but rather those who have the power to cast body and soul into hell. She will be intolerant about her infallibility, for “Lo,” says Christ, “I am with you all the days even unto the end of the world.” And while she is intolerant even to blood, in adhering to the truths given her by her Divine Founder, she will be tolerant to those who say she is intolerant, for the same Divine Founder has taught her to say: “Father, forgive them, they know not what they do.”
There are only two positions to take concerning truth, and both of them had their hearing centuries ago in the court-room of Solomon where two women claimed a babe. A babe is like truth; it is one; it is whole; it is organic and it cannot be divided. The real mother of 'the babe would accept no compromise. She was intolerant about her claim. She must have the whole babe, or nothing-the intolerance of Motherhood. But the false mother was tolerant. She was willing to compromise. She was willing to divide the babe-and the babe would have met its death through broadmindedness.

Peace
 
Bill Bright developed a dynamic, winning idea for a tract 50 years ago. It forms the heart for the very successful evangelism efforts of non-denominational Protestant organization called Campus Crusade for Christ.

link: www.4laws.com/laws/english/flash/
Its 4 Spiritual Laws and Sinner’s Prayer … have brought millions to discover a Personal Relationship with Christ.

Lets join the CC [Catholic Church] with the CC [Campus Crusade] ----- brother/sisters working together to fulfill the Great Commission in 21st Century, in the spirit of Ecumenism !

CC & CC … bringing a New Pentecost ‘awakening’ to this World & the Church of the Apostles to ‘feed’ them for a lifetime / eternity !
That would be to dignify that which was manufactured by Man–i.e.–protestantism–with that which was designed, established and founded by the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, and therefore by God–i.e.–the Catholic Church–by placing them on equal footing.

That wouldn’t be ‘evangelizing’–that would be confusing, and contradictory–and arbitrarily leading some to Truth, and others…into deception.

Now, that said–all Campus Crusade has to do to rectify the situation, is to subordinate itself to the One, True, Holy, Catholic & Apostolic Church that Jesus Christ Himself founded, come into full communion with her, direct all of its targeted souls to her…and we’d be golden! 👍
 
You’re kidding me right? Why would we want to join with them with such a over-simplified and deficient gospel message when we have our own materials that are far far better.

Examples:
grottopress.org/assets/images/db_images/db_a_Salvation10.jpg
http://www.grottopress.org/assets/images/spacer.gif
Name
Code:
                                                                        http://www.grottopress.org/assets/images/spacer.gif
                                                                        CIL Tract: Sound Bites on Salvation (set of 25)
catalog.osv.com/images/products/P421_150.gif Questions Catholics Are Asked: Are You Saved? Author: Paul Thigpen List Price: 15.95 US$
Package of 50
There are more, but here’s why we should never join them.
Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?

Besides, I happen to know that their follow on material will conflict with Catholic doctrine since they espouse Sola Scriptura.
Code:
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Well, we Catholics need to learn from our Protestant Brethren … who are dedicated to Evangelization, and are fearless for the Faith, and are ‘on fire’ for the Lord, and fulfilling the Great Commission of Christ, that started with the First 12 Apostles … and now becomes our mission, at the call of JP2 the Great [who met with these Evangelicals and was inspired by them and gave his ‘tacit’ approval to working with them in Ecumenical efforts],----- later Benedict, and now Francis is trying to light a fire under us Catholics show / live our zeal for Christ, via Apologetics/Evangelization to the lost !!!

If our Tracts are superior, so be it … lets use them instead. But, we need to incorporate / coordinate our efforts with the Evangelical Protestants ---- who have ‘far more’ experience than most Catholics in evangelizing. Scott Hahn has a new EWTN program on the NEW EVANGELIZATION. Last evening he and others brought up CAMPUS CRUSADE FOR CHRIST … as a group who is doing what our Popes have called on us Catholics to be doing. Scott Hahn had great praise for Campus Crusade, and believes our Pope should be calling on all young Catholics to give 1-2 years to Catholic Evangelization efforts … like the Mormons do !!!

Scott Hahn has good ideas, we should listen to him ---- and get organized and have an INTERNATIONAL Evangelical Program. Most people don’t even know what Catholics believe … we never talk our faith to them. How can we sit-on-our-hands any longer … and let the Protestants do all the Evangelization ? We need to be at the forefront the
Evangelization of the World.
 
Well, we Catholics need to learn from our Protestant Brethren … who are dedicated to Evangelization, and are fearless for the Faith, and are ‘on fire’ for the Lord, and fulfilling the Great Commission of Christ, that started with the First 12 Apostles … and now becomes our mission, at the call of JP2 the Great [who met with these Evangelicals and was inspired by them and gave his ‘tacit’ approval to working with them in Ecumenical efforts],----- later Benedict, and now Francis is trying to light a fire under us Catholics show / live our zeal for Christ, via Apologetics/Evangelization to the lost !!!

If our Tracts are superior, so be it … lets use them instead. But, we need to incorporate / coordinate our efforts with the Evangelical Protestants ---- who have ‘far more’ experience than most Catholics in evangelizing. Scott Hahn has a new EWTN program on the NEW EVANGELIZATION. Last evening he and others brought up CAMPUS CRUSADE FOR CHRIST … as a group who is doing what our Popes have called on us Catholics to be doing. Scott Hahn had great praise for Campus Crusade, and believes our Pope should be calling on all young Catholics to give 1-2 years to Catholic Evangelization efforts … like the Mormons do !!!

Scott Hahn has good ideas, we should listen to him ---- and get organized and have an INTERNATIONAL Evangelical Program. Most people don’t even know what Catholics believe … we never talk our faith to them. How can we sit-on-our-hands any longer … and let the Protestants do all the Evangelization ? We need to be at the forefront the
Evangelization of the World.
I watched the program - an ongoing series with Scott Hahn, Ralph Martin, and Michael L…? Some of Hahn’s witness was perhaps born from his early days as a Protestant. I was very surprised that he, usually a staunch Catholic to the core, was suggesting Catholics need to outreach our evangelization efforts similar to JW’s, Mormons, et al. I did not agree with all of his theories, but I think he was speaking about the principle of getting involved with our neighbors. Ralph Martin was more practical in his approach.
 
The 1st, 2nd, & 3rd “laws” are OK, but the 4th is Protestant & the “sinner’s prayer” is Protestant.

How would you convice Campus Crusade to change them to Catholic-friendly wording?
I wouldn’t dare change of thing with the 4 Laws, and especially the last Confessional Sinner’s Prayer. When I prayed it many years ago, and added in the ‘equivalent’ of the Catholic Jesus Prayer [my own version, heart-felt with full contrition] … well, I had my NEW PENTECOST confirmation in HS.

That’s when I experienced ‘justification’ grace — rebirth Adoption & spiritual Illumination by HS. It was not accompanied by speaking in tongues, but just an overpowering, supernatural conviction of complete forgiveness & adoption by God via Christ.

Many have had life-changing conversions via the FOUR LAWS AND SINNER’S PRAYER ‘confessional’ ----- via Evangelization witness of Christians to the unsaved. Why would we want to change a ‘proven’ means of converting the lost ? Add to it, Yes ! More info on need of the saved to join Church [the Universal Church of Apostles] … and to be Water Baptized at once !! And, get the saved into RCIA and Bible Studys !!!
 
A—That’s a good question, but I think a much better question would be why don’t evangelical protestants join with us?

B–Heaven help us if our faith gets watered down to four spiritual laws, and Ray Comfort handing out bananas and jars of peanut butter while asking us if we’re good people who’ve kept all of God’s commandments.

C—I am sorry, but having come from an Assembly of God and Southern Baptist background even the thought of such a thing makes me very ill. I should note that my qualms have nothing against echuminical activity as I am all for that, but to do things like protestant street slam evangelism/harrasment?

D—Sorry, I did enough enough of that to know that it doesn’t work and drives people away. Certainly one should use words, but without love in action and friendship words don’t mean all that much.
A— Many have joined the CC from the Protestant churches. But, perhaps more have left the CC for the Protestant life.

B – You trivalize the good work evangelist do. Please re-think on this !

C — It was two Assembly of God brethren who brought the FOUR LAWS to my dorm room one night !! Thank the Lord those two Protestant brethren were out evangelizing. Don’t you realize when we go out ‘two by two’ … God directs us to those most in need of the Gospel message. We are not on our own !! Neither we the first 12, in their mission / evangelization efforts.

D – Once people come to Christ, then they watch us to see what type life we live. I had no idea that night what lives those two brethren lived. I just knew they were giving me the message I needed … and it was a powerful one, that was most EFFICACIOUS, and LIFE-CHANGING. When the Gospel is preached … God changes hearts and lives !!
 
  1. Most non-denominationals are pretty anti-Catholic in their materials. They even teach that Catholics are not Christians! :eek:
Campus Crusade does not !! They don’t preach any one Church … they are non-denom.

They are favorable to the Catholic Church. They value the Pope and ALL CHRISTIANS.

They have had a MASSIVE influence in many lives. Mine, Scott Hahn’s … and MILLIONS others. Many who later ended in the the Catholic Church !!

God saves us where we are … then he leads us to the Catholic Church, in many cases !!
 
That would be to dignify that which was manufactured by Man–i.e.–protestantism–with that which was designed, established and founded by the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, and therefore by God–i.e.–the Catholic Church–by placing them on equal footing.

That wouldn’t be ‘evangelizing’–that would be confusing, and contradictory–and arbitrarily leading some to Truth, and others…into deception.

Now, that said–all Campus Crusade has to do to rectify the situation, is to subordinate itself to the One, True, Holy, Catholic & Apostolic Church that Jesus Christ Himself founded, come into full communion with her, direct all of its targeted souls to her…and we’d be golden! 👍
Again, Campus Crusade for Christ … is non-denom. They keep their independence … so they can not be accused of being ‘this or that’ Protestant church. They only preach CHRIST, AND CHRIST CRUCIFIED !!! Just like St. PAUL did. They allow ANY CHRISTIAN, to share in with their mission of EVANGELIZATION OF GOSPEL.

Then, they encourage the saved to find the Church that best suits them !! They don’t preach this or that Church.

If Scott Hahn speaks highly of them … they need to be taken seriously … for the good work they do. Scott Hahn wishes our Catholic Church would take note of their mission, and adopt their success in Evangelization to our own needs !! Maybe not join them… but, learn from them … and improve our mission & evangelization successes !!
 
Wait a minute…I came home from non-denom faith communities several years ago, and the portrayal of n-Cs as evangelistic is actually overblown. Generally there are a handful of them that are into “witnessing”, but they’re a small percentage, and about equal to us Catholics. I know this from personal experience.

Worse still, most are so badly trained that aside from giving away tracts, they really aren’t very effective. Their witnessing can be very aggressive and I’ve seen them pretty much drive seekers off with it rather than win them.

Material-wise, we Catholics have far better resources, even for just Tracts from CA and Catholic Tracts from Grotto Press as well as Our Sunday Visitor’s Tracts. Not to mention the outstanding CDs and MP3s from John Martignoni’s Bible Christian Society and Lighthouse Catholic Media.

As far as cooperation, we are often alongside Evangelicals and n-Ds in various other aspects of evangelism, such as pro-life, food pantries, homeless ministry, and such, but when it comes to presentation of the Gospel, we have problems because theirs is actually a different Gospel which leads people to believe that they can “get saved” as a one-time event and that is not at all what we believe and preach. That whole concept is tight with the errant doctrines of OSAS and Sola Fide, so it just won’t work.

Certainly, we Catholics need to be busy about Our Father’s business and at work in His vineyards, but teaming up with Campus Crusade, or any other n-Cs is not the way to go.

Just as John Martignoni says, we need to be sharing the fullness of the truth and nothing less.because I agree with him that God wants everyone to be Catholic.

St. John Chrysostom: “Zeal for the salvation of souls is of so great a merit before God that to give up all our goods to the poor or to spend our whole life in the exercises of all sorts of austerities cannot equal the merit of it. There is NO service more agreeable to God than this one. To employ life in this blessed labor is more pleasing to the Divine Majesty than to suffer martyrdom.”
 
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