The one man and his revolation of the"Quran".

[Irene72]

How can I be sure it [the quran]
came from God?
How did muhammad convince others that it was from God?
How can a person put their soul on the line and say “I believe you”?
It might be easier for one if it came from many people; but why “one man”? God has never done that before.
For the converts what made you revert and stay?
How can one believe this one man? this one human man? This one sinner?

 

[hamba2han]

How can I be sure it [the quran]
came from God?
How did muhammad convince others that it was from God?
How can a person put their soul on the line and say “I believe you”?
It might be easier for one if it came from many people; but why “one man”? God has never done that before.
For the converts what made you revert and stay?
How can one believe this one man? this one human man? This one sinner?

There is indeed a way to identify the true Author of the Qur’an.

 

[Sister_Amy]

How can I be sure it [the Quran]
came from God?

Perhaps it should be self-evident. Have you read it, to even see what it says? That would be a place to start. Many Muslims believe that the Qur’an’s supreme eloquence is proof that was not written by a man. The Arabs at the time of Muhammad were masters of poetry–and yet Muhammad who had never composed a single line of poetry began to speak the Qur’an which he said had been revealed to him by God. Just like in the verse in Deuteronomy which says, “I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.” The Arabs used to critique each other’s poetry, changing words to make them more emphatic and such. But nobody ever tried to critique the Qur’an–it was too powerful for them. Many other Muslims believe that the Qur’an contains scientific insights which were unknown to the people in 7th century Arabia, which proves that it could not have been authored by God. Many other Muslims believe that the Qur’an confirms what came before it of revelation (like the messages of Moses and Jesus) and is the final message in a series. Some Muslims believe that the miracles of the Qur’an lie in the knowledge of the unseen world, things that nobody could have known except for God have been revealed in the Qur’an.

How did Muhammad convince others that it was from God?

Early on, after he had only received a few revelations, God commanded Muhammad to preach Islam to the people. So he got up on a mountain and called the people around him. He asked them, if he told them that there was an army coming from behind that mountain, would they believe him? And they said that they had never heard any lie from him. He established his credibility–they would believe him if he had said that. And then he told them that he was a warner, warning them of the punishment of the Hereafter. They rebuked him.

But the people who did believe in him–they believed because of the power of the Qur’an. He didn’t have to ‘convince’ anyone, they would hear it and the truth of it, strength of it, and beauty of it convinced them that it was from God.

How can a person put their soul on the line and say “I believe you”?

Muhammad was known as the most trustworthy among his people. The truths of the Qur’an were proven many times. There would be a prophecy, about (for example) the unlikely victor in a battle some years in the future, the Qur’an was correct. Also, when Muhammad’s family rebuked him, the Qur’an basically said that his uncle would never embrace Islam. All that uncle had to do, to prove Muhammad was wrong, was just utter fatih in Islam, even if it was a lie, but he wouldn’t do it!

The character and behavior of Muhammad was what convinced people, in addition to the Qur’an. Some people just upon seeing or hearing Muhammad would take his religion, knowing that he is not a liar.

It might be easier for one if it came from many people; but why “one man”? God has never done that before.

Of course he has. When God inspired Moses, did the Children of Israel have a book with them (like the Bible)? Or did they just believe that Moses was inspired? What about Noah? Wasn’t Noah alone when preaching to his people? Or Abraham! This is nothing new, with Muhammad.

For the converts what made you revert and stay?

Qur’an.

How can one believe this one man? this one human man? This one sinner?

It is easy to believe one man, when his statements ring true and are backed up with proof. I mean, the Qur’an appealed to me when I knew nothing about the life of Muhammad–Qur’an alone was that strong that I knew it couldn’t be the words of a liar. And it is easy to believe one man, who is known. But a variety of people who are unknown, telling contradictory stories, somehow collected into the same book? A far more dubious tale, I think. I only have to worry about what ONE MAN said, and if I can follow that. Not the sayings of dozens or hundreds of men who I don’t even know how they lived or why they wrote what they did.

I think Islam is definitely the natural and logical conclusion. It’s so much easier to believe.

 

[Eden]

There are so many scientific and historical errors in the Quran and so much has been abrogated. For instance, doesn’t allah know how babies are made?

youtube.com/watch?v=DDDaV3lS8CI

And why did allah need to correct himself by abrogating stuff he changed his mind about?

The Quran’s Doctrine of Abrogation

In an attempt to polish Islam’s image, Muslim activists usually quote verses from the Quran that were written in the early days of the Islamic movement while Mohammed lived in Mecca. Those passages make Islam appear loving and harmless because they call for love, peace and patience. Such is a deception. The activists fail to tell gullible people that such verses, though still in the Quran, were nullified, abrogated, rendered void by later passages that incite killing, decapitations, maiming, terrorism and religious intolerance. The latter verses were penned while Mohammed’s headquarters was based in Medina.

When speaking with people of Christianized/Western societies, Muslim activists deliberately hide a major Islamic doctrine called “al-Nasikh wal-Mansoukh” (the Abrogator and the Abrogated). This simply means that in situations wherein verses contradict one another, the early verses are overridden by the latter verses. The chronological timing in which a verse was written determines its authority to establish policies within Islam. Non-Muslims cannot afford to be ignorant about the full implications of the Abrogator and the Abrogated Doctrine (al-Nasikh wal-Mansoukh). When Islamic spokesmen say that Islam is a religion of peace and that the Quran does not support such things as human rights infractions, gender bias and terrorism, they are lying. This means that the Western politicians and liberal journalists, who continually spout that Islam is a noble religion of peace, are in reality propagating a deception that they have been deceived into parroting.

The rest is here:

islamreview.com/articles/quransdoctrine.shtml

 

[Sister_Amy]

:yawn:

 

[Angelos]

Perhaps it should be self-evident. Have you read it, to even see what it says? That would be a place to start. Many Muslims believe that the Qur’an’s supreme eloquence is proof that was not written by a man. The Arabs at the time of Muhammad were masters of poetry–and yet Muhammad who had never composed a single line of poetry began to speak the Qur’an which he said had been revealed to him by God. Just like in the verse in Deuteronomy which says, “I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.” The Arabs used to critique each other’s poetry, changing words to make them more emphatic and such. But nobody ever tried to critique the Qur’an–it was too powerful for them. Many other Muslims believe that the Qur’an contains scientific insights which were unknown to the people in 7th century Arabia, which proves that it could not have been authored by God. Many other Muslims believe that the Qur’an confirms what came before it of revelation (like the messages of Moses and Jesus) and is the final message in a series. Some Muslims believe that the miracles of the Qur’an lie in the knowledge of the unseen world, things that nobody could have known except for God have been revealed in the Qur’an.

According to your argument sticking to formalism, form precedes content. Muslims generally praise the outside of the Koran rather than the inside since they know perfectly well that the latter will cause many problems and doubts for one studying Islam.

Most of the things you state about the Koran are subjective comments of Muslim scholars that have been a part of Islamic tradition for centuries. Consequently, they are subject to relativity and are far from being facts. No secular linguist or poet would agree that the Koran is a literary miracle or masterpiece. Further, the Koran always accuses Meccan pagans of mocking Mohammad as a lunatic poet, which rebuts your claim that the Koran was too powerful for critique.

Early on, after he had only received a few revelations, God commanded Muhammad to preach Islam to the people. So he got up on a mountain and called the people around him. He asked them, if he told them that there was an army coming from behind that mountain, would they believe him? And they said that they had never heard any lie from him. He established his credibility–they would believe him if he had said that. And then he told them that he was a warner, warning them of the punishment of the Hereafter. They rebuked him.

But the people who did believe in him–they believed because of the power of the Qur’an. He didn’t have to ‘convince’ anyone, they would hear it and the truth of it, strength of it, and beauty of it convinced them that it was from God.

Islamic history denies this so-called beauty and power of the Koran! Neither Mohammad nor the supposed power of the Koran managed to turn Meccan pagans to Islam until Mohammad’s return from Medinah with his powerful army. What convinced those pagan tribes was actually the power of the sword rather than of the Koran!

Muhammad was known as the most trustworthy among his people. The truths of the Qur’an were proven many times. There would be a prophecy, about (for example) the unlikely victor in a battle some years in the future, the Qur’an was correct. Also, when Muhammad’s family rebuked him, the Qur’an basically said that his uncle would never embrace Islam. All that uncle had to do, to prove Muhammad was wrong, was just utter fatih in Islam, even if it was a lie, but he wouldn’t do it!

The character and behavior of Muhammad was what convinced people, in addition to the Qur’an. Some people just upon seeing or hearing Muhammad would take his religion, knowing that he is not a liar.

This is a logical fallacy! Whatever a trustworthy person says is not automatically true. People could change in time. Mohammad also changed his attitude as well as the tenets in his scripture through abrogation. He was also a guy that did not always remain faithful to his vows.

Some of Mohammad’s predictions never came true.

Of course he has. When God inspired Moses, did the Children of Israel have a book with them (like the Bible)? Or did they just believe that Moses was inspired? What about Noah? Wasn’t Noah alone when preaching to his people? Or Abraham! This is nothing new, with Muhammad.

You are not being trustworthy now

None of the Biblical figures asked people of their time to believe in a book that was dictated to them by God. The notion of revelation in Islam is an innovation emerging from Mohammad’s fantasies. Moses was not alone when God descended upon Mount Sinai. The whole community of Israelites could witness the magnificent Theophany. Nothing of the sort happened in the history of Islam.

It is easy to believe one man, when his statements ring true and are backed up with proof. I mean, the Qur’an appealed to me when I knew nothing about the life of Muhammad–Qur’an alone was that strong that I knew it couldn’t be the words of a liar. And it is easy to believe one man, who is known. But a variety of people who are unknown, telling contradictory stories, somehow collected into the same book? A far more dubious tale, I think. I only have to worry about what ONE MAN said, and if I can follow that. Not the sayings of dozens or hundreds of men who I don’t even know how they lived or why they wrote what they did.

I think Islam is definitely the natural and logical conclusion. It’s so much easier to believe.

What kind of proof are you talking about? I was a Muslim, and I considered the Koran a book full of inconsistencies and mistakes. I always believe that the Koran is inadequate and inaccurate in comparison to the Bible.

 

[grandfather]

What kind of proof are you talking about? I was a Muslim, and I considered the Koran a book full of inconsistencies and mistakes. I always believe that the Koran is inadequate and inaccurate in comparison to the Bible.

I am interested in the different reasons why people convert from one religion to another. Is awareness of the problems, inconsistencies and errors in the Koran the reason you left Islam? Did dialogue with other people who were Christians innfluence your conversion, or was it your own personal intellectual challenges to Islam that caused the disaffection? Was there more than the use of reason and intellect involved in your conversion, like having a religious experience, an encounter with God, or something of miraculous or spiritual nature?

 

[Sam_777]

How can I be sure it [the quran]
came from God?

After reading this from the bible:
“How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High*.*” (Isaiah 14:12-14).

and linking it to the moon god here:
faithfreedom.org/Articles/skm30804.htm

I doubt its from God in the first place…
why would God come with a book that contradicts all his previous books!

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… Many Muslims believe that the Qur’an’s supreme eloquence is proof that was not written by a man…

I guess Hallmark cards haven’t caught onto the Qur’an yet.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Mahomet (pblt) was deceived by an inferior demon claiming to be the Archangel Gabriel who gave him the Coran.

Every word in it is a lie, including A, AN, and THE.

**God bless the Crusaders!

I confess there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead! **

 

[Angelos]

I am interested in the different reasons why people convert from one religion to another. Is awareness of the problems, inconsistencies and errors in the Koran the reason you left Islam? Did dialogue with other people who were Christians innfluence your conversion, or was it your own personal intellectual challenges to Islam that caused the disaffection? Was there more than the use of reason and intellect involved in your conversion, like having a religious experience, an encounter with God, or something of miraculous or spiritual nature?

My conversion was gradual and mostly based on feelings rather than on intellect. I was a devout Muslim and recited the Koran often. However, even in those days something unknown was guiding me to Christ since I could not resist being dragged to Jesus’ birth and infancy narratives in the Islamic scripture. The more I read, the more I wanted to learn about Jesus, who came to represent love, mercy, and mystery for me.

One day I decided to read the Gospel instead of the Koran, for I believed that what Islam traditionally asserted about the authenticity of the Gospel was not historically true. I started to read the Gospels and compare them to the Koran. In that same period I started attending the weekly liturgy. The Lord kept guiding me through dreams as well. Now I am a Christian and I am what I am by the grace of God.

 

[grandfather]

The Lord kept guiding me through dreams as well. Now I am a Christian and I am what I am by the grace of God.

There are quite a few reports of Muslims converting to Christianity as a result of powerful dreams in which Jesus appeared to them. I wonder how widespread this is and if it will continue. I have always admired converts from Islam due to the persecution they face and pray often for all souls, specifically Muslims.

 

[Verisimilitude]

The character and behavior of Muhammad was what convinced people, in addition to the Qur’an.

The character of a man is in his actions, not his words.

His actions were to include but not limited to: murder, assassination, child sex, and theft. Most Moslems don’t deny these things but justify them and embrace them as good.

His words weren’t so great either.
Abu Huraira reported many ahadith from Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and one is that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: I am most close to Jesus, son of Mary, among the whole of mankind in this worldly life and the next life. They said: Allah’s Messenger how is it? Thereupon he said: Prophets are brothers in faith, having different mothers. Their religion is, however, one and there is no Apostle between us (between I and Jesus Christ). (Book #030, Hadith #5836)~Muslim

Satan speaks through Mohammed in the Quran:
(Iblees (Satan)) said: “See? This one whom You have honoured above me, if You give me respite (keep me alive) to the Day of Resurrection, I will surely seize and mislead his offspring (by sending them astray) all but a few!”
( سورة الإسراء , Al-Isra, Chapter #17, Verse #62)

That is the source of Mohammeds revelation over 23 years. The father of Lies speaks true here which is an oxymoron but he (Satan) was laying the ground work for leading all but a few astray through Islam.

Would God tell a honorable man it is permitted to bed a child or his adopted sons wife as his own? Would an honorable man accept a child in his bed or his adopted sons wife as his own?

I trust every ‘pbuh’ is a torment upon his soul for leading so many astray and causing such misery in the world.

 

[inJESUS]

Muhammad was known as the most trustworthy among his people.

And they say: “O you to whom the Dhikr (the Qur’an) has been sent down! Verily, **you are a mad man **. Why do you not bring angels to us if you are of the truthful ones?” S. 15:6

And when We change a Verse in place of another, and Allah knows the best of what He sends down, they (the disbelievers) say: “**You are but a Muftari! (forger, liar).” **Nay, but most of them know not. S. 16:101

But the misbelievers say: “**Naught is this but a lie which he has forged, and others have helped him at it.” **In truth it is they who have put forward an iniquity and a falsehood. And they say: “Tales of the ancients, which he has caused to be written: and they are dictated before him morning and evening.” Say: “The (Qur’an) was sent down by Him who knows the mystery (that is) in the heavens and the earth: verily He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” S. 25:4-6 Y. Ali

And if they call you a liar, truly apostles before you were called liars, and to Allah are all affairs returned. S. 35:4

Seems not all people agree with your premise Amy and am sure Mormons will say the same about Smith.

 

[morning_star777]

How can I be sure it [the quran]
came from God?

Because Muhammed says so.&how can you be sure that Muhammed is prophet?Because Quran says so.What a nice joke,isn’t it?

 

[Catherine_S]

My conversion was gradual and mostly based on feelings rather than on intellect. I was a devout Muslim and recited the Koran often. However, even in those days something unknown was guiding me to Christ since I could not resist being dragged to Jesus’ birth and infancy narratives in the Islamic scripture. The more I read, the more I wanted to learn about Jesus, who came to represent love, mercy, and mystery for me.

One day I decided to read the Gospel instead of the Koran, for I believed that what Islam traditionally asserted about the authenticity of the Gospel was not historically true. I started to read the Gospels and compare them to the Koran. In that same period I started attending the weekly liturgy. The Lord kept guiding me through dreams as well. Now I am a Christian and I am what I am by the grace of God.

Thank you Angelos :byzsoc: .
"The more I read, the more I wanted to learn about Jesus, who came to represent love, mercy, and mystery for me " :bowdown: .
***Amen! ***

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[morning_star777]

Perhaps it should be self-evident. Have you read it, to even see what it says?

Ya we read it.it says 1.125=1=1.25.it says trinity=father+mother+son,its says that wine is handiwork of satan but heaven is full of wine.it says that God created the world in 6 days later says that in 8 days.it says that God’s word never can be changed but later says that it can be changed if God wish!!very contradictory!

 

[Catherine_S]

Ya we read it.it says 1.125=1=1.25.it says trinity=father+mother+son,its says that wine is handiwork of satan but heaven is full of wine.it says that God created the world in 6 days later says that in 8 days.it says that God’s word never can be changed but later says that it can be changed if God with!!nice very nice.

Glory be to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
***Holy Trinity ***
Praise to God forever :bowdown: !

 

[morning_star777]

Glory be to the Father,Son,and Holy Spirit
Holy Trinity
Praise be God forever :bowdown: !

Dear catherine i know what is trinity(here my christian friends made me understand).i was just explaining what Quran taught about holy trinity.but thanks for your concern.jesus bless you

 

[inJESUS]

Originally Posted by Sister Amy
Perhaps it should be self-evident. Have you read it, to even see what it says?

i did Amy. It says that Allah wants to refute the “misguided”, yet Allah not only misinterpreted Christianity, but did not even come close to what:

the Trinity is by mentioning “partners”, “self-sufficiency” and “Mary”

what Son of God means by mentioning in 10 verses about physicality and wife.

I also read that Allah wanted to refute Jesus’ divinity by saying He used to eat food.

I also read the subjective challenge given by Allah to prove his book.

I also read that Allah tries to support Muhamad’s words regarding Mary by saying “you were not there to know” when in fact he did not even need to “be there” since what he was saying was written before him in apocrypha.

I also read many passages where there is conclusive answer whether “he” refers to Allah or Muhammad.

I also read many verse where Allah and Muhammas speak interchangeably.

I also read legends and apocrypha in the Quran.

I also realize that the book is not coherent since it is about lengh rather than coherance.

I also find many grammatical mistakes that Muslims resort to all kinds of grammar techniques to “back up” the mistakes.

I also read too many teachings that oppose the Bible.

I also read Gnostic teachings in the Quran.

These are few things i remember.

As you can see, many, if not millions, will read it and come to my conclusion. The literal words of God you are preaching must be clear to all, and clear from the least error, and not even open to debate yet totaly the opposite is revealed if one uses reason and not a priori beliefs, instead of sticking to the human challenge of the Quran that reflects anything but a divine wisdom.