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inJESUS
Guest
The Holy Ghost is adored as a deity! yet according to Hamba’s link, Allah seemed to have problem with Mary’s statues, not with worshiping the Spirit of God, His “partner”…He shoudn’t have inspired Muhammad to say Innama Al-A’malu bin-niyyaat ( verily works are from intentions)…so if our intention is to remember and venerate and not worship, then no no, but nevermind the Holy Spirit worshipping, Mary’s statues disturb Allah more
Hamba, your link does not even adress the Quranic claims where Mary is put on the same level with Jesus in the context of Trinity. None of the arguments presented adress this.
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hamba2han
Guest
If Christians assign divinity to Jesus (pbuh) because he is the “Son of God”, then why shouldn’t the “Mother of God” be assigned divinity as well?
Christian logic is not easy to understand.
Christian logic is not easy to understand.
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inJESUS
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
Because Mary is a created being.
But Jesus was not created. He always existed.
“Son of God” is a title to imply that Jesus has the same nature as God.
“Mother of God” is a title to imply that Mary is the chosen women to bring God into our world through a virgin birth.
Anyway, I’m just glad that you’re close to admitting that the Qur’an implies Mary as the third person of the Trinity.
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
You’re right; “Of course the answer is no.” But does the Qur’an know that.
It’s quite obvious that the Qur’an denies the divinity of Christ. It also denies His crucifixion, which is something for the historians to take note of.
But what does the Qur’an say about The Holy Spirit?
The silence is deafening.
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algebra
Guest
Amy,According to the Muslim definition of ‘worship’ Catholics do in fact ‘worship’ Mary, so the Qur’an is correct in implying that they do, even though Catholics don’t consider that they are worshiping Mary when they pray to her, or with her, or revere her, or any other term that might be used.
However, the Trinity is not called Father, Son, and Mary. Not at all.
If you don’t think Mary is a goddess beside God, then just say so, and that you agree with the Qur’an when it says that Jesus never told the people to take Mary as a goddess, or to worship her.
Back to being deceitful I see.
You know very well that intentions define actions.
By the islamic standard of worship, kissing and petting the black stone of the kabaa is worship.
No one can claim that Mary is being worshipped, if there is no intention to worship her.
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
That’s not fair; First you say “According to the Muslim definition” and then you say “in fact”. That’s a little bias.
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swariffin
Guest
Dear Grandpa,
First of all, are you really a grandfather now? It is always be an honor for me changing ideas with people with the wisdom of age.
You are correct, Grandpa, I know one Muslim from the “royal blood” of Palembang (South Sumatra). He was a devout muslim and often attack churches just for fun. As a leader in his group, he studied bible to attack Christian from our own bible. A long the way, just like Paul, he was captured by the love of Jesus, was converted, and became a Methodist Priest. He gave sermons in many places and I attended many of them. He never attacked other denomination of churches including the Catholics. He always proclaim the grace of Jesus our Lord. He was persecuted by his fellow muslims, expelled from his family completely naked (yes, without a single thread covering his body as his family said all of his clothings were belong to a muslim family). He was falsely accused of defaming Islam (yes, Indonesia has a law prohibiting us to defame a religion, but only applied to non-muslims in practice). He spent 1 year behind bars. But, the more famous he became, and now he is one of the best preacher of Jesus’ love, I believe. He is expert of the bible in the original language of Greek and Hebrew. Anyway, I am off-topic. But, it is always a pleasure for me talking about him.
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swariffin
Guest
Morningstar,Ya we read it.it says 1.125=1=1.25
What a nice stress release you give me. Thanks.
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morning_star777
Guest
You are most welcome brotherMorningstar,
What a nice stress release you give me. Thanks.
.:hug1: Jesus bless you
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grandfather
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Lapell
Guest
Wow!! Well, thank you for having shared this with us, Angelos.My conversion was gradual and mostly based on feelings rather than on intellect. I was a devout Muslim and recited the Koran often. However, even in those days something unknown was guiding me to Christ since I could not resist being dragged to Jesus’ birth and infancy narratives in the Islamic scripture. The more I read, the more I wanted to learn about Jesus, who came to represent love, mercy, and mystery for me.
One day I decided to read the Gospel instead of the Koran, for I believed that what Islam traditionally asserted about the authenticity of the Gospel was not historically true. I started to read the Gospels and compare them to the Koran. In that same period I started attending the weekly liturgy. The Lord kept guiding me through dreams as well. Now I am a Christian and I am what I am by the grace of God.
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Lapell
Guest
Ahem!.. Maybe the Qur’an doesn’t say that, but it still doesn’t approve of the Christian doctrine of the Holy Trinity in God, does it!The Qur’an does not say that Mary is part of the Trinity.
Some people (Muslims, and Catholics even) have mistakenly drawn that interpretation out. Muslims because they weren’t educated about Trinity, and Catholics because they weren’t educated about Islam. It’s just a mistake.
According to the Muslim definition of ‘worship’ Catholics do in fact ‘worship’ Mary, so the Qur’an is correct in implying that they do, even though Catholics don’t consider that they are worshiping Mary when they pray to her, or with her, or revere her, or any other term that might be used.
However, the Trinity is not called Father, Son, and Mary. Not at all.
If you don’t think Mary is a goddess beside God, then just say so, and that you agree with the Qur’an when it says that Jesus never told the people to take Mary as a goddess, or to worship her.
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Angelos
Guest
You are welcome, dear Lapell
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Lapell
Guest
Hum!.. For what I know, there was no suicide bomber in Muhammad’s times, was there?
If you want to prove that Muhammad did call for killing people, you have to provide examples from his own words, either in Qur’an or in other authentic sources…
Taking the words of suicide bombers sounds like hearsay in a Court of Justice. Not so sure when it comes to their reliability!
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Lapell
Guest
Facts from reliable sources should be able to demonstrate what you meant to say if what you say is correct. It may sound theoretical, but it is truth that frees us, not lies!
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inJESUS
Guest
in order for the Quran’s author to approve/disapprove, he must present the correct argument in the first place, something he failed to do in all the quoted passages. The Quran approves of the virgin birth yet does not explain it’s implications as if it was a meaningless thing to happen. the Quran denies Jesus’ divinity by asserting His humanity, saying He used to eat food, which does nor refute anything but asserts Jesus’ humanity. The Quran puts Mary on the same divinity with Jesus in the context of Trinity, which is false from all angles. The Quran does not even mention the Holy Spirit regarding the Trinity but always Mary; the Quran gives wrong refutation to the title Son of God by making Allah look scandalized by it as if it involved sex when the title refers to the Logos/Wisdom of God.
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Lapell
Guest
Hum! What is the definition of “worship” in Islam then, since apparently it’s not the same as ours?
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Lapell
Guest
Also, Sister Amy, I understand that you were raised a Christian, but not a Catholic. So I take it you must know of the use of a certain verse forbidding to speak to the dead and their spirit to tell the people we must not pray to the saints but to God Himself.
However, the said passage (in one of the first five books of the Bible) was referring to practices of divination in the surrounding peoples’ religions. Nothing to do with mere conversation with a loved one who happened to have died, where no answer is expected from the dead!
However, the said passage (in one of the first five books of the Bible) was referring to practices of divination in the surrounding peoples’ religions. Nothing to do with mere conversation with a loved one who happened to have died, where no answer is expected from the dead!
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