The only singing I hear at Mass comes from cantors

[Sarabande]

Also, when I am traveling and attending mass at an unfamiliar parish, the service music for the mass parts (Gloria, Sanctus, etc.) may also be new to me. Sometimes I can find it in the hymnal, sometimes not. Sometimes by the time I find it in the hymnal, it is over. I may know the words, but I don’t like to sing if I keep having to guess what the next note is going to be. I wish the service music used by a parish was kept in the pews.

I agree because, like you, I also read music. But most people don’t read music, so having the music in the pews wouldn’t help. They learn everything by rote.

Are children in Catholic schools taught basic musical skills such as how to read music or sing the harmony parts?

If it is within the budget they do have music classes. I taught music and ran the children’s bell and voice choir for a couple years at a little Catholic school. They learned basic music theory and I got the choir to sing 2-part harmony on one or two pieces. The older children received some basic music history as well. The problem is that they only receive this training once a week for about an hour. That’s fine one-on-one, especially since the individual would be expected to practice every day. But in a class of 20-30 kids, it’s not a sufficient amount of time to really teach someone to read music, especially if you couldn’t give them homework. Also, many parishes only wanted you to teach the children how to sing the newer hymns, not the hymns that would have the good harmony.

 

[EHRAM]

The best persons to teach music to children are their parents. The best place is during mass as they watch and join in with their parents.

CDL

I agree that that parents are their children’s best teachers, and that setting an example by singing in mass is an important part of music education. However, it would be inappropriate to try to teach children to read music during mass, and impossible to teach them to sing harmony from hymnals that have no harmony parts. Also, by the time the children reach middle school, the example set by their non-singing peers may carry more weight than the example set by their singing parents.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

I agree that that parents are their children’s best teachers, and that setting an example by singing in mass is an important part of music education. However, it would be inappropriate to try to teach children to read music during mass, and impossible to teach them to sing harmony from hymnals that have no harmony parts. Also, by the time the children reach middle school, the example set by their non-singing peers may carry more weight than the example set by their singing parents.

You may be right in your observations. I’d rather see the RCs return to their patrimony of the Gregorian Chant than to continue to try to ape Protestant Lite. Four part harmony is nice but not necessary. All I know for sure is what I see in my Church. Children sing their hearts out mostly because their parents sing their hearts out. We do not use instruments and we follow the Eastern chant and up until this week we had not musical notations. We followed the cantors lead.

CDL

 

[ltbpoe43]

Posted earlier - service music in the pews.

No thanks, been there, done that. Get the permission copy. Put it out. Go over it a few times with the congregation. Fr. is unhappy that he has scraps of paper all over the pews. Children tend to play with it, roll it up, move it, take it home, color on it, etc. The next person to sit there doesn’t have it and folds their arms in protest because now they can’t sing it.

How does something so simple become such a logistical nightmare for poor music director. You gotta laugh.

 

[Sarabande]

Children sing their hearts out mostly because their parents sing their hearts out.
CDL

I think you do have something about that. My parents LOVE to sing, so they always sang during the mass. Thus, I always sang and am now a professional singer. But my brother and sister (although they have good voices) don’t sing at all during mass. That’s more because they didn’t like most of the newer music that is being put out in many of the churches today.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

I think you do have something about that. My parents LOVE to sing, so they always sang during the mass. Thus, I always sang and am now a professional singer. But my brother and sister (although they have good voices) don’t sing at all during mass. That’s more because they didn’t like most of the newer music that is being put out in many of the churches today.

I certainly understand that. Can’t some people get a movement going to return to your own music, the Gregorian Chant, dump this light weight protestant evangelical stuff?

CDL

 

[lak611]

I certainly understand that. Can’t some people get a movement going to return to your own music, the Gregorian Chant, dump this light weight protestant evangelical stuff?

CDL

I wouldn’t mind a mixture of chant and traditional hymns (Catholic and Protestant). I cannot stand the hippy-dippy, bad folk music.

 

[Sarabande]

I certainly understand that. Can’t some people get a movement going to return to your own music, the Gregorian Chant, dump this light weight protestant evangelical stuff?

CDL

Thankfully, at the Cathedral where I cantor, we mostly only do traditional hymns for the low masses. At the high masses we do chant, polyphony, motets, etc. Once in a while, a decent newer hymn is thrown in during the low masses. Unless, of course, a Catholic organization has a big, special mass and gives us the list of really saccharine, easy-listening sounding stuff. The Archdiocesan events have gotten much better since they have a real musician/priest heading it. Thank goodness.

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

I certainly understand that. Can’t some people get a movement going to return to your own music, the Gregorian Chant, dump this light weight protestant evangelical stuff?

CDL

I love the Gregorian Chant, but I don’t think I would want just that – I like singing classical pieces too much. However, I can definitely do without the cutesy-poo ditties that masquerade as “folk music” in too many Catholic churches. There was a certain period of time that spawned way too much of that “music”, and I wish the hymnals would eliminate it.

Mudgie-in-training and freelance sparkle/coffee grinds sprinkler

 

[SeekerJen]

Are children in Catholic schools taught basic musical skills such as how to read music or sing the harmony parts?

At the Catholic school where I was educated in grades K-8, we were lucky if we had a general music teacher every year. I learned to read music because my parents were willing to pay extra for me to be in the school band. I didn’t learn how to read harmony parts until I joined my (public) high school choir.

 

[lak611]

At the Catholic school where I was educated in grades K-8, we were lucky if we had a general music teacher every year. I learned to read music because my parents were willing to pay extra for me to be in the school band. I didn’t learn how to read harmony parts until I joined my (public) high school choir.

I went to public elementary school. We were taught how to read the harmony parts of songs. We were also taught chant and rounds (not Catholic songs, of course). We learned harmony mainly by practising patriotic songs, but, alas, we never learned how to sing “The Star Spangled Banner” in a lower key.

 

[RWMorris]

As a pianist/organist for our little cathedral, I try to choose songs the congregation knows well. I dislike most praise/worship music but will use it at communion many times. The music director has a responsibility to choose music that is familiar to the congregation and if it is traditional then so be it!

 

[lak611]

As a pianist/organist for our little cathedral, I try to choose songs the congregation knows well. I dislike most praise/worship music but will use it at communion many times. The music director has a responsibility to choose music that is familiar to the congregation and if it is traditional then so be it!

I have no problem with the praise/worship music sometimes. For instance, while the congregation is receiving Communion at my parish, a cantor sometimes sings “Lamb of God” by Twila Paris. I like the song and while everybody is receiving Communion, they are not singing anyway. The song works as a solo by a cantor but would not work as a song sung by the congregation.

 

[Sarabande]

I just saw this on the similar threads with the survey results of what helps Catholics sing during the liturgy. It’s interesting what non-musicians found as important to help them sing.

The top three were 1. Familiar Melody 2. Easy to Sing and 3. Traditional Song.

Top three for musicians who were surveyed were 1. Leadership of Organ or Instruments 2. Meaningful Text and 3. Leadership of Cantor or Director

If I’m thinking about the congregation, I would choose exactly what the non-musicians chose, although I probably would have leadership of the musicians up there too because if you don’t have good musicians playing the hymn melodies well, they are hard to sing.

Contemporary song was down towards the bottom of the list for both groups and Leadership of the Priest celebrant was even lower than the Contemporary song for the non-musicians group.

npm.org/Articles/singlitresults.htm

 

[MarthaMartha]

I have no problem with the praise/worship music sometimes. For instance, while the congregation is receiving Communion at my parish, a cantor sometimes sings “Lamb of God” by Twila Paris. I like the song and while everybody is receiving Communion, they are not singing anyway. The song works as a solo by a cantor but would not work as a song sung by the congregation.

There is also a lovely SATB choral version. Our little choir sang it on Easter Sunday.

 

[lak611]

There is also a lovely SATB choral version. Our little choir sang it on Easter Sunday.

What is SATB? Is that 4 part (soprano, alto, tenor, baritone/bass)?

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

What is SATB?

Soprano
Alto
Tenor
B***



Editing to add; the swear-blocker didn’t like that fourth voice part; it’s B-A-S-S.

Mudgie-in-training and freelance sparkle/coffee grinds sprinkler

 

[lak611]

Soprano
Alto
Tenor
B***



Mudgie-in-training and freelance sparkle/coffee grinds sprinkler

Thanks, I figured it out after I posted.

 

[cheerpul1]

I am a liturgist/musician at a parish in a small Ohio town. We have about 500 people attend weekend masses.
Our assembly singing is rather inconsistant, despite being well-blessed with good organists/cantor/choir/folk group.

The least accomplished organist has the early mass on Sunday. Singing is generally not very enthusiastic, but picks up when one of the more energized organists fills in.
The folk group tends to discourage singing, asthere are more unfamiliar songs/hymns and many people just want to listen.
The mass with choir also has the largest congregation. Singing is usually decent.

One thing that always helps our singing is having someone teach a new or somewhat unfamiliar hymn prior to the service. It works especially well when the unfamiliar hymn is the entrance hymn and fresh in people’s ears when it is sung. Also, be encouraging.

Hearing someone lead the singing, from the front or balcony, helps support the singing if it is stronger right at the beginning of the song, but then backs off somewhat to join the assembly. Never overpower the assembly or they cut back. If the acoustics are good, and the singer is strong, you don’t need to use a microphone, and it is easier to effect this tapering off.

We use a mixture of traditional to contemporary music in our masses. Everyone has their likes and dislikes. We try to be many things, within the context of GIRM and the Liturgical documents,etc. We are very blessed with people who can offer classically trained voices to folk style and about everything in between - AND - they usually get along pretty well. (Thank you, Lord!)

I also include bulletin articles with interesting liturgical correlations between the music and the mass. If you engage people, they respond better. Some people are engaged by the tune, the lyrics, how well it fits the scripture, the tempo or rhythm, or even the story behind the hymn.

I hope some of this helps. I still have the dream, that one day, we will have mass and everyone will be moved to sing with all their hearts. Wow! What joy that will be!
Blessings to you and keep trying. St. Monica prayed and worked on Augustine for 30 years, before she got results.
Cheerpul

 

[lak611]

I am a liturgist/musician at a parish in a small Ohio town. We have about 500 people attend weekend masses.
Our assembly singing is rather inconsistant, despite being well-blessed with good organists/cantor/choir/folk group.

The least accomplished organist has the early mass on Sunday. Singing is generally not very enthusiastic, but picks up when one of the more energized organists fills in.
The folk group tends to discourage singing, asthere are more unfamiliar songs/hymns and many people just want to listen.
The mass with choir also has the largest congregation. Singing is usually decent.

One thing that always helps our singing is having someone teach a new or somewhat unfamiliar hymn prior to the service. It works especially well when the unfamiliar hymn is the entrance hymn and fresh in people’s ears when it is sung. Also, be encouraging.

Hearing someone lead the singing, from the front or balcony, helps support the singing if it is stronger right at the beginning of the song, but then backs off somewhat to join the assembly. Never overpower the assembly or they cut back. If the acoustics are good, and the singer is strong, you don’t need to use a microphone, and it is easier to effect this tapering off.

We use a mixture of traditional to contemporary music in our masses. Everyone has their likes and dislikes. We try to be many things, within the context of GIRM and the Liturgical documents,etc. We are very blessed with people who can offer classically trained voices to folk style and about everything in between - AND - they usually get along pretty well. (Thank you, Lord!)

I also include bulletin articles with interesting liturgical correlations between the music and the mass. If you engage people, they respond better. Some people are engaged by the tune, the lyrics, how well it fits the scripture, the tempo or rhythm, or even the story behind the hymn.

I hope some of this helps. I still have the dream, that one day, we will have mass and everyone will be moved to sing with all their hearts. Wow! What joy that will be!
Blessings to you and keep trying. St. Monica prayed and worked on Augustine for 30 years, before she got results.
Cheerpul

I would also suggest that you keep the same style at a particular Mass. If people like traditional hymns or folk music, they should not be expected to hear something unfamiliar to them. IOW, keep the traditional hymns at the 10 a.m. Mass and don’t spring the folk music on that congregation. Likewise, if the 12 p.m. Mass is usually folk music, don’t play traditional hymns. If the congregation has a preference, it would be better to keep the Masses consistent.