"The Passion"

[Pace]

Matt16_18:

This is a quote from the review you posted: “Lynch … toys with well established viewer expectation. We keep searching in every nook and cranny of these strange houses he builds for crumbs of wisdom, and we find none.”

Exactly right. No wisdom to be found.

Matt16_18,

I liked the reviewer that you quoted in your first post on this matter. I believe that he admires Lynch, but at a certain point in Mulholland Drive a split occurs and the movie and he move in different directions (spiritually?). I am going to repost what he had to say in your quote of his review and then I’m going to add my version of how his words could be interpreted.

As for the M. Leary article: Although I think it is one of the best reviews of Mulholland Drive out there, that doesn’t mean that I will agree with every word of it. I proposed it as an answer to the specific idea of the reviewer you quoted: That there was no purpose in the ‘disintegration’ that happens within MD .

Now you have taken a quote from the M. Leary review which seems to say the same thing your original reviewer said… My reply is that the “wisdom” that M. Leary was referring to was the ‘expected’, movie-logic, narrative type “wisdom” that we have become accustomed to searching for and finding in most movies. So, in effect, as was the main point in M. Leary’s article, what takes place in MD is the antidote to a poisonous way of perceiving things; a “way” that most movies have taught us to follow.

 

[Pace]

roymckenzie:

I am obviously lacking something, maybe I have an inferior mental capacity. I have looked in a number of places on the net and spoken with friends at the office that have seen the movie and no one other than you can give me any correlation to Mel Gibson’s “The Passion of Christ” I feel really stupid at this point.

You will have to choose for yourself . You’re searching to see if *MD * can be trusted. I understand that. But maybe feeling “stupid” in the way you did is a good sign?

 

[Luke1_48]

Paris Blues:

Do you guys think the movie “The Passion” was a way to bring people to Christ because we are probably in the End Times?

Sure do my sis!

 

[roymckenzie]

Luke1:48:

Sure do my sis!

I know the end times are near for me, probably no more than 40 more years left for me. I am feeling I will probably be very ready than.

 

[Matt16_18]

Pace:

Matt16_18,

Now you have taken a quote from the M. Leary review which seems to say the same thing your original reviewer said… My reply is that the “wisdom” that M. Leary was referring to was the ‘expected’, movie-logic, narrative type “wisdom” that we have become accustomed to searching for and finding in most movies. So, in effect, as was the main point in M. Leary’s article, what takes place in MD is the antidote to a poisonous way of perceiving things; a “way” that most movies have taught us to follow.

Luis Buñuel said everything there is to say about “expected movie logic” in 1928 when he made Un Chien andalou. But to compare a David Lynch film to Buñuel film gives too much credit to Lynch. The comparison that I would make would be between * Mulholland Drive* and the Paul Morrissey/Andy Warhol film * Flesh for Frankenstein*.

 

[Pace]

Matt16_18:

Luis Buñuel said everything there is to say about “expected movie logic” in 1928 when he made Un Chien andalou. But to compare a David Lynch film to Buñuel film gives too much credit to Lynch. The comparison that I would make would be between * Mulholland Drive* and the Paul Morrissey/Andy Warhol film * Flesh for Frankenstein*.

You demonstrate here the very ‘reason’ we know Mulholland Drive to be God’s movie. There is a presence within it that makes active a presence within us. The activity of this presence within us reveals itself by the very fact that it seeks to put down something (or someone) that it doesn’t yet know. Ultimately, only the devil and others in hell do this type of thing. It is a hatred of mystery. All other movies except *MD * have contributed to this hatred within us to some degree. MD is the only perfect movie. It sustains us in perfect freedom (mystery) all along and leaves us with a free choice at the end. Isn’t this the very thing we are called to believe about how God himself works in the world?

 

[Pace]

Mulholland Drive
A Film Review by James Berardinelli The film is drenched in atmosphere. That shouldn’t be a surprise. Credit the cinematography of Peter Deming and the score by Angelo Badalamenti. Mulholland Drive is filled with its share of “Twin Peaks”-ish moments. But, after a promising start and an engaging midsection, there’s the third act to deal with. And it’s not a pretty sight. Lynch cheats his audience, pulling the rug out from under us. He throws everything into the mix with the lone goal of confusing us. Nothing makes any sense because it’s not supposed to make any sense. There’s no purpose or logic to events. Lynch is playing a big practical joke on us. He takes characters we have come to care about and obscures their fates in gibberish. Some people will undoubtedly decide this is all very deep and will find hidden meanings in everything, but they’re giving Lynch too much credit. This is not good filmmaking; it’s immature and wasteful.

His life was drenched in atmosphere. That shouldn’t be a surprise. Consider the beautiful sights and sounds of the natural world that his Father has provided for him. At this point, it is a life where each seemingly ordinary moment is infused with a wild excitement and each contains an astonishing coincidence. But, after a promising start and an engaging mid-section, there’s the third act to deal with. And it’s not a pretty sight. Jesus cheats his audience, pulling the rug out from under us. He throws everything into the mix with the lone goal of confusing us. Nothing makes any sense because it’s not meant to make any sense. There’s no purpose or logic to events. Jesus is playing a big practical joke on us. He takes characters we have come to care about and - just as the hoped-for unity of the Kingdom is about to be reached - scatters them in a selfish display of passion. Some people will undoubtedly decide this is all very deep and will find hidden meanings in everything, but they’re giving Jesus too much credit. Handing over his life like that was useless and wasteful.

If only he would have used his power and come down from that cross…

 

[RPC717]

Pace:

His life was drenched in atmosphere. That shouldn’t be a surprise. Consider the beautiful sights and sounds of the natural world that his Father has provided for him. At this point, it is a life where each seemingly ordinary moment is infused with a wild excitement and each contains an astonishing coincidence. But, after a promising start and an engaging mid-section, there’s the third act to deal with. And it’s not a pretty sight. Jesus cheats his audience, pulling the rug out from under us. He throws everything into the mix with the lone goal of confusing us. Nothing makes any sense because it’s not meant to make any sense. There’s no purpose or logic to events. Jesus is playing a big practical joke on us. He takes characters we have come to care about and - just as the hoped-for unity of the Kingdom is about to be reached - scatters them in a selfish display of passion. Some people will undoubtedly decide this is all very deep and will find hidden meanings in everything, but they’re giving Jesus too much credit. Handing over his life like that was useless and wasteful.

If only he would have used his power and come down from that cross…

Now I get it - that’s what this thread was all about - create an atmosphere (utter confusion), throw everything into the mix (like incoherence, bad internet links, poor syntax and grammar, and nonsequitors), then acknowledge that there’s no logic and pull the rug out from under us - all a practical joke! You’ve fashioned a Lynchian allegory! Hahahaha!! You got us. :whacky:

But seriously - you’re just kidding, right?

 

[Pace]

RPC717:

Now I get it - that’s what this thread was all about - create an atmosphere (utter confusion), throw everything into the mix (like incoherence, bad internet links, poor syntax and grammar, and nonsequitors), then acknowledge that there’s no logic and pull the rug out from under us - all a practical joke! You’ve fashioned a Lynchian allegory! Hahahaha!! You got us. :whacky:

But seriously - you’re just kidding, right?

What do you want my answer to be, RPC717?

 

[RPC717]

Pace:

What do you want my answer to be, RPC717?

After looking at what I wrote, I realize it seems pretty ugly and I apologize for that. Mea culpa. :tsktsk:

I don’t think anyone understood what Mulholland Drive had to do with “The Passion,” but if that review is supposed to parallel Jesus’ passion as though it were a waste, I would like to know what you mean by that, or perhaps what point of view you’re stating that from. You state that Jesus played a practical joke on us, as though what He did was fraudulent, and that the realization that He was the One the Jews had been waiting for is just reading too much into prophecy. You mention that Jesus could have used His power to come down from the cross, as though that would have been better - this is Judas talking.

It does seem that Jesus had complete, sublime logic and purpose in everything He did, and that there is a deep meaning to everything He did and everything He was. If anything, He doesn’t get enough credit.

 

[CARose]

sherilo:

Guess what I have been doing ever since–searching for God and truth, and finding in the Catholic church. It has been an amazing journey so far, and I eagerly anticipate learning more truth. It started with the Passion.
… Peace,
Sheri

Congrats, welcome home Sheri,

CARose

 

[Pace]

RPC717:

After looking at what I wrote, I realize it seems pretty ugly and I apologize for that. Mea culpa. :tsktsk:

No need to apologize. You did your part by indicating that you were at least partly joking.

I don’t think anyone understood what Mulholland Drive had to do with “The Passion,”

What it does, or does not, have to do with The Passion are precisely the questions that I think we should look into.

but if that review is supposed to parallel Jesus’ passion as though it were a waste, I would like to know what you mean by that, or perhaps what point of view you’re stating that from. You state that Jesus played a practical joke on us, as though what He did was fraudulent, and that the realization that He was the One the Jews had been waiting for is just reading too much into prophecy. You mention that Jesus could have used His power to come down from the cross, as though that would have been better - this is Judas talking.

Matt16_18 quoted from a review of MD . I tried to show how the same words used in the quote could be applied to the life of Jesus. In other words, Jesus’ “third act” could be “interpreted” also as a failure by some.

It does seem that Jesus had complete, sublime logic and purpose in everything He did, and that there is a deep meaning to everything He did and everything He was. If anything, He doesn’t get enough credit.

The very same words apply to Mulholland Drive and Lynch. In the new Wild at Heart DVD there is the description specific spontenaity. Lynch tries to make the conditions just right so that a specific spontenaity takes place.

 

[Phoenix_7]

What I don’t think most people realize about Mel Gibsons “The Passion of the Christ” is that it is historically accurate to a slight degree. As my pastor commented in his sermon on Sunday, “If anyone were to release a 100% historically accurate version of how Christ suffered, we could not physically endure watching it.” In terms of historical accuracy, Mel’s version would show about 5-10% of what Christ actually endured, and this was difficult enough to watch (The flogging is a great example). MD is an invention of Hollywood, probably designed with no spiritual purpose.

 

[TPJCatholic]

I think the Passion of the Christ is not announcing endtimes; rather, I think it was a move/message that was well timed. Our culture needed to be reminded of what Christ did for us during such an important politcal season.

 

[Paris_Blues]

Well, whatever the reason, I’m glad he made that film because it TOTALLY changed my life forever!!!

 

[singerlady]

Oddly enough, the only criticism I have heard of this movie has come from Catholics - particularly priests. It makes me scratch my head, because this is the same story we hear on Palm Sunday and Good Friday.

 

[wcknight]

singerlady:

Oddly enough, the only criticism I have heard of this movie has come from Catholics - particularly priests. It makes me scratch my head, because this is the same story we hear on Palm Sunday and Good Friday.

Haven’ heard any criticisms except some who claims it’s anti-semitic which it’s not. Pope John Paul after seeing said simply " It is as it was ".

I haven’t noticed anyone commenting on the notion that Mel Gibson not only used the Bible but also the writings of Blessed Catherine Emerich.

Catherine was a german nun who was an invalid most of her life (I think in the 17th century). She had many many visions of the life of our Lord and Mary, all in very vivid detail.

She later wrote down many of her stories filling out four or five volumes of text. One of those, the Dolorus Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ is the basis for Gibson’s film.

I started reading one of her books, and no one can make that much detail up. It’s just impossible to describe so many people, places, and events in such depth. It is as if you are witnessing what’s happening at that time. Even the Gospels are not even close to how much is decribe by this incredible nun.

IF Gibsons film gives the feeling that you are almost there, it is the influence of Blessed Catherine. Her accounts place you in the middle of it all. It’s well worth reading.

WC

 

[Paris_Blues]

What is this that I hear on March 11, The Passion Recut is going to be realeased again in theaters?

 

[deb1]

My pastor tried to persuade my husband and myself not to see this film. Because I had been reading about the Passion on the internet and waiting eagerly for its release, I found my pastor’s negativity frustrating. He even passed around a list of reasons why we shouldn’t see the movie. Everything basically boiled down to the fact that Mel Gibson was Catholic and Catholics aren’t Christian. After deciding on our own to go see the, my husband sat down with the pastor and tried to talk him into at least seeing the film for himself. No luck. He had the rather odd view that Catholics do not believe that Jesus rose from the dead because Catholics use a crucifix. My husband assured him that in the film Jesus rises from the dead. It didn’t matter, the pastor still said that he would advise any of his church members not to see the movie. I should point out that the pastor wasn’t only just anti-Catholic, but anti-Methodist, anti-Lutheran, and even anti -southern Baptist. He was an independent Baptist and there were even independent baptist churches that he disliked because he thought they played the wrong type of music.(I am not kidding)

I wanted to share the experience with the other women in my church. But when I brought up that I had gone to the movie I was met with dead silence. No one responded to me. Everyone just looked uncomfortable. It made me sad.They were missing a wonderful experience. You don’t have to be Catholic to be blown away by the Passion. I think even an atheist would be moved by Jesus’ sufferings.

Ironically it was our pastor’s attitude, not the movie, that has led me to search for answers on Catholic sites. I am now considering attending RCIA classes, but I am still at the just considering stage.

 

[MonicaPA]

Paris Blues:

What is this that I hear on March 11, The Passion Recut is going to be realeased again in theaters?

Yes Paris! The ‘Recut’ version is a toned down version of “The Passion of the Christ” that is supposed to be more appealing to a wider audience. Mel was on EWTN the other night talking about it & said that some of the more violent scenes has been edited. They edited in such a way that it was obvious what was happening (the scourging, etc) but you will not see so much of the graphic violence that we saw in the original.

I love the original, but I am looking forward to being able to take my 12 yr old to see the new version.

Mon