The Perfect Joy of St. Francis

  • Thread starter Thread starter TrueLight
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Ahhhh, that makes sense. Francis died on the 3rd after vespers. That’s how we ended up with October 4th for the solemnity. I knew that Teresa had died on the 4th. I didn’t know that the 5th became the 15th. I did know that there was some compensating when we changed from one calendar to another.

Thanks. Your better than Wikipedia. 👍

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
😃 😃 😃

PS, Happy Feast-day of Our Seraphic Father Francis.
 
😃 😃 😃

PS, Happy Feast-day of Our Seraphic Father Francis.
Thank you. I’m just sitting back and relaxing after a great big Italian meal and a beautiful celebration of Vespers. We have two houses within three miles of each other. We got together and one of the brothers volunteered to cook an Italian meal in honor of our Holy Father Francis.

Well . . . aside from the fact that I love his meat sauce, I didn’t want to disappoint him. So, I never mentioned that Francis never saw pasta in his life. Pasta came to Italy with Marco Polo who was 100 years younger than Francis. That’s ok, God appreciates it anyway and so did we. So . . . shhhhhhhh not a word about the pasta. 😃

Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I know I’m a couple of days late… but…

Happy feast day of St. Francis…

youtube.com/watch?v=c9-FlrMTLn8&feature=related
Well, see . . . aren’t you happy that Franciscans celebrate the entire octave? 😃

Thank you for your kindness. Please keep me in your prayers and the work that we do with the dads in crisis pregnancies. The enemy is trying to throw a wrench into the wheels at every turn.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Please keep me in your prayers and the work that we do with the dads in crisis pregnancies. The enemy is trying to throw a wrench into the wheels at every turn.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Certainly, brother.
 
The Transitus was wonderful. I wish I understood Italian though. 🙂

To day was great as well. We traveled up to Gubbio on the way to La Verna. Here are some of the pictures from today: picasaweb.google.com/101260209706929530615/LaVernaGubbioOctober42011Public?authkey=Gv1sRgCNOquvzrq52W3gE#

I have a lot of video I’ll have to edit later but here is a little bit of the 3pm procession at La Verna: youtube.com/watch?v=mZZQ-T0tWPc

Pax,
JM
Thanks so much Jason for sharing these with us!
 
I got wrapped up in reading this thread this morning, and I ordered the book this afternoon.

My first question is how much poverty is required to reach a holy state through poverty? What is the cut off?

And second, if we give to the poor, are we not enriching them out of poverty and also then away from the idea that poverty begets a holy state?
 
I got wrapped up in reading this thread this morning, and I ordered the book this afternoon.

My first question is how much poverty is required to reach a holy state through poverty? What is the cut off?
It’s not really a matter of how much you give, but how you do it. Many people give a great deal more than others, but they can afford it or they do for the tax breat or to impress someone or even to impress themselves.

True poverty begins with the realization that everything that we have has been given to us by God. Yes, yes, yes, we worked hard for it; but who gave us the skills? Who provided the opportunity?

One must also acknowledge that what we have has a purpose, it’s not just to satisfy our every desire. It’s been given to us to care for our families, provide for the poor in our communities, support the work of the Church, help to build society for the future generations. The material assets that God gives us are not meant to be horded as if we could take it with us. Remember the parable of the talents.

Evangelical poverty means that one knows the difference between want and need. Our gifts are given to provide for ourselves and our families what we need, not everything we want. There is a danger in satisfying every want. First, one can rebel when one can’t get what one wants. Second, related to the first, it creates a sense of entitlement. This is especially true of the young.
And second, if we give to the poor, are we not enriching them out of poverty and also then away from the idea that poverty begets a holy state?
The poverty of the poor is a result of sin. Evangelical poverty is the product of detachment for the sake of love. The poverty of the poor has to be addressed. We must not only give to the poor, where Christ often hides; but we must also find ways for the poor to sustain themselves. It is not evangelical to create a welfare society. Such a society diminishes man’s dignity. It is important to create means for people to progress and achieve in life. For the layman and woman who lives in the secular world this means cooperating in social programs that help to develop resources for the poor to rise out of poverty and to provide for those who cannot do so, because of health conditions or age or both.

Ultimately, true poverty is to imitate the poverty of Christ on the cross. Christ gave up everything for our redemption. We must be willing to make whatever sacrifice is necessary for the salvation of the world. This means that we make sacrifices when life requires them.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Thanks for the timely answer. Question 1 is now put to rest.

But question 2 …when you are talking about the poverty of the poor being a result of sin, is this spiritual poverty or material poverty? If spiritual, I agree. If material, it would seem as though living in poverty is a condition that prayer and asking forgiveness does not address. I realize a single answer will not address every circumstance, but arent there those who live in material poverty who are also rich in spiritual things?
 
Dockpost, I am thinking that it is the sin of our community at large, where some have such excess and others are left desolate. My daughter is a 4th grade teacher, and many of the children she has encountered don’t have the basics, such as even shoes. It is a sin of our community that any child is left without basic needs to help to insure health, when many adults have so many pairs of shoes they can’t even remember them. Also, it is a sin of our community when certain groups of people are “classified” as more important than others, and there is such huge inequalities built into our systems…
 
Thanks for the timely answer. Question 1 is now put to rest.

But question 2 …when you are talking about the poverty of the poor being a result of sin, is this spiritual poverty or material poverty? If spiritual, I agree. If material, it would seem as though living in poverty is a condition that prayer and asking forgiveness does not address. I realize a single answer will not address every circumstance, but arent there those who live in material poverty who are also rich in spiritual things?
Take a simple example. In our country, the government gave out millions of dollars to bail out companies, but how many of those millions were used to rehire those who had lost their jobs? Yet, we heard news about executives who already make six-figure salaries giving themselves raises, bonuses and remodeling their suites, while they’re laying people off because they can’t afford them.

I used to teach a university. When my contact ran out, I was replaced by a younger professor, who also has a doctorate. However, he comes at a lower salary, because you don’t pay a new doctor what you pay one with 35-years under his belt. This happens a lot to professional people in my age group who are too young for Social Security, but too old to start a new career.

In the state where I live, if you are sick and disabled, but you don’t have minor children, you’re not eligible for state Midicaid. These folks have to pay for their medical services, which they cannot afford.

The United States as put millions of dollars to fun Planned Parenthood and abortion in the USA and abroad as a means of curbing poverty. Killing an unborn child does not give someone a job or a skill. After the abortion, you’re just as poor as you were before and now you have a murder on your hands. Our country is the number one exporter of abortion dollars to poor countries.

Social Security has not given people a cost of living increase in three years. It’s claim is that the cost of living in the USA has not gone up. I’d like to know what electric company, telephone company and gas station they use. People who worked hard a blue collar jobs and paid into the system are living on as little as $800.00 a month in this country.

I would say that this kind of poverty is a result of sin.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Yes, we do live in a society where things are very unequal. But our country has always been the haves and the have nots. John Hancock was all for the revolution because England was cutting into his shipping business. George Washington, father of our country had great financial interests in seeing a break from England, just as Henry 8th had a great personal interest in denying the Catholic faith when it came to his personal desire to obtain a divorce.

Having said that, I have to think that material poverty is a condition we live in because we do not do whatever is necessary to pull out of it. In a country where a basic standard of living, basic services etc. are all there for the asking and without any effort its no wonder why some will never strive for more. They are comfortable where they are.

And so it is with m spiritual poverty. Its not God’s doing, its mine. I got very comfortable being in a place where I had do to nothing to assure myself tha what faith I had was good enough, after all “my grace is sufficient for thee”.

But now when I think of wealth and poverty in terms of my spirituality I can see, (and thanks in part to the previous posts) that my spiritual poverty is my doing for not seeking the wealth of Gods kingdom. I can see its a matter of persepective and focus, and I have been focusing on the wrong things. As for the material things in life and material wealth, while I am reading this thread and writing this note, the scripture “seek ye first the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added to you”.

Thanks to everyone who posted on this thread. You helped me a lot.
 
Yes, we do live in a society where things are very unequal. But our country has always been the haves and the have nots. John Hancock was all for the revolution because England was cutting into his shipping business. George Washington, father of our country had great financial interests in seeing a break from England, just as Henry 8th had a great personal interest in denying the Catholic faith when it came to his personal desire to obtain a divorce.

Having said that, I have to think that material poverty is a condition we live in because we do not do whatever is necessary to pull out of it. In a country where a basic standard of living, basic services etc. are all there for the asking and without any effort its no wonder why some will never strive for more. They are comfortable where they are.

And so it is with m spiritual poverty. Its not God’s doing, its mine. I got very comfortable being in a place where I had do to nothing to assure myself tha what faith I had was good enough, after all “my grace is sufficient for thee”.

But now when I think of wealth and poverty in terms of my spirituality I can see, (and thanks in part to the previous posts) that my spiritual poverty is my doing for not seeking the wealth of Gods kingdom. I can see its a matter of persepective and focus, and I have been focusing on the wrong things. As for the material things in life and material wealth, while I am reading this thread and writing this note, the scripture “seek ye first the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added to you”.

Thanks to everyone who posted on this thread. You helped me a lot.
Respectfully sir, I want you to widen your horizon beyond American soil. I do agree that some of those in material poverty are the result of laziness and inaction on the part of the person. However, there are those whose poverty are borne of social sin.

For example: In the Philippines, a huge chunk of the population is below the poverty line and most of them in the country side. While they have industriously cultivated the land, the infrastructure that can ensure earnings and sustainability for them are not established. Why? Because local government officials pocket the money needed for this infrastructure.

In the cities, livelihood programs for the urban poor could have been established by local government units, but some are too busy putting their names on unnecessary waiting sheds than to prioritize them. The ones helping the poor are Non-Government Organizations and The Church.

Moreover, I don’t think the lack of spirituality can be equated to spiritual poverty. Spiritual poverty is an attitude of one’s heart to which a person grows in total dependence on God. I would call the lack of spirituality just that… lack of spirituality. At it’s worst, it’s dead spirituality.
 
We have to be very careful how we use terms. Spiritual poverty and poverty of spirit are not the same things. Poverty of Spirit an evangelical virtue, which means the same as a spirit of detachment from everything that is not God or that stand between us and God. Spiritual poverty is a moral state where we are lacking what is offered to us by grace.

As far as material poverty, we have to be careful there too. It is NOT TRUE that in the USA there are programs and services for the asking. The government would like everyone to think so, but try to access these services. Go out and do the work that we brothers do day in and day out.

We run five pregnancy centers in our diocese where we provide not only counseling and education to men and women in crisis pregnancies, but we also provide material support to those who are poor, because they are afraid of having their children. They don’t have the resources to raise them.

The government does not provide the adequate services. There is the WIC program and food stamps, which provides nutrition for babies and mom. But it only provides if you make less than $1800.00 per month. It does not factor in your expenses or the number of people in the household. We want our people to have babies, not to abort them or contracept. That means that they need the means to feed these babies, clothe them, and spacious housing. These are provided by us, not the state.

Older people who receive Social Security have not seen a cost of living increase in three years. The Medicare system covers only 80% of your hospitalization. It does not cover pharmacy and only a portion of your outpatient visits. Plus, you have to pay $116.00 per month for it, which is debited out of your Social Security check. In most states, if you get more than $800.00 per month in Social Security, you’re not entitled to any other financial assistance from state programs. Let’s do the math. You get $800.00 and subtract $116.00 for Medicare, then you have to pay for your pharmacy or buy supplemental insurance. All of this is coming out of the same $800.00. The states will not help you, because they look at the gross, not the net. They’re looking at the $800.00. In reality, you don’t have $800.00, not to mention that it’s very difficult to live on that kind of income in the USA. The end result is that we, the Franciscans of Life, spend a lot of time assuring the elderly that they are not a burden on their families. The current culture of death is leading these men and women to see themselves as a burden to their families. As a result, when they go to a hospital, they are given documents to sign that allow their surrogate and their doctors to put them to death at their discretion. We call this, “death with dignity.” Death with dignity is to live as a model to your children and grandchildren and to die knowing that you are loved by them and will be missed.

We, Americans, tend to believe everything the government tells us. My advice is, don’t. It’s very political, designed to keep the legislators out of trouble. They don’t want people to know that their tax dollars are being wasted, instead of going to their intended purpose. This produces a poverty that is the product of sin, not a free choice to live as Christ lived.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Respectfully sir, I want you to widen your horizon beyond American soil. I do agree that some of those in material poverty are the result of laziness and inaction on the part of the person. However, there are those whose poverty are borne of social sin.

For example: In the Philippines, a huge chunk of the population is below the poverty line and most of them in the country side. While they have industriously cultivated the land, the infrastructure that can ensure earnings and sustainability for them are not established. Why? Because local government officials pocket the money needed for this infrastructure.

In the cities, livelihood programs for the urban poor could have been established by local government units, but some are too busy putting their names on unnecessary waiting sheds than to prioritize them. The ones helping the poor are Non-Government Organizations and The Church.

Moreover, I don’t think the lack of spirituality can be equated to spiritual poverty. Spiritual poverty is an attitude of one’s heart to which a person grows in total dependence on God. I would call the lack of spirituality just that… lack of spirituality. At it’s worst, it’s dead spirituality.
Yes, I am beginning to look at this more of a sin as our society as a whole, as opposed to an individual. To be sure, this sin neither begins nor ends at American shores. The more I see this poverty, the more I see the sin begins and ends where those of us who can help in some way simply do not. Which of course includes me.
 
I said it somewhere else. This book changed my life. I was in 5th grade when I first read it. I was a Jewish boy. I fell in love with Francis of Assisi. From there, I read everything I could find on him. By the time I was in 10th grade, I was Catholic.

As a non-Christian, I was able to understand why the Church has called Francis of Assisi:
  • The Mirror of Perfection
  • The Alter Christus
  • The Perfect Christian
  • The Perfect Catholic
  • The Seraphic Father
  • The Icon of Christ
Pope Benedict gave him the last title, The Icon of Christ. If we lost the Gospels, we would be able to reconstruct the image of Christ by looking at Francis’ life and teachings.
Maybe its just me but I found some of the above quiet disturbing.

St. Francis was a great saint. But he is not Christ.

I find that this emphasis usually leads to Franciscans then claiming that their ways should be the ways of the church. I of course disagree.

St. Francis was born in the 1181. Christianity was flourishing and doing well even prior to St. Francis’s existence. Otherwise there probably wouldn’t even be a St. Francis to begin with.

So while I think St. Francis is a great saint, and had a nice way of imitating Christ, it was only one way of imitating Christ. There are many other valid ways and neither one should be expounded above others.

Therefore statements like “If we lost the Gospels, we would be able to reconstruct the image of Christ by looking at Francis’ life and teachings.” are a bit unfounded. At best, we will end up with one shade of the image of Christ.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top