The Perfection of Jesus (break out your Bible!)

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JesusFreak16

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Here goes.

“The Father and I are one,” Jesus said in John 10:30
If God and Jesus were one and Jesus sinned, then God sinned.

He was declared innocent 11 times.
  • Six times by Pilate (Matthew 27:24; Luke 23:14, 22; John 18:38; 19:4, 6)
    -Once by Herod (Luke 23:15)
    -Once by Pilate’s wife (Matthew 27:19)
    -Once by the repentant thief (Luke 23:41)
    -Once by a Roman centurian (Matthew 27:54)
    -Once by Judas (Matthew 27:4)
More:
Peter said, “He [Jesus] never sinned.” (1 Peter 2:22)
John said, “And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, for there is no sin in Him.” (1 John 3 :5)
Paul also said,“For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.” (2 Corinthians 5:21)

Bring it on! :tiphat:

God’s Peace~
Lisa
 
Your going to have to explain this one!

You say Jesus sinned and then list quotes saying he didn’t sin.

What’s your point? :confused:
 
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JGC:
Your going to have to explain this one!

You say Jesus sinned and then list quotes saying he didn’t sin.

What’s your point? :confused:
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Please tell me where I said that Jesus sinned? He didn’t.
I said that as an “If, then” statement that someone would say. I wanted you to tell me that you don’t think that and explain to me what you do think.

God’s Peace~
Lisa
 
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JesusFreak16:
Please tell me where I said that Jesus sinned? He didn’t.

God’s Peace~
Lisa
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If God and Jesus were one and Jesus sinned, then God sinned.
(from your thread opener.)
 
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jimmy:
We all agree that Jesus did not sin and he was perfect.
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Three different Catholic friends told me that their church says that Jesus sinned. Is that just a Roman Catholic thing or what?

God’s Peace~
Lisa
 
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JGC:
If God and Jesus were one and Jesus sinned, then God sinned.
(from your thread opener.)
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If you re-read my post, you’ll see that I changed it once I realized hwat you were referring to.

God’s Peace~
Lisa
 
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JesusFreak16:
Three different Catholic friends told me that their church says that Jesus sinned. Is that just a Roman Catholic thing or what?

God’s Peace~
Lisa
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They do not know what the church teaches then. The church has always taught that Jesus was perfect and without sin.
 
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jimmy:
They do not know what the church teaches then. The church has always taught that Jesus was perfect and without sin.
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They told me that Jesus sinned and that Mary was perfect. Do you disagree with both or just that Jesus wasn’t perfect?

God’s Peace~
Lisa
 
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JesusFreak16:
They told me that Jesus sinned and that Mary was perfect. Do you disagree with both or just that Jesus wasn’t perfect?

God’s Peace~
Lisa
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They were both perfect and without sin. Mary was perfect because she was given the grace of God to stay perfect and Jesus was perfect because he was God.
 
Jesus did not sin. End of Story.

Mary…

CCC 493

The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God “the All-Holy” (Panagia), and celebrate her as “free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature”.138 By the grace of God Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long.
 
The Catholic Church, way back in 451 AD declared,
"[W]e unanimously teach and confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ: the same perfect in divinity and perfect in humanity…"The Catholic Church still teaches that today.
 
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jimmy:
They were both perfect and without sin. Mary was perfect because she was given the grace of God to stay perfect and Jesus was perfect because he was God.
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Would you please provide me with some scripture that supports that Mary was perfect?
Oh, and please use examples from the Bible that I will be able to look up (I don’t have a Catholic bible).

God’s Peace~
Lisa
 
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JesusFreak16:
Would you please provide me with some scripture that supports that Mary was perfect?
Oh, and please use examples from the Bible that I will be able to look up (I don’t have a Catholic bible).

God’s Peace~
Lisa
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This is one that is from Holy Tradition. The only scripture reference you will get is Lk 1:48.

Again, do you accept the teaching of the early Church fathers and the Church or the reformers 1500 years later who can’t agree amongst themselves on most issues? Your choice.
:hmmm:
 
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JGC:
This is one that is from Holy Tradition. The only scripture reference you will get is Lk 1:48.

Again, do you accept the teaching of the early Church fathers and the Church or the reformers 1500 years later who can’t agree amongst themselves on most issues? Your choice.
:hmmm:
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It doesn’t matter if all the Protestant denoms can agree or not. They don’t agree. That’s why they have reformed themselves into so many like Methodist and the like

God’s Peace~
Lisa
 
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JesusFreak16:
Would you please provide me with some scripture that supports that Mary was perfect?
Oh, and please use examples from the Bible that I will be able to look up (I don’t have a Catholic bible).

God’s Peace~
Lisa
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“And I WILL PUT ENMITY BETWEEN YOU AND THE WOMAN(Note: This is singular, meaning* one and only one special woman*, Mary), and BETWEEN YOUR OFFSPRING AND HERS(I.E. Christ); IT (THE SEED) SHALL BRUISE THY (SATAN) head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”(Genesis3:8)
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Compare with
"And the GOD OF PEACE SHALL BRUISE SATAN…: (Romans 16:20)
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The genesis one is supposed to be a prophesy of Jesus and Mary. The Romans quote clearly refers back to that.

In order to have true enmity between the woman and the serpant(satan), she had to be completely free from him. The only way she could be free from satan would be if she did not sin and was not attached to sin like everyone else is.

In Luke 1 Mary is visited by the angel Gabriel.
26 And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.
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The angel greats her as Hail full of Grace. It is her title or name that he uses for her. For this to be true she had to be perfect because what it means to be “Full of Grace”. To be full of grace she must have been empty of every sin. No one else in the bible is ever refered to in this way.
 
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JGC:
This is one that is from Holy Tradition. The only scripture reference you will get is Lk 1:48.

Again, do you accept the teaching of the early Church fathers and the Church or the reformers 1500 years later who can’t agree amongst themselves on most issues? Your choice.
:hmmm:
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Genesis and Romans work also.
 
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JesusFreak16:
It doesn’t matter if all the Protestant denoms can agree or not. They don’t agree. That’s why they have reformed themselves into so many like Methodist and the like

God’s Peace~
Lisa
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It very much does.

Paul rebukes early Christians for disunity, "I am for… etc.

Church disunity is a total scandal.

Our witness is diminished. No 1 complaint from non Christians I know - Historical / current - physical / verbal inter denominational fighting.

Disunity of faith. Go to protestants and you will get different answers on everything from divorce, real presence, homosexual marriage etc, etc, etc.

for starters!
 
I have difficulty believing that 3 separate Catholics or even one Catholic for that matter said that Jesus sinned but the Virgin Mary never sinned. It would be a more believable error for them to have said that they both sinned. It seems like you are using this as a way to prove that we Catholics believe Mary is greater than Christ. By the way, the true answer is that both Christ and Mary never sinned. As for both Mary and Christ being perfect, I know Christ is, but does the Church teach Mary is also? Does perfection equate with sinlessness? I didn’t think they were the same thing.

In Christ,
Anthony
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JesusFreak16:
They told me that Jesus sinned and that Mary was perfect. Do you disagree with both or just that Jesus wasn’t perfect?

God’s Peace~
Lisa
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