The Perfection of Jesus (break out your Bible!)

[martino]

Originally Posted by JesusFreak16
*Would you please provide me with some scripture that supports that Mary was perfect?
Oh, and please use examples from the Bible that I will be able to look up (I don’t have a Catholic bible).

God’s Peace~
Lisa*

stumbler:

I also like:
Exodus 25:11-16 (among others) wherein God commands that the ark (which is to carry the Word of God) to be made of pure (purest, ceremonially, morally, physically) gold within and without.

Be careful stumbler; her Bible may not even contain the book of Exodus! Why would it?

 

[Malachi4U]

JesusFreak16:

Here goes.

“The Father and I are one,” Jesus said in John 10:30
If God and Jesus were one and Jesus sinned, then God sinned.

He was declared innocent 11 times.

• Six times by Pilate (Matthew 27:24; Luke 23:14, 22; John 18:38; 19:4, 6)
  -Once by Herod (Luke 23:15)
  -Once by Pilate’s wife (Matthew 27:19)
  -Once by the repentant thief (Luke 23:41)
  -Once by a Roman centurian (Matthew 27:54)
  -Once by Judas (Matthew 27:4)

More:
Peter said, “He [Jesus] never sinned.” (1 Peter 2:22)
John said, “And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, for there is no sin in Him.” (1 John 3 :5)
Paul also said,“For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.” (2 Corinthians 5:21)

Bring it on! :tiphat:

God’s Peace~
Lisa

Sorry Lisa but you don’t make any since here at all? Perhaps you could restate your question and use some facts too?

The is another thread here by Jason Goldrich (sp?) (he runs jcsm.com) that deals with errors in the Bible. He claims to be a protestant with all the answers on possible Bible errors. I suggest you ask him your question on the infalibilty of Scripture.

 

[Malachi4U]

JesusFreak16:

They told me that Jesus sinned and that Mary was perfect. Do you disagree with both or just that Jesus wasn’t perfect?

God’s Peace~
Lisa

Lisa,

Who are the ‘they’ that you refer to? Where do you get your information? What denomination? Who? This might help us to understand some of the vague things you refer to. It might help us to correct some of your false assumptions too.

You ask your questions in a manner that seems like a trap for anyone that answers. You also seem to have made up your mind as to the truth before you get a response. Knowing what sources you use besides the Bible would be of great help on this thread and others.

 

[joehar]

“For all haved sinned, and come short of the glory of God” (Romans
3:23). … short. “For the wages of sin is death…” (Romans 6:23). …

this includes Mary , she had favor with God

 

[jimmy]

“For all haved sinned, and come short of the glory of God” (Romans
3:23). … short. “For the wages of sin is death…” (Romans 6:23). …

this includes Mary , she had favor with God

By your translation it also includes Jesus because Jesus is included in all. There is no statement of exception for him.

 

[jimmy]

“For all haved sinned, and come short of the glory of God” (Romans
3:23). … short. “For the wages of sin is death…” (Romans 6:23). …

this includes Mary , she had favor with God

So you think Jesus has come short of the glory of God. You are in heresy. I will quote an anti-catholic who was on here, "REPENT AT ONCE! "

 

[joehar]

No Jesus is perfect he is God, i was talking about Mary

 

[DianJo]

Hello, people!

Have you noticed how JesusFreak starts a thread - asking a question in such a way that it seems that she’s trying to “pick a fight” so to speak, communictes with one or two more posts and then skips out never to be heard from again!

Don’t get me wrong, there’s some very good information coming out of these threads that can definitely serve to educate Catholics and especially, hopefully, dispell any misconceptions that any non-Catholic might have. But…

I don’t think JesusFreak is really being genuine in her “search for knowledge”.
It’s just an observation and if I’m wrong, I apologize, but that’s what it looks like.

 

[Corpus_Cristi]

JesusFreak16, if you can, can you post EXACTLY what your Catholic friends told you? If you can, or at least post a very close variation of what they said because I have the feeling that they didn’t say what you’re saying they said. There are a lot of things that Catholics say that Protestants turn around in an argument, or anywhere else. There are lots of things that people say that can be taken the wrong way or falsely paraphrased. Another thing to factor into this is that Catholics use words in a different way than protestants do sometimes, and Catholics use different speech than protestants do sometimes. It’s not hard to take something the wrong way when you hear something that you mistake for something else. If they did outrightlly say this, then they’re wrong. If they didn’t and they said something else, and you paraphrased what they said to mean something false, then we could be tangled up in something that wasn’t even there. I’m not saying that you did it inadvertantly, or on purpose, much less than you even did do this thing, I’m just asking if this is the case. From experience, I kinda have intuition . . .

 

[jimmy]

joehar:

No Jesus is perfect he is God, i was talking about Mary

Mary is also sinless(not perfect), God gave her the grace to stay sinless.

My point is that if you interpret the word all in Romans to literally be all then you must include Jesus. If you don’t interpret it completely literally then you must accept that it is possible that Mary is an exception to the rule.

 

[Raphael]

I have been a practicing catholic for about fifty years and I haven’t met three catholics that would say catholics believe that Jesus sinned. It makes me wonder how you could met three in one place.

Perhaps they felt you needed a lessen in credibility.

 

[hlgomez]

“For all haved sinned, and come short of the glory of God” (Romans
3:23). … short. “For the wages of sin is death…” (Romans 6:23). …

this includes Mary , she had favor with God

No Jesus is perfect he is God, i was talking about Mary

Since the Logos became Man, He has in His flesh and blood that of Mary. Just like when any human being who is born have with them the flesh and blood of their mother and father.
Do you believe that the Second Person of the Trinity who is God will be conceived in the womb of a sinful flesh and therefore inherit the sinful flesh (i’m referring to the original sin caused by Adam and Eve)?

Pio

 

[rschermer2]

JesusFreak16:

Here goes.

“The Father and I are one,” Jesus said in John 10:30
If God and Jesus were one and Jesus sinned, then God sinned.

Lisa,

What I’d like to know is what Christian every told you that Jesus sinned? I can guarentee you that never has the Catholic Church ever taught such a ridiculous thing.

rschermer

 

[rschermer2]

JesusFreak16:

Three different Catholic friends told me that their church says that Jesus sinned. Is that just a Roman Catholic thing or what?

God’s Peace~
Lisa

Many many protestant friends I know believe in their horoscope but do I think that is part of the teaching of their church?..no, I educate myself on the true teaching of their church before assuming that it teaches what potentially illinformed followers say.

 

[ahimsaman72]

JesusFreak16:

Three different Catholic friends told me that their church says that Jesus sinned. Is that just a Roman Catholic thing or what?

God’s Peace~
Lisa

Even as a baptist I can tell you that the catholic teaching is not what you have described. That’s really a ludicrous statement. As a matter of fact, I don’t know of any mainline protestant denomination that would say He sinned either. Heretical!

 

[rschermer2]

JesusFreak16:

They told me that Jesus sinned and that Mary was perfect. Do you disagree with both or just that Jesus wasn’t perfect?

God’s Peace~
Lisa

Lisa,

You know it isn’t very Christianly to lie. Given what you say about these ‘3 Catholic friends’ of yours I’m starting to think you either made them up or maybe they aren’t Catholic at all. You are being ridiculous, if you can give me one single legitimate Catholic writer who ever said Jesus sinned and Mary was perfect I would like you to, otherwise don’t believe your ‘3 Catholic friends’ because they are either lying or stupid.

rschermer

 

[ahimsaman72]

JesusFreak16:

Would you please provide me with some scripture that supports that Mary was perfect?
Oh, and please use examples from the Bible that I will be able to look up (I don’t have a Catholic bible).

God’s Peace~
Lisa

A true protestant indeed!

 

[rschermer2]

JesusFreak16:

Would you please provide me with some scripture that supports that Mary was perfect?
Oh, and please use examples from the Bible that I will be able to look up (I don’t have a Catholic bible).

God’s Peace~
Lisa

Lisa,

Don’t worry, you don’t need the Real Bible to be able to see the Scriptural evidence of Mary’s sinlessness, you can even use a Protestant abridged version that is unless they have changed it again and threw out some other books that don’t jive with their teaching.

Anyway, check out the following.

catholic.com/library/Mary_Full_of_Grace.asp
mariology.com/

There is plenty of biblical evidence.

Peace of Christ,
rschermer

 

[rschermer2]

JesusFreak16:

It doesn’t matter if all the Protestant denoms can agree or not. They don’t agree. That’s why they have reformed themselves into so many like Methodist and the like

God’s Peace~
Lisa

Lisa,

Can you show me scripturally where Jesus insisted that His Church be devided?

rschermer

 

[rschermer2]

JesusFreak16:

Please tell me where I said that Jesus sinned? He didn’t.
I said that as an “If, then” statement that someone would say. I wanted you to tell me that you don’t think that and explain to me what you do think.

God’s Peace~
Lisa

Lisa,

So you wish to believe your ‘3 Catholic friends’ (anyone notice the biblical use of the number 3 by the way) about the the Catholic Church teaches regarding Jesus having sinned even when every single Catholic on this site (who by the way must have at lease a kernel of knowledge about what the church teaches since they are here).

The fact is Jesus didn’t sin, the Church has never taught that and you should tell your ‘Catholic’ friends that they are incorrect. Unless of course you would rather they stay in error and leave the church if they haven’t already.

rschermer