The Pfleger-ization of the Catholic Church

[Beau_Ouiville]

Pfleger is pro-Obama.
Ergo, his priority is not the life of the unborn.
Not an untypical Catholic in that respect.

Since you have no basis for your comment on the priest, I find it highly uncharitable and inappropriate. Why don’t you deal with the issues and facts?

The cardinal met with the president before the inauguration, too. Does that make him not pro-life?

 

[catharina]

God is so wise and KIND.

 

[canadiangoose]

Not true. The right does not define what the faith it, the Church does and the right accepts that. The left wants to tell the Church what the faith should be.

For example: the right accepts the Church’s position that abortion is an intrinsic evil. The left does not, they want to be able to feel one way in Church, and another way everywhere else.

The left such as …Dodd…Kerry…Pelosi… and truly God rest his soul…Ted Kennedy. All are/were Catholic in name only. Oh…I forgot Biden.

Let’s all go out and have a party supporting abortion and gay marriage. That would make us Catholic in their eyes.

 

[humblelurker]

catharina,

I try to keep in mind the fact that God’s love defines his justice as seen in the last judgment. As a lurker, one of the problems I see many Catholics disagree with is people not taking responsibility within their community and delegating love for neighbor to the federal government. We can recognize the inalienable rights of others, and should enact just laws to recognize it. However, the Catholic Church’s support of subsidiarity systems demands local involvement to cure local problems. Many Catholics see a current cultural sloth sliding towards a collectivistic system, and they object accordingly. Since we Americans take politics very seriously this makes it ideal to cash in on political opinions on both sides, and to try to capture the hearts of the people for the future.

Just my humble understanding. People can take it or leave it.

 

[Brooklyn]

Father Pfleger to me is the poster child for I Corinthians 13. (For you Pfleger supporters, don’t get too excited):

“If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.”

Yes, Father Pfleger has done good things in his life, helping poor people. But as stated in this passage, what good is that when he has not shown love? His attack on Hillary Clinton and all white people was certainly not an example of love. Attacking the gun store owner was certainly not love. Embracing, both physically and ideologically, pro abortion politicians is not love. Proudly calling a hateful, racist anti-Semite (Farrakhan) his friend is not an example of love.

Father Pfleger is bombastic and caustic, and proudly so. He is not an example of love.

 

[catharina]

catharina,

I try to keep in mind the fact that God’s love defines his justice as seen in the last judgment. As a lurker, one of the problems I see many Catholics disagree with is people not taking responsibility within their community and delegating love for neighbor to the federal government. We can recognize the inalienable rights of others, and should enact just laws to recognize it. However, the Catholic Church’s support of subsidiarity systems demands local involvement to cure local problems. Many Catholics see a current cultural sloth sliding towards a collectivistic system, and they object accordingly. Since we Americans take politics very seriously this makes it ideal to cash in on political opinions on both sides, and to try to capture the hearts of the people for the future.

Just my humble understanding. People can take it or leave it.

Yet we are called to love all.
Father P loves many who are unloved in this world (and country).

I hope to find at my last judgment a Lord Who judges thus:
‘Much is forgiven because she has loved much.’
Perhaps Father hopes for a simlar judgement.

Father has worked wioth poor and dying teens who have been slaughtered in the streets.
He has worked, non-stop for 18 years, with their families too.
Why would any of us dare to judge him?

As you so wisely said, you might leave his parish. So far so good. No problem.

 

[Tigg]

Our disgust at Pfleger’s antics comes from the conviction that he is demeaning his priestly ministry. Is he predominantly a priest or a politician?

(Dated article, but relevant)

Outside of it, Pfleger, 59, has spent the 33 years of his priesthood among the impoverished black community on Chicago’s South Side creating a ministry that’s based in equal parts on a thoroughly Catholic understanding of the social gospel and its notion of God’s preferential option for the poor, and the not-so-Catholic belief in salvation by grace, through faith — period.

At the same time, Pfleger, who says he became a born-again Christian more than 30 years ago, also has built a public reputation for being a loudmouth rebel (some say renegade) — a rabble-rousing, bishop-defying troublemaker.

getreligion.org/?p=3643

aaahhhh……I’m getting an insight here….excuse the obvious contradiction in this quote from another columnist and the “social-gospel” rhetoric, but here we go again……for those who are confused, authentic Church teaching does not include a “preferential option for the poor,” which is rather, pure lib theology, not to be confused with authentic social justice teaching. (I knew it….I knew it……I knew it……)

So to recap, we have a dissident, rebellious priest, who was once suspended because of his political ploys, but who now is highly esteemed and honored with a lifetime achievement award by the president of the USCCB. Anyone else see a common thread here? I think I got it!

 

[catharina]

**Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, **it keeps no record of wrongs. ****Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."

Yes, Father Pfleger has done good things in his life, helping poor people. But as stated in this passage, what good is that when he has not shown love? His attack on Hillary Clinton and all white people was certainly not an example of love. Attacking the gun store owner was certainly not love. Embracing, both physically and ideologically, pro abortion politicians is not love. Proudly calling a hateful, racist anti-Semite (Farrakhan) his friend is not an example of love.

**
Yet you reach back to judge him. You keep a record of his wrongs.
What about your own wrongs. Do you have any?

(“Judge not, lest you be judged.”)**

 

[catharina]

Our disgust at Pfleger’s antics comes from the conviction that he is demeaning his priestly ministry. Is he predominantly a priest or a politician?

aaahhhh……I’m getting an insight here….excuse the obvious contradiction in this quote from another columnist and the “social-gospel” rhetoric, but here we go again……for those who are confused, authentic Church teaching does not include a “preferential option for the poor,” which is rather, pure lib theology, not to be confused with authentic social justice teaching. (I knew it….I knew it……I knew it……)

So to recap, we have a dissident, rebellious priest, who was once suspended because of his political ploys, but who now is highly esteemed and honored with a lifetime achievement award by the president of the USCCB. Anyone else see a common thread here? I think I got it!

How can ANY priest be called dissident and rebellious
when he is in union with his own Bishop?
Are you now the bishop of the archdiocese of Chicago?

 

[Brooklyn]

Yet we are called to love all.
Father P loves many who are unloved in this world (and country).

I hope to find at my last judgment a Lord Who judges thus:
‘Much is forgiven because she has loved much.’
Perhaps Father hopes for a simlar judgement.

Father has worked wioth poor and dying teens who have been slaughtered in the streets.
He has worked, non-stop for 18 years, with their families too.
Why would any of us dare to judge him?

As you so wisely said, you might leave his parish. So far so good. No problem.

I repeat what I said in a previous post - Father Pfleger is not an example of love. I do not judge him or anyone else, but I do judge his actions. And he has been an example of hatred and bigotry.

 

[Brooklyn]

How can ANY priest be called dissident and rebellious
when he is in union with his own Bishop?
Are you now the bishop of the archdiocese of Chicago?

Bishops are human beings and they have been known to be wrong on occasion.

 

[Brooklyn]

**
Yet you reach back to judge him. You keep a record of his wrongs.
What about your own wrongs. Do you have any?

(“Judge not, lest you be judged.”)**

I do not judge him - I judge his actions. His actions are not those of love, as expressed in I Corinthians 13.

 

[catharina]

I do not judge him - I judge his actions. His actions are not those of love, as expressed in I Corinthians 13.

Nor are yours.
You keep a record of HIS “wrongsd.”
Wow.

 

[Contarini]

The so-called right simply wants the Catholic Church to be…wait for it…gasp…Catholic! What a horror, what a terrible thing for people on the right to do, what a viscious attack to want the Catholic Church to actually become Catholic again.

Since you don’t explain what you mean by “Catholic,” your statement is completely empty. You appear to be redefining language arbitrarily so that “Catholic” means “what I and other political conservatives would like Catholicism to be.”

It simply expects the Church to hold-up its end of the deal and if the truth be told, the Church has let us down many times. The Catholic faith never lets us down, but the Church sure has and that is an undeniable fact. Abortion would not be legal if the Church, and Catholics, would simply be Catholic. The same goes for same sex marriage and a list of other things…as the Catholic Church goes, so does the world.

Substantiate. For starters, what “deal” has the Church made with the “right,” and why would this deal not be an unholy act of treachery to Christ if it actually existed? And then, of course, you need to explain how the Church has not “held up” its “end” of this supposed “deal.”

Edwin

 

[Brooklyn]

Nor are yours.
You keep a record of HIS “wrongsd.”
Wow.

You make a very weak argument. Father Pfleger is a public figure, and he is being publicly honored by his Bishop. Should we only look at the good things he has done and completely ignore all the scandalous things he has been involved in? It is not a matter of keeping a “record of his wrongs”, it is a matter of looking at the whole man, as I Corinthians tell us to do. And Father Pfleger comes up short.

 

[canadianguy1143]

Nor are yours.
You keep a record of HIS “wrongsd.”
Wow.

Unless you are telling us not to read the news then I can’t see how anyone is keeping a “record” of his wrongdoings. They are so outlandish that its hard for any intelligent person to forget.

 

[Contarini]

There is a portion of the Catholic society that believes that America is the greatest evil in human history. Pfleger is one of those, and posters like Catherina and Beau feel it is Michell Malkin who is the radical and divisive for disagreeing.

John Kennedy assured Americans that the Catholic Church was not a subversive force in America. Certainly the Catholic church that Michelle Malkin grew up in wasn’t.

I think too well of the Catholic Church to believe that you are entirely right, but no doubt it wasn’t as subversive as it should have been.

If the Church ceases to be subversive, it ceases to be the Church. If the salt loses its saltiness, with what can it be salted?

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

Today’s column by Michelle Malkin: The Pfleger-ization of the Catholic Church

townhall.com/columnists/MichelleMalkin/2010/04/09/the_pfleger-ization_of_the_catholic_church?page=1

"So much that you need to know about the Catholic Church’s social policy problems can be summed up in one word: Chicago. On race, abortion, guns, immigration and “community organizing,” Catholic Church officials in the Windy City have forged unholy alliances with radical left-wingers and enablers who undermine the faith – and the faithful. "

She failed to point out a single place where Fr. Pfleger has violated Catholic teaching.

Clearly he did engage in partisan politics in an inappropriate way, and he was rightly rapped on the knuckles for it. But however much Ms. Malkin may dislike his politics, she hasn’t shown that he’s unorthodox.

Edwin

 

[Brooklyn]

She failed to point out a single place where Fr. Pfleger has violated Catholic teaching.

Clearly he did engage in partisan politics in an inappropriate way, and he was rightly rapped on the knuckles for it. But however much Ms. Malkin may dislike his politics, she hasn’t shown that he’s unorthodox.

Edwin

Hatred and bigotry violate Catholic teaching. Yes, Father Pfleger is definitely “unorthodox.”

 

[humblelurker]

**
Yet you reach back to judge him. You keep a record of his wrongs.
What about your own wrongs. Do you have any?

(“Judge not, lest you be judged.”)**

Be careful:
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven” (Luke 6:37) is a club many people use to keep the people of God quiet. In Luke 12:57 Jesus asks, “Why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?” And St Paul tells us, “I am speaking as to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I am saying” (1 Corinthians 10:15). How can we judge and not judge? There are two different kinds of judgments. First, judging a person’s eternal salvation, and second, judging what is right and wrong. We are never to judge or condemn people as eternally damned, for there is always hope of repentance and eternal salvation while people live. But this is neither a means to keep the people of God quiet when they rebuke sin or rebuke those who persist in sin because we can judge what is right and wrong. We can judge a tree by the fruit it bears (Luke 6:43-44), but not the tree’s eternal destination (that judgment belongs to God). Saint Paul tells us, “As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear” (1 Timothy 5:20). And also, “This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith” (Titus 1:13). When we condemn anyone as eternally damned then we condemn ourselves as damned (Luke 6:37), but when we hold out hope for others then we have hope ourselves. However, we must rebuke those who sin by speaking out against their sins. After all, holiness is our ultimate goal, and in love we desire it for ourselves as well as for others. We should be forever forgiving of people, but never condoning of sin. I don’t believe everyone critical of Father Pfleger is judging his eternal destination, but see problem areas in Father Pfleger’s life (I can even see that). If they care about the example he gives as a priest then they will speak up. It’s only natural. I believe Saint Catherine of Siena even was critical in her life at Church Officials, if I remember correctly.