The Pfleger-ization of the Catholic Church

[catharina]

Your defense of a diSSenter priest is interesting.

Will you do the same of a orthodox priest?

And here’s an interesting thing: You’re keeping a record of the wrongs of the poster who is criticizing this diSSenter priest. Will you admit your contradiction of 1 COR 13?

Wanna buy a chain saw for the log?

I pointed out to that poster that his presenting of 1 COR 13:1-13
included the words “keep a record of wrongs” just as the poster is doing.

I don’t CARE what the poster is doing or what you think about it (or me); rather I care that his bishop, Cardinal George is giving an award to Father Pfleger so the poster’s accusations against Father and the bishop are worth nothing. That you or others or Malkin thinks that’s bad - too bad for you. So be it.

PS - Pray for the bishops.
Don’t throw stones at them.
Good night.

 

[BobCatholic]

I don’t CARE what the poster is doing

Then why do you keep a record of the poster’s wrongs?

PS - Pray for the bishops.
Don’t throw stones at them.
Good night.

Nobody is talking about throwing stones at the Bishops. However, rebuking them is not out of bounds.

But then again, Paul was out of line when he rebuked Peter? According to your standard, yes.

A text out of context becomes a pretext.

You didn’t answer my question anyway. Would you defend an orthodox priest/bishop just as you are defending a diSSenter?

Proverbial chain saws for sale…

 

[canadianguy1143]

In FEB 2008, Belafonte spoke at St. Sabina’s.
You could send a note to Father Pfleger demanding an apology.

Otherwise you might want to accept the fact that
this priest is at peace with his bishop.
An OK from you is not necessary.

So - everything hunky-dory in Canada?

So if I scandalize anyone prior to February 2008, its no longer scandal? There is a statute of limitations on scandal? I guess you can’t be scandalized with Priests and Brothers who rape children prior to Feb 2008?

As for everything being hunky-dory in Canada, let me tell you about the time in 1968 where after Humanae Vitae was published the Bishops met and said that Catholics could disregard that. So with that unique bit of history, it made realize that Bishops are not God and just because the Bishop says or does something, doesn’t make it so.

This isn’t about Canada versus US.

 

[Brooklyn]

catharina, your posts seem very angry and accusatory. My only response to you is that you want us all to focus on only the good things Fr. Pfleger has done and forget about everything else. And Fr. P has done some very wonderful things. But so did Al Capone and John Gotti, to give just 2 examples. Maybe they should have gotten awards as well. I quoted I Cor because it tells us that we need to look at the whole person and that good actions can be cancelled out by bad actions. Your only defense to this is to attack anyone who disagrees with you. You do not deny that Fr. Pfleger has engaged in outrageous scandalous behaviour. Why should this behavior be ignored? It is part of who he is just as being cold blooded murderers was part of who Capone and Gotti were. If Pfleger were to come out and denounce his sandalous behaviour, that would change everything and then I would agree with you. But he hasn’t done that and so it stands and must be considered.

 

[catharina]

catharina, your posts seem very angry and accusatory. My only response to you is that you want us all to focus on only the good things Fr. Pfleger has done and forget about everything else. And Fr. P has done some very wonderful things. But so did Al Capone and John Gotti, to give just 2 examples. Maybe they should have gotten awards as well. I quoted I Cor because it tells us that we need to look at the whole person and that good actions can be cancelled out by bad actions. Your only defense to this is to attack anyone who disagrees with you. You do not deny that Fr. Pfleger has engaged in outrageous scandalous behaviour. Why should this behavior be ignored? It is part of who he is just as being cold blooded murderers was part of who Capone and Gotti were. If Pfleger were to come out and denounce his sandalous behaviour, that would change everything and then I would agree with you. But he hasn’t done that and so it stands and must be considered.

Please respond to Post 111. Your assumptions are disgusting.

I loathe the tendency of some Catholics who are willing to feed scandal.
I loathe it when Catholics follow the lead of columnists.
I loathe it when Catholics are NOT as merciful and grace-filled as a Bishop.
I loathe it when Catholics instead deride a Bishop, attacking his actions.

I loathe cruelty in a matter that should be recognized and tolerated - at the least.
So does seeing such things make me angry. Yes.
I loathe it when Catholics jump up and disregard a Bishop’s decisions.
LOATHE it.

 

[discomike2000]

Apropos to the discussion here, I thought all those defending Fr. Pfleger and Cardinal George might be interested in viewing some aspects of Fr. Pfleger’s most recent Mass.

Considering Fr. Pfleger live-streams all of his Sunday Masses on the internet, Cardinal George could not have NOT known that he was doing this … and yet, he gave him an award anyway? What the heck is going on???

Here are the clips, and a few brief descriptions:

Eucharistic prayer and consecration (no sign of the cross? Actually, in 3 hours, there wasn’t a SINGLE sign of the cross to be seen at any point!):
youtube.com/watch?v=28PFyP0UTS0

Fr. Pfleger calls for women priests, bishops, and cardinals (this is heresy):
youtube.com/watch?v=3HNOsR4ZaTc

Jesus with revolutionary clenched fist, plus “musical” cacophony:
youtube.com/watch?v=ce-zDNE8zZM

From Holy Thursday, another botched Eucharistic Prayer:
youtube.com/watch?v=KjMWbQ7UXOE

 

[Stylite]

Fr. Pfleger called for women priests? Well that settles the question then and goes way beyond politics.

We should all pray for our bishops.

 

[catharina]

We should all pray for our bishops.

… as I’ve said repeatedly. No joke. Pray for our Bishops.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Please respond to Post 111. Your assumptions are disgusting.

I loathe the tendency of some Catholics who are willing to feed scandal.

You must then LOATHE Fr. Pfleger’s scandalous tendancies

I loathe it when Catholics follow the lead of columnists.

Agreeing with a columnist is not the same as making her Pope

I loathe it when Catholics are NOT as merciful and grace-filled as a Bishop.

Whose posts are the most angry and graceless here?

I loathe it when Catholics instead deride a Bishop, attacking his actions.

As has been the case with any number of bishops, such as Archbishop Raymond Burke.

I loathe cruelty in a matter that should be recognized and tolerated - at the least.

Who is being cruel here?

So does seeing such things make me angry. Yes.
I loathe it when Catholics jump up and disregard a Bishop’s decisions.
LOATHE it.

You have made yourself judge and jury over posters with whom you disagree, attacking them of being merciless and ungrace-filled. You know nothing of there personal actions. You are denying them a right to their opinions, labeling them “judgmental” when you are in fact doing the same thing.

 

[catharina]

You must then LOATHE Fr. Pfleger’s scandalous tendancies
Agreeing with a columnist is not the same as making her Pope Whose posts are the most angry and graceless here? As has been the case with any number of bishops, such as Archbishop Raymond Burke.
Who is being cruel here?You have made yourself judge and jury over posters with whom you disagree, attacking them of being merciless and ungrace-filled. You know nothing of there personal actions. Their very words are actions. When their “opinions” insult a BISHOP, yes I object. So should YOU.
I am defending a Bishop and a priest as others attack them. You are denying them a right to their opinions, labeling them “judgmental” when you are in fact doing the same thing.

**Since when is it grace-filled to rely on the opinions of secular columnists?
Since when should Catholics ignore the acts of a Bishop by repudiating him?
Since when should a Bishop, in the good graces of Rome, have to defend his actions?
Do I loathe it when Catholics decide to highlight SCANDAL
rather than holding on to their Faith and the Church?
Giving scandal, supporting scandal is horribly wrong.
Listing the wrongs of another is scandalous.

Two people are being attacked:
a priest and his Bishop.
Yes, I loathe that tendency of the presumably holier-than-thou crowd.**

 

[qui_est_ce]

Since when is it grace-filled to rely on the opinions of secular columnists?

Did you even read my post?

qui:

Agreeing with a columnist is not the same as making her Pope

Since when should Catholics ignore the acts of a Bishop by repudiating him?
Since when should a Bishop, in the good graces of Rome, have to defend his actions?

Since at least St. Catherine of Sienna and the Babylonian exile.

Catharina:

Do I loathe it when Catholics decide to highlight SCANDAL

I loathe it when PRIESTS decide to highlight scandal by livestreaming his opposition to Papal Authority

Catarina:

rather than holding on to their Faith and the Church?

Are you saying people who are scandalized by Fr Pfleger’s opposition to Papal Authority are not holding on to their Faith and Church?

Catharina:

Giving scandal, supporting scandal is horribly wrong.

Tell that to Fr. Pfleger next time he calls for the “ordination” of women.

Catharina:

Listing the wrongs of another is scandalous.

Isn’t that what you are doing here?

Catharina:

Two people are being attacked:
a priest and his Bishop.

They are not being attacked. We are having a discussion and you declared ware.

Catharina:

Yes, I loathe that tendency of the holier-than-thou crowd.

Yes, you are most holy and grace-filled, as evidenced by your charitable and merciful replies to people who disagree with you.

 

[Tigg]

Apropos to the discussion here, I thought all those defending Fr. Pfleger and Cardinal George might be interested in viewing some aspects of Fr. Pfleger’s most recent Mass.

Considering Fr. Pfleger live-streams all of his Sunday Masses on the internet, Cardinal George could not have NOT known that he was doing this … and yet, he gave him an award anyway? What the heck is going on???

Here are the clips, and a few brief descriptions:

Eucharistic prayer and consecration (no sign of the cross? Actually, in 3 hours, there wasn’t a SINGLE sign of the cross to be seen at any point!):
youtube.com/watch?v=28PFyP0UTS0

Fr. Pfleger calls for women priests, bishops, and cardinals (this is heresy):
youtube.com/watch?v=3HNOsR4ZaTc

Jesus with revolutionary clenched fist, plus “musical” cacophony:
youtube.com/watch?v=ce-zDNE8zZM

From Holy Thursday, another botched Eucharistic Prayer:
youtube.com/watch?v=KjMWbQ7UXOE

I’ve never seen these before and didn’t realize how serious the infractions were. I’m absolutely speechless! How can it possibly be that this total disregard for the GIRM is allowed to continue? For the faithful Catholics of this diocese, is there any recourse for them?

 

[catharina]

Did you even read my post? Sure did.

Since at least St. Catherine of Sienna and the Babylonian exile.

You’ve made my point.
The outraged posters are akin to Catherine of Siena?
Sure - except she was never outraged in her expressions of correction.
Keep on throwing those stones (rocks?).
It will build your upper-body strength.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I’ve never seen these before and didn’t realize how serious the infractions were. I’m absolutely speechless! How can it possibly be that this total disregard for the GIRM is allowed to continue? For the faithful Catholics of this diocese, is there any recourse for them?

It’s pretty egregious.

 

[JulieAA]

Those videos make me speechless!!

 

[humblelurker]

Apropos to the discussion here, I thought all those defending Fr. Pfleger and Cardinal George might be interested in viewing some aspects of Fr. Pfleger’s most recent Mass.

Considering Fr. Pfleger live-streams all of his Sunday Masses on the internet, Cardinal George could not have NOT known that he was doing this … and yet, he gave him an award anyway? What the heck is going on???

Here are the clips, and a few brief descriptions:

Eucharistic prayer and consecration (no sign of the cross? Actually, in 3 hours, there wasn’t a SINGLE sign of the cross to be seen at any point!):
youtube.com/watch?v=28PFyP0UTS0

Fr. Pfleger calls for women priests, bishops, and cardinals (this is heresy):
youtube.com/watch?v=3HNOsR4ZaTc

Jesus with revolutionary clenched fist, plus “musical” cacophony:
youtube.com/watch?v=ce-zDNE8zZM

From Holy Thursday, another botched Eucharistic Prayer:
youtube.com/watch?v=KjMWbQ7UXOE

Am I surprised? No! This is recent, very serious, and open opposition to the Catholic Church’s teaching. I’m not sure about Church law in such cases involving clergy, but something official should be done. If Fr. P’s superiors will not do something then perhaps an appeal to Rome is in order.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

Am I surprised? No! This is recent, very serious, and open opposition to the Catholic Church’s teaching. I’m not sure about Church law in such cases involving clergy, but something official should be done. If Fr. P’s superiors will not do something then perhaps an appeal to Rome is in order.

Well, you should note that the cardinal has attended services at St. Sabina’s and did take issue with some of the liturgy. But, enforcing orthodoxy in the liturgy in the cardinal’s responsibility. One of his first acts as cardinal was to tell all congregations to kneel during the Offertory and not to take up so much time giving each other the sign of peace – two rules which surely impacted on my parish.

So two things:

1. This may not be ‘very serious’.
2. The cardinal is aware of the practices.

Folks here probably dislike the choir, too. They should check out the choirs at St. Columbanus and St. Ailbe’s.

 

[discomike2000]

Well, you should note that the cardinal has attended services at St. Sabina’s and did take issue with some of the liturgy. But, enforcing orthodoxy in the liturgy in the cardinal’s responsibility. One of his first acts as cardinal was to tell all congregations to kneel during the Offertory and not to take up so much time giving each other the sign of peace – two rules which surely impacted on my parish.

So two things:

1. This may not be ‘very serious’.
2. The cardinal is aware of the practices.

Folks here probably dislike the choir, too. They should check out the choirs at St. Columbanus and St. Ailbe’s.

If the Cardinal is aware of these things, that makes his granting an award to Fr. Pfleger that much more scandalous and terrible! For one thing, while the consecration MAY be valid, it is CERTAINLY illicit! The liturgical abuses taking place are inexcusable! But even more to the point, Fr. Pfleger’s calling for women’s ordination is nothing short of heresy.

From ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS:

1. Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.

 

[Stylite]

I’m wondering specifically about the consecration at the Holy Thursday mass. Did Fr. Pfleger change enough of the words of consecration to render it invalid? What about the bread he used?

youtube.com/watch?v=KjMWbQ7UXOE

 

[catharina]

I’m wondering specifically about the consecration at the Holy Thursday mass. Did Fr. Pfleger change enough of the words of consecration to render it invalid? What about the bread he used?

youtube.com/watch?v=KjMWbQ7UXOE

Only slightly off-topic,
I’m wondering how many posters supported former Archbishop Lefebvre
as opposed to their distaste for in-good-standing Cardinal George.