The Place of a woman?

[Montie_Claunch]

This is kind of an odd question but here it goes anyhow. I was listening to Ray Charles and in his song “I got a woman” (?) part of the song goes as such, “…She never goes out into the street, leaving me alone, she knows a womans place, is right there in here home…”. Though I was born a bit after the bulk of Womens lib. Movement I gather the concesus of “Us women can do anything just a good as men.” as their rally for equallity in (and entry into) the work place. My question is what is the proper place of a woman, a Housewife (or Nun) or in the work place? What does the church say about this? Thanks and God bless.

 

[JP2Admirer]

Montie Claunch:

This is kind of an odd question but here it goes anyhow. I was listening to Ray Charles and in his song “I got a woman” (?) part of the song goes as such, “…She never goes out into the street, leaving me alone, she knows a womans place, is right there in here home…”. Though I was born a bit after the bulk of Womens lib. Movement I gather the concesus of “Us women can do anything just a good as men.” as their rally for equallity in (and entry into) the work place. My question is what is the proper place of a woman, a Housewife (or Nun) or in the work place? What does the church say about this? Thanks and God bless.

Check out JP2’s Evangelium Vitae and Mulieris Dignitatem. As for a woman’s place, it’s where God calls her too.

JP2 basically says that businesses should be more conducive to motherhood. With technological advances such as the internet, he thinks women shouldn’t have to give up motherhood to pursue career. They should be able to work from home, etc. But he does say that children need their mothers.

I think JP2 hits it right on here. Personally, it would be awesome to me if my wife would want to stay home and raise the kids (if, God willing we have them.) However, if she doesn’t want that, I’d be happy with her decision.

I just keep trying to get the cultural attitude that staying at home with children is not a legitimate career out of her head. I can’t think of a more IMPORTANT career than that. I think it would be pretty fulfilling too. In fact, I’d offer to stay at home with the kids, but I’m no mother. There are just natural special gifts given to women that guys don’t have when it comes to rearing children.

God calls us to self-sacrifice, and I can’t think of a quicker path to saint-hood for lay women than motherhood. Motherhood is complete self-sacrifice. And as GK Chesterton once wrote, “Why do women want to give up motherhood so they can be something to everyone? Wouldn’t they rather be everything to someone?”

But as I said earlier, women shouldn’t have to give up career to have kids. If I were an employer, I’d try to make their work conducive to their motherhood. I guess I’m just old fashioned.

 

[wacky_wonderful]

Well, as an old timer, I can tell you that I did what was expected of me and stayed home when my daughter was small. She hated it! She begged to go to a babysitter, knowing that she could get away with more there than she could at home with me. The downside of staying home for years is that when my ex decided he no longer wanted to be married, I had been out of the workforce for a very long time and the climb out of the pit ain’t over yet and it’s been over 2 years. So, if I could do it all over again, I would work part-time and not worry about it. Even volunteering is a good idea. Anything to keep your brain from turning to mush…I really thought I was keeping up with things when I was at home all the time. I read the paper, read books, watched the news and was online a lot. But nothing prepares you for the fast pace of the working world and the new “dump and run” method of training. That was a bit of a shock, since the last time I had worked was back in the days when a WEEK of training was the norm. These days you better catch it the first time they tell you. Fortunately, I now have a job where they took the time and spent a lot of money to train me, so in return, I will never quit. Even if I remarry and the man is obscenely rich, I’d still work.

 

[Crumpy]

wacky&wonderful:

…I will never quit. Even if I remarry and the man is obscenely rich, I’d still work.

Except for forum rules, I’d ask you for your phone number!

 

[wacky_wonderful]

Crumpy:

Except for forum rules, I’d ask you for your phone number!

You made my day! Thanks!

 

[JamesG]

Montie Claunch:

Though I was born a bit after the bulk of Womens lib. Movement I gather the concesus of “Us women can do anything just a good as men.”

The biggest lie told to youth for the last 30 years is that “you can do anything you want”.

That is the counter truth to what Christ shows us.
“You should do what God wants you do to?”

In order to know what God wants you to do you have to understand yourself mentally, physically, and spiritually.

Can you think of any reason why a God would reject a woman for being a loving wife?

The truth is we will have no need for a career when Christ returns.

Fulfillment does not come from a career. Fulfillment comes from acting on a speaking the word of God.

I once dated a woman that had a career only because she was worried about never having the option of divorce. I was shocked because I couldn’t believe that she was planning for a divorce before she was even married.

It really hurts when I think about all the lies that are told to young women growing up today.

But I guess the less love, families, and children there are the more Satan is able to strike at God.

The truth is we all have a place in life. Women have a place in life. Men have a place in life. That place is the path that Christ wants us to follow. We are NEVER the one that should lead our lives. That burden is left to Christ. We cannot follow Christ if what we seek is power over our lives and those around us. All we need do is have faith and take our place beside him as we walk toward eternal life.

 

[wacky_wonderful]

Ok, men. Listen up. When a couple divorces, the man’s standard of living stays the same or improves. The woman’s goes down as much as 80%. Love, honor, cherish…talk is cheap! I was married almost 23 years and long story short, I am told that I can pack a suitcase and go stand at the curb. Community property laws? Ha! They’re no guarantee.

IF men would do what God created them to do, it would be a different story altogether. Why have you abdicated your responsibility as head of household and spiritual leader of the family? Why do you wimp out and let your woman do it all? I didn’t want to be the boss, but I was forced into it. It’s not what I do best. It’s not what God wanted, but guess what…I had to do it because my husband wouldn’t. If you lead, I will follow, as long as you don’t lead me into a burning building or off a cliff. There is a scripture, and I sure wish I had the chapter and verse memorized, that says whatever a wife does, God will ask the husband what he did or didn’t do to cause it to happen. You are responsible for us and you let us down. Sounds awful, I know. IMHO women’s lib was a mistake of major proportions.

Sad to say, but all young women need to be prepared to take care of themselves (be totally self sufficient) at any point in life, whether they are stay at home mothers or not. One of my friends told me I might still be married if I hadn’t treated my husband so well. She says he took me for granted. This friend has been married 45 years. Her husband has told me that she doesn’t love him.

What do you men want? What would it take to get you to step up to the plate and LEAD like you’re supposed to? I’m listening…

 

[JamesG]

wacky&wonderful:

Ok, men. Listen up. When a couple divorces, the man’s standard of living stays the same or improves. The woman’s goes down as much as 80%. Love, honor, cherish…talk is cheap! I was married almost 23 years and long story short, I am told that I can pack a suitcase and go stand at the curb. Community property laws? Ha! They’re no guarantee.

IF men would do what God created them to do, it would be a different story altogether. Why have you abdicated your responsibility as head of household and spiritual leader of the family? Why do you wimp out and let your woman do it all? I didn’t want to be the boss, but I was forced into it. It’s not what I do best. It’s not what God wanted, but guess what…I had to do it because my husband wouldn’t. If you lead, I will follow, as long as you don’t lead me into a burning building or off a cliff. There is a scripture, and I sure wish I had the chapter and verse memorized, that says whatever a wife does, God will ask the husband what he did or didn’t do to cause it to happen. You are responsible for us and you let us down. Sounds awful, I know. IMHO women’s lib was a mistake of major proportions.

Sad to say, but all young women need to be prepared to take care of themselves (be totally self sufficient) at any point in life, whether they are stay at home mothers or not. One of my friends told me I might still be married if I hadn’t treated my husband so well. She says he took me for granted. This friend has been married 45 years. Her husband has told me that she doesn’t love him.

What do you men want? What would it take to get you to step up to the plate and LEAD like you’re supposed to? I’m listening…

You say that all women need to be prepared to take care of themselves?

What I don’t understand about this is the following

1… How can a woman let her self get married to a man that doesn’t have the utmost faith in Christ?

1. How much faith in God do you have if you say, “what if I get divorced?”
2. Why is divorce an option?
3. Why would anyone get married to someone if they haven’t rejected the concept of divorce?

As a catholic man that has faith in Christ divorce is NEVER an option.

You are so right about men not stepping up and taking the lead. The problem is that men today are told that women don’t want that. They are told that they are not allowed to be providers and they are told that they are not allowed to act like men. The concept of what it means to be a real man is lost today. "It is referred to as male positioning” All the good and loving qualities that make a man are referred to as “feminine” or “this feminine side” In other words, a man is not capable of showing love and compassion.

The feminists and the media degrade masculinity at every chance they get.

instead of saying “he’s protective” they’ll say “he’s oppressive”

instead of saying “he’s smart” they’ll complain “he demeans my intelligence”

instead of saying “he’s hard-working” they’ll say “he’s obsessed with work”

instead of saying “he’s confident” they’ll say “he’s Arrogant”

American women have been born and raised in the corrosive negative world of feminism. They can’t help but think like a feminist and view the world like a feminist.
So they have learned to always emphasize the negative things about men, never the positive. In any given opportunity…

Also, there is a more dangerous issue, here.

Men are very “susceptible” to women’s opinions of us. Let’s face it, when we get married, we are very likely to start changing in response to our woman’s needs. We can’t help it…her emotions are so strong, and our sense of responsibility to her is so deep, that we can’t help but slowly become the man she envisions us

This is why a man should never marry a feminist, he will slowly change to become the bad man that she sees. All the negative aspects of him (which he probably learned to suppress and minimize) will suddenly start to crop up.

Women need to remember that they can’t get away with degrading the definition of masculinity and promote women as “victems”

 

[luvmykids]

JamesG:

You say that all women need to be prepared to take care of themselves?

What I don’t understand about this is the following

1… How can a woman let her self get married to a man that doesn’t have the utmost faith in Christ?

1. How much faith in God do you have if you say, “what if I get divorced?”
2. Why is divorce an option?
3. Why would anyone get married to someone if they haven’t rejected the concept of divorce?

As a catholic man that has faith in Christ divorce is NEVER an option.

You are so right about men not stepping up and taking the lead. The problem is that men today are told that women don’t want that. They are told that they are not allowed to be providers and they are told that they are not allowed to act like men. The concept of what it means to be a real man is lost today. "It is referred to as male positioning” All the good and loving qualities that make a man are referred to as “feminine” or “this feminine side” In other words, a man is not capable of showing love and compassion.

The feminists and the media degrade masculinity at every chance they get.

instead of saying “he’s protective” they’ll say “he’s oppressive”

instead of saying “he’s smart” they’ll complain “he demeans my intelligence”

instead of saying “he’s hard-working” they’ll say “he’s obsessed with work”

instead of saying “he’s confident” they’ll say “he’s Arrogant”

American women have been born and raised in the corrosive negative world of feminism. They can’t help but think like a feminist and view the world like a feminist.
So they have learned to always emphasize the negative things about men, never the positive. In any given opportunity…

Also, there is a more dangerous issue, here.

Men are very “susceptible” to women’s opinions of us. Let’s face it, when we get married, we are very likely to start changing in response to our woman’s needs. We can’t help it…her emotions are so strong, and our sense of responsibility to her is so deep, that we can’t help but slowly become the man she envisions us

This is why a man should never marry a feminist, he will slowly change to become the bad man that she sees. All the negative aspects of him (which he probably learned to suppress and minimize) will suddenly start to crop up.

Women need to remember that they can’t get away with degrading the definition of masculinity and promote women as “victems”

You’re emotions are strong? Women have pretty strong emotions as well, and I think that there is dual responsiblity here. YOu are making it sound like women made men act the way they do. I am NOT feminist in any way, but I have seen people very close to me, put all their faith in their husband only to find out he is cheating, or leaving them and then they are left with nothing. It’s a scary thing. How is a woman suppose to be submissive, when they aren’t being respected?

 

[precious_roy]

JamesG:

You say that all women need to be prepared to take care of themselves?

What I don’t understand about this is the following

1… How can a woman let her self get married to a man that doesn’t have the utmost faith in Christ?

1. How much faith in God do you have if you say, “what if I get divorced?”
2. Why is divorce an option?
3. Why would anyone get married to someone if they haven’t rejected the concept of divorce?

As a catholic man that has faith in Christ divorce is NEVER an option.

Love this. There is only one problem however:

People can change.

I have seen people go from the most loving, devoted Catholics to being crazy hedonists and vice versa. I know that you can try and know a person as best as possible but you never quite know exactly what they are going to become because you cannot predict the future. Sometimes people lie and go to great, and I mean GREAT, lengths to cover it up.

 

[luvmykids]

precious_roy:

Love this. There is only one problem however:

People can change.

I have seen people go from the most loving, devoted Catholics to being crazy hedonists and vice versa. I know that you can try and know a person as best as possible but you never quite know exactly what they are going to become because you cannot predict the future. Sometimes people lie and go to great, and I mean GREAT, lengths to cover it up.

That was also one of my points that I wanted to make. It’s not always about knowing the person before you marry them… The one person I know was dead set against divorce. He made my friend promise before they got married that they would never divorce and he was cheating on her, said he was leaving, and that he loved someone else about 5years later.

 

[JamesG]

luvmykids:

You’re emotions are strong? Women have pretty strong emotions as well, and I think that there is dual responsiblity here. YOu are making it sound like women made men act the way they do. I am NOT feminist in any way, but I have seen people very close to me, put all their faith in their husband only to find out he is cheating, or leaving them and then they are left with nothing. It’s a scary thing. How is a woman suppose to be submissive, when they aren’t being respected?

ok first of all. please read it again. I said, “her emotions are strong”

I am saying that the negative aspects of feminism have corupted the definition and role of a man in our society. I am also saying that to a large extent women have a responsibility to be a nurturer toward their husband and their childern. A womans word can touch the heart of a man that loves her.

The worst thing a person can do is get married to someone that does not have faith in christ and expect them to stay with you.

The bible says that if you get married to someone that does not follow the teachings of christ then you must let them go.

With that said, why would anyone get married to someone that

1. does not go to church
2. does not show faith in Christ
3. does not pray.

Why anyone who does all those things cheat on someone?

The problem is that many people get married for the wrong reasons. They lack a true understand of love and they base everything on their emotions and the fantacy proliferated by the media.

You must first ask. "what are the qualities that Christ wants be to look for in a husband (or wife)?

Do not ask opra.

Peaople change about every 7-8 years anyway. Our interests change, our personality changes.

That is why it is so important to realize that when married we have the responsibility to always help the other person attain eternal life. It is a constant battle that must be won. All we need do is focus on the good qualities of our spouse.

 

[deb1]

Montie Claunch:

Though I was born a bit after the bulk of Womens lib. Movement I gather the concesus of “Us women can do anything just a good as men.” as their rally for equallity in (and entry into) the work place. .

Intellectually, we can do **anything **that men can do. It is in bodily strength that we differ. Physically most men are stronger then most women with a few rare exceptions.

Personally I don’t see what is wrong with a woman saying that she can do everything that a man can do, as long as she doesn’t mean body strength.

 

[precious_roy]

deb1:

Intellectually, we can do **anything **that men can do. It is in bodily strength that we differ. Physically most men are stronger then most women with a few rare exceptions.

Personally I don’t see what is wrong with a woman saying that she can do everything that a man can do, as long as she doesn’t mean body strength.

Actually I consider myself a strong male (I am a personal trainer so its kinda my job) but I have trained females that could out-bench, and particularly out-squat, me. Don’t sell yourself short; you can do anything that you put your mind to and you believe in.

 

[deb1]

precious_roy:

Actually I consider myself a strong male (I am a personal trainer so its kinda my job) but I have trained females that could out-bench, and particularly out-squat, me. Don’t sell yourself short; you can do anything that you put your mind to and you believe in.

My hubby is in the Air Force but he supports the 82nd Airborne, which means that he works with a lot of jumpers. There is a female lieutenant, a very small woman, who is also a jumper. My hubby says that she does everything the guys do, including playing combat soccer.(That sounds painful to me) So, I know that it is possible but I think most women don’t get to this level of physical strength.

Do the women that you work with have to do more strength training to get to the same levels as guys or is the amount of training they do the same?

 

[precious_roy]

deb1:

My hubby is in the Air Force but he supports the 82nd Airborne, which means that he works with a lot of jumpers. There is a female lieutenant, a very small woman, who is also a jumper. My hubby says that she does everything the guys do, including playing combat soccer.(That sounds painful to me) So, I know that it is possible but I think most women don’t get to this level of physical strength.

Do the women that you work with have to do more strength training to get to the same levels as guys or is the amount of training they do the same?

It’s not a issue of more or less but an issue of what to train and how to train it. Statistically an untrained female has more complete leg strength (quadracep, hamstring, flexor) than an untrained male but their upper bodies tend to be a little weaker. So the focus itself is a little different. I cannot say that they have to do more, they just have to train smarter. Which should apply to everyone but sometimes guys just get this bodybuilding routine out of a magazine and do it unchanged and get nowhere and wonder what they are doing wrong…

Sorry, I am ranting.

 

[deb1]

JamesG:

ok first of all. please read it again. I said, “her emotions are strong”

I am saying that the negative aspects of feminism have corupted the definition and role of a man in our society. I am also saying that to a large extent women have a responsibility to be a nurturer toward their husband and their childern. A womans word can touch the heart of a man that loves her.

The worst thing a person can do is get married to someone that does not have faith in christ and expect them to stay with you.

The bible says that if you get married to someone that does not follow the teachings of christ then you must let them go.

With that said, why would anyone get married to someone that

1. does not go to church
2. does not show faith in Christ
3. does not pray.

Why anyone who does all those things cheat on someone?

The problem is that many people get married for the wrong reasons. They lack a true understand of love and they base everything on their emotions and the fantacy proliferated by the media.

You must first ask. "what are the qualities that Christ wants be to look for in a husband (or wife)?

Do not ask opra.

Peaople change about every 7-8 years anyway. Our interests change, our personality changes.

That is why it is so important to realize that when married we have the responsibility to always help the other person attain eternal life. It is a constant battle that must be won. All we need do is focus on the good qualities of our spouse.

Sadly a man can be doing all the outward appearance of Christianity and still end up being adulterous or abandon their responsiblities. The BTK killer is an example. According to all reports, outwardly he was following all the forms of religion. No one can get into another’s heart and tell for certain what is there. That is why I will encourage my girls to attend college. I will be very happy if they remain home with their kids as I have but they need to be prepared for the unexpected.

As far as watching Oprah, I do not like the show nor do I get advice from this woman.

 

[luvmykids]

JamesG:

ok first of all. please read it again. I said, “her emotions are strong”

I am saying that the negative aspects of feminism have corupted the definition and role of a man in our society. I am also saying that to a large extent women have a responsibility to be a nurturer toward their husband and their childern. A womans word can touch the heart of a man that loves her.

The worst thing a person can do is get married to someone that does not have faith in christ and expect them to stay with you.

The bible says that if you get married to someone that does not follow the teachings of christ then you must let them go.

With that said, why would anyone get married to someone that

1. does not go to church
2. does not show faith in Christ
3. does not pray.

Why anyone who does all those things cheat on someone?

The problem is that many people get married for the wrong reasons. They lack a true understand of love and they base everything on their emotions and the fantacy proliferated by the media.

You must first ask. "what are the qualities that Christ wants be to look for in a husband (or wife)?

Do not ask opra.

Peaople change about every 7-8 years anyway. Our interests change, our personality changes.

That is why it is so important to realize that when married we have the responsibility to always help the other person attain eternal life. It is a constant battle that must be won. All we need do is focus on the good qualities of our spouse.

This is not being said in a way that is meant to be an insult in any way, but I think you may be a little naive on that subject, because all three of those things were done by this man. He went to Church, claimed to have a strong faith, and prayed. Was secretly into porn and eventually cheated. I don’t think those things can ensure that you will be married forever, because we are humans and we all fall.

 

[vluvski]

Although I have eased up somewhat on my stance, I firmly believe that the vocation of most women lies in the home, raising the children and supporting her husband in his role as head of the house.

This is hard for me. I am a very capable, well-educated, strong-willed individual. I’m a control freak and I like things to be done my way. However, I know in my heart that my vocation lies in marriage as a wife and mother without the distraction of maintaining a career.

JPII’s teachings on women are pretty much the only thing of his that I find hard to swallow. Maybe I’ve heard it taken out of context too many times to truly understand his message, but I think it is a mistake to make women professionally equal to men.

What has happened is that so many women and families saw a second job as their ticket to a higher standard of living. After women’s “liberation,” we find ourselves having to work just to make ends meet. A woman should be able to choose whether or not she wants to work, not be forced into it financially. This is not liberation, this is being a slave to inflated living costs directly caused by a disproportionate number of two-income families.

The other effect this has had is higher unemployment. Jobs that were once occupied primarily by men are now showing favoritism toward women (since companies are forced to end the “underrepresentation” of women in higher level jobs). Of course unemployment will be higher when you have potentially twice the number of prospective employees.

This is something that will be very, very hard to undo!

 

[luvmykids]

vluvski:

Although I have eased up somewhat on my stance, I firmly believe that the vocation of most women lies in the home, raising the children and supporting her husband in his role as head of the house.

This is hard for me. I am a very capable, well-educated, strong-willed individual. I’m a control freak and I like things to be done my way. However, I know in my heart that my vocation lies in marriage as a wife and mother without the distraction of maintaining a career.

JPII’s teachings on women are pretty much the only thing of his that I find hard to swallow. Maybe I’ve heard it taken out of context too many times to truly understand his message, but I think it is a mistake to make women professionally equal to men.

What has happened is that so many women and families saw a second job as their ticket to a higher standard of living. After women’s “liberation,” we find ourselves having to work just to make ends meet. A woman should be able to choose whether or not she wants to work, not be forced into it financially. This is not liberation, this is being a slave to inflated living costs directly caused by a disproportionate number of two-income families.

The other effect this has had is higher unemployment. Jobs that were once occupied primarily by men are now showing favoritism toward women (since companies are forced to end the “underrepresentation” of women in higher level jobs). Of course unemployment will be higher when you have potentially twice the number of prospective employees.

This is something that will be very, very hard to undo!

I completely agree with everything you said and fully believe myself that a woman’s place is in the home, but it is hard for us to live this way now. I am blessed to be able to do it, but not everyone is, depending on their circumstance. And like you said, it will be hard to undo. The family dynamic in this society is completely messed up. Women aren’t being women and men aren’t being men. Thus the push now for same sex marriage. Men don’t need women and women don’t need men anymore. Or so they think.