The Pledge

[LtPaint]

I couldn’t think of anywhere else to put this beside secular news, so here it goes.

I was wondering if we are required, as Catholic, to stand up and say the Pledge.

I have issues with saying it and many things about this country have caused me to lose respect for it and I don’t see the point of standing up and saying it if there is no meaning for me.

[mod note: no news link is OK on this thread]

 

[gilliam]

I couldn’t think of anywhere else to put this beside secular news, so here it goes.

I was wondering if we are required, as Catholic, to stand up and say the Pledge.

I have issues with saying it and many things about this country have caused me to lose respect for it and I don’t see the point of standing up and saying it if there is no meaning for me.

No we are not required to recite the pledge. The only creeds a Catholic is require to recite are the Baptismal, Nicene and Apostles’ creeds.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Singing God Bless America bothers me. It seems to me that we need to work more on God Forgive America before we ask for blessings…

 

[dmelosi]

Singing God Bless America bothers me. It seems to me that we need to work more on God Forgive America before we ask for blessings…

I sure agree with this statement there are more and more politicians promoting abortion/murder and more and more Catholics thinking that is ok.

 

[gkroeger]

I sure agree with this statement there are more and more politicians promoting abortion/murder and more and more Catholics thinking that is ok.

This is certainly true in spades. If anyone wants more information on this issue and has not yet visited the topic “Conscience” Under Apologetics - Philosophy

Lots of good information on this subject.

 

[LtPaint]

I just feel that when I say the pledge, I’m making a vow to this country. If we could fix a lot of problems, I wouldn’t have any issues. I still don’t know how a nation that endroses the murders of millions of unbron children is “one nation under God.”

 

[gilliam]

I just feel that when I say the pledge, I’m making a vow to this country. If we could fix a lot of problems, I wouldn’t have any issues. I still don’t know how a nation that endroses the murders of millions of unbron children is “one nation under God.”

I look at it as making a vow to the country and the “republic on which it stands.” I am vowing to be the best and most informed citizen as I can be. I try to legally fix problems that are under my control and vote for responsible leaders who will fix those items that are not under my control. Today is the anniversary of the Emancipation Proclamation, that would not have occurred had not the right informed citizens voted for the right group of people at the right time. Each generation needs to renew the responsibilities the founding fathers gave us and not blindly vote party line or because someone looks better than someone else or just renounce their country because it isn’t doing something they want it to do.

There is a story, often told, that upon exiting the Constitutional Convention Benjamin Franklin was approached by a group of citizens asking what sort of government the delegates had created. His answer was: “A republic, if you can keep it.” *The brevity of that response should not cause us to under-value its essential meaning: democratic republics are not merely founded upon the consent of the people, they are also absolutely dependent upon the active and informed involvement of the people for their continued good health. *

 

[cmudd]

Doesn’t the Church call patriotism a virtue? Perhaps someone could help me with this. Because your country does things that are bad does not mean that you cannot take pride in your country of origin. The pledge seems to referance the very best things in this country. Stick to those items in the pledge and you should do alright. Also, you should know that the only institution on Earth that is without blame is the Catholic Church. If you are waiting for a country to be perfect before you pledge your allegiance to it, you will be waiting awhile.

GOD BLESS THE USA!!!

 

[marty30]

I couldn’t think of anywhere else to put this beside secular news, so here it goes.

I was wondering if we are required, as Catholic, to stand up and say the Pledge.

I have issues with saying it and many things about this country have caused me to lose respect for it and I don’t see the point of standing up and saying it if there is no meaning for me.

[mod note: no news link is OK on this thread]

I wonder if any of the protestant churches who broke off from the Church when there was a lot of coruption thought the same thing. I’m greatful for those who stuck it out. I mean I couldn’t imagine being a Catholic with a pope and bishop’s who were corrupt and did many things to harm the church and distorting Its truth.

I think it’s kind of the same thing in our country, if we just throw up our hands and let the devil win, well he will. But if we stand up as true American Catholics and defend our Church and our Country we will win this fight! Oh how the darkness before the litght seems so dark. We definitely need to get back to our roots, back to the basics you know. If it were that simple.

 

[gilliam]

Doesn’t the Church call patriotism a virtue? Perhaps someone could help me with this.

Patriotism is not intrinsically a virtue, however participative citizenship in accord with Catholic teaching is. The US foundational values that have shaped our nation’s history: “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," are in accord with Church teaching.

As the Catechism of the Catholic Church reminds us, “it is necessary that all participate, each according to his position and role, in promoting the common good. This obligation is inherent in the dignity of the human person. . . .As far as possible citizens should take an active part in public life” (nos. 1913-1915).

I would highly recommend reading:

Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship:
A Call to Political Responsibility from the Bishops of the United States

 

[LtPaint]

I wonder if any of the protestant churches who broke off from the Church when there was a lot of coruption thought the same thing. I’m greatful for those who stuck it out. I mean I couldn’t imagine being a Catholic with a pope and bishop’s who were corrupt and did many things to harm the church and distorting Its truth.

I think it’s kind of the same thing in our country, if we just throw up our hands and let the devil win, well he will. But if we stand up as true American Catholics and defend our Church and our Country we will win this fight! Oh how the darkness before the litght seems so dark. We definitely need to get back to our roots, back to the basics you know. If it were that simple.

I agree. I don’t think, though, that saying a pledge is in anyway helping us defeat the devil. I see people who are pro-abortion saying the pledge. Are they helping defeat the devil? Just because I don’t say the pledge does not mean I am not actively fighting the devil. I’m extremely outright about my Pro-life position and through rational and evidence shown several of my friends that abortion is morally wrong. Am I less patriotic because I don’t say a pledge that was taught to my peers and I in 1st grade? No.

 

[rlg94086]

I agree. I don’t think, though, that saying a pledge is in anyway helping us defeat the devil. I see people who are pro-abortion saying the pledge. Are they helping defeat the devil? Just because I don’t say the pledge does not mean I am not actively fighting the devil. I’m extremely outright about my Pro-life position and through rational and evidence shown several of my friends that abortion is morally wrong. Am I less patriotic because I don’t say a pledge that was taught to my peers and I in 1st grade? No.

I don’t think it has anything with defeating the devil. But, based on your original post…

I have issues with saying it and** many things about this country have caused me to lose respect for it and I don’t see the point of standing up and saying it **if there is no meaning for me.

…I would say you are less patriotic by definition. You’ve lost respect for the republic and don’t see any point in pledging allegiance to it.

If that is how you feel, it is okay. Consider yourself a “citizen of the world,” if that’s what you like. But, don’t call it patriotism.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Doesn’t the Church call patriotism a virtue? Perhaps someone could help me with this. Because your country does things that are bad does not mean that you cannot take pride in your country of origin. The pledge seems to referance the very best things in this country. Stick to those items in the pledge and you should do alright. Also, you should know that the only institution on Earth that is without blame is the Catholic Church. If you are waiting for a country to be perfect before you pledge your allegiance to it, you will be waiting awhile.

GOD BLESS THE USA!!!

The Baltimore Catechism listed Filial piety and Patriotism which dispose us to honor, love and respect our parents and our country under other moral virtues.

 

[marty30]

I agree. I don’t think, though, that saying a pledge is in anyway helping us defeat the devil. I see people who are pro-abortion saying the pledge. Are they helping defeat the devil? Just because I don’t say the pledge does not mean I am not actively fighting the devil. I’m extremely outright about my Pro-life position and through rational and evidence shown several of my friends that abortion is morally wrong. Am I less patriotic because I don’t say a pledge that was taught to my peers and I in 1st grade? No.

I didn’t mean just not saying the pledge, but giving up on America and defending its constitution that has been shaken and distorted by the devil aka secular media and radical anti God groups.

 

[RWMorris]

I was wondering if we are required, as Catholic, to stand up and say the Pledge.

“I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

I’m Catholic and I am proud to say it.

God Bless the USA!

"Urge all of your men to pray, not alone in church, but everywhere. Pray when driving. Pray when fighting. Pray alone. Pray with others. Pray by night and pray by day … Pray for the defeat of our wicked enemy whose banner is injustice and whose good is oppression. Pray for victory. Pray for our Army, and Pray for Peace. We must march together, all out for God.”

• George S. Patton Jr.

 

[a_priori]

Am I less patriotic because I don’t say a pledge that was taught to my peers and I in 1st grade? No.

“My country, right or wrong,” is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, “My mother, drunk or sober.” -G. K. Chesterton

 

[Pong]

For what it’s worth, I don’t recite the pledge or stand for the national anthem. I don’t think it makes me any less of a Catholic.

 

[marty30]

“I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

I’m Catholic and I am proud to say it.

God Bless the USA!

"Urge all of your men to pray, not alone in church, but everywhere. Pray when driving. Pray when fighting. Pray alone. Pray with others. Pray by night and pray by day … Pray for the defeat of our wicked enemy whose banner is injustice and whose good is oppression. Pray for victory. Pray for our Army, and Pray for Peace. We must march together, all out for God.”

• George S. Patton Jr.

:knight1:

 

[john1863]

…I would say you are less patriotic by definition. You’ve lost respect for the republic and don’t see any point in pledging allegiance to it.

No one saw any point in pledging to a secular symbol until the 1890s. Were our founding fathers deficient?.
Pledging or not has no connection with “patriotism.”

I pledge allegiance to my Flag,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.

1892 version, by a socialist, baptist minister.

John

 

[rlg94086]

No one saw any point in pledging to a secular symbol until the 1890s. Were our founding fathers deficient?.
Pledging or not has no connection with “patriotism.”

1892 version, by a socialist, baptist minister.

John

I didn’t say one has to recite the pledge to be a patriot. What I said is that someone who has “lost respect for the country” is, by definition, not a patriot.

And, by definition, I literally mean “definition:”
Websters:

patriot

One entry found.

Main Entry: pa·tri·ot webster.com/images/audio.gif Pronunciation: \ˈpā-trē-ət, -ˌät, chiefly British ˈpa-trē-ət\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle French patriote compatriot, from Late Latin patriota, from Greek patriōtēs, from patria lineage, from patr-, patēr father Date: 1605

: one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests

Again, one is free to do whatever they want, but they should use a different word than patriot. Perhaps, I am wrong about the OP, but it sounds like LtPaint does not support US authority. That’s fine, we all have the option to leave and find a country we can support and/or consider ourselves a “citizen of the world.”