The Pope SHOULD Apologize

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As for men, even a number of those in Egypt that claim to be against terrorists, and be friends to Coptic Christians, all strongly believe that the kidnappings of Chrisyian girls to provide muslims with wives are justifiable. I was horrified when every single “moderate” forum member on a thread chimed in that they are doing Christian women a favor, saving them from the oppression of husbands in a Religion that doesn’t like divorce. In one instance, they mentioned gleefully kidnapping a Coptic Priest’s wife, then annulling her marriage to her husband, and saying that she would have been with a man all her life who wasn’t a muslim. Then one added that they do the same in Georgia as well.

The islamic women in Egypt dress immodestly by comparison to the Copts they call sluts, but they compliment their immodest tops with silly towels around their heads, as if hiding their ears, while having poorly hid breasts is better than the slutty act of hair visible on a woman modestly attired!

The comments the Pope made about the words of a Byzantine emperor about the violent spread of islam was apt. That emperor, Manuel, had been dealing with a raving sultan who frothed at the mouth to think anyone still lived free of islam! the sultan (or the satan) had already kidnapped the emperor, and forced him to destroy his own final fortress outside of Constantinople. Later, after the emperor escaped, the same sultan invited him and other Christian leaders to a conference, where he surprised them and was about to kill them all! Though that was prevented, all the officials with the emperor were blinded for life, which the sultan had earlier threatened to do to the emperor if he didn’t tear down the defenses at Constantinople. The mistake of allowing muslims to live in the Capital proved fateful later, when a door was left open from within, by which thing the city was finally taken.

The last emperor, whom the sultan dealt with unmercifully and cruelly, was the son of the aforesaid emperor whose words the Pope quoted. When they took the city, they smashed into the Hagia Sophia, killed the elderly and infants in that place, and raped the women and girls, just as muhammad himself had done to females in many situations.

In the hadiths, he is oft represented as riding alongside some follower, having crude sex discussions. Once a man mentioned getting married. He asked whether or not she were a virgin (a young girl). The man answered that he had chosen to marry a widow. the false prophet told him that he should rather have married a virgin, and (remembering when he married the little girl `Ayisha) said that virgins are good for games of grabbing.

It is well attested in the hadiths by many lines of recollection that when he had taken a place, he and his men were actively sorting through their sex objects, and that while the men were busy forcing themselves into crying survivors of murdered familes, the men suddenly wondered whether muhammad would have them impregnate these poor victims, or practice birth control. his answer merely was about birth control, and left those poor women and girls to further endure rape.

the quran mentions, beyond the limit of “wives”, endless women under a muslim’s right hand. There is no set limit on them in the quran, and they were the automatic sex captives from each and every new conquest. though a man owed them none of the wives’ “benefits”, he could have more sex with them than with his wives if he chose. muhammad took full advantage of them in addition to his wives.

the pervert that allowed him to take his little girl, in a veiled threat, was the first of four califs.
Yes, Mohammed fought wars, but most people fail to realize he was an extremely merciful war leader. Most people of the day would have just gone into a city and killed every thing in it. Mohammed deplored that, he only defeated his enemies, he did not slaughter them or destroy them completely.
he, like all actual muslims, saw value in using women for sexual enjoyment, which the dead were spared, and in them and children, they saw added numbers to their snowballing community. That was their only reason for sparing some. they had a well orchestrated war plan - otherwise, what were Arabs doing in Spain so soon after the infidel’s death (or for that matter, ever at all?), and how could they take over the Persian empire Rome had never defeated?!
 
Now, I find it strange that the Pope would talk about holy wars in relations to the Muslims and this quote from a 14th century emperor but make NO MENTION of the Crusades by the Church. If he is saying that war in the name fo faith is completely unnaceptable (and therefore we should not try to justify the Crusades) then he should have condemned the Church’s actions in the Crusades as well as those of the Muslims in his lecture. The fact that he did not and did not say that both sides were wrong, is completely hypocritical of the Pope to me.
I find it hard to believe that you don’t realize that only too little too late was attempted in the Crusades! The jihads occassioned them! If a man tries to rape another’s wife, the husband is not in the wrong for taking that culprit down and out. If a man takes a class room hostage, are you going to look at the task force and say, “Now, now!”

Anyways, there were initially two groups, one that answered the Pope’s appeal for the Crusade, and another that rallied after the first group set out, taking advantage of the vacuum left by the noble knights, and it was these latter riffraff that Catholic and Jew alike described as killing Jews and Eastern European Christians, but either dying or being enslaved while still at it. Don’t sully the one group by the other’s wickedness, which never engaged islam in battle.
It should also be mentioned that his lecture cannot be declared infallible (if it can than its ridiculous that the Holy Father can have infallibility in declaring what another faith believes). I’ve seen some of you folks on this board calling the Muslims evil and a false religion. I’ve seen some fo you people say the Muslims cause all the problems in the world with the bombings and the violence. I have many muslim friends and they and I would say those extremists are NOT MUSLIMS AT ALL. They are radicals and are NOT good muslims. If Christians were to do the things the extremists did, would we consider them to be Christians still if they persisted? NO.
Your friends are ignorant, as a radical departure from mohammadanism would mean being peaceful. Our proto-ecclessiasts have no record of violence whatsoever! the mastermind - and only mind (though a closed mind) - behind islam was nothing but a violent, disgusting individual.

Christianity erased none of the more than a dozen nations of Asia Minor that are all eradicated and replaced by Turkey, an almost 100% islam dominated state. No woman on earth was safe at the height of islam’s power: even Irish and English families were taken from Ireland and dispersed around the world by muslims. Even French nuns wound up sex toys in the sultan’s harem, in which were women of every nation of the old world!

Even Japan was twice attacked by muslims, though the samurais were at their height in those days! Even then, explosives were involved!

If so many muslims were not supporters of evil, the threat of a few could have and would have been drowned a long time ago.
 
I’ve seen some of you people defend the Pope just because he’s the Pope. He’s human and can sin and make a mistake. We should defend the Pope because he’s right, not try to find every which way to justify what he says just because he’s the Pope. He’s not infallible when it comes to what ever other religions believe, he’s only infallible when it comes to the teachings about our own Church. To that end, the Pope has made a mistake.

I find it insulting and astonishing that the Holy Father has not apologized in person to the Muslim community but rather he came short of apologizing for his words and only did this through a Vatican official. The Muslim community told him they would accept nothing less than a personal apology. And yet the Vatican goes and does the one thing the Muslim community will not accept. Were they not listening?

Now I say the Pope was wrong. You folks will probably say he’s right. Either way, whether he’s right or wrong, IT DOESN’T MATTER. He should still apologize even if it turns out he’s right. I’ll explain it with an example.
Even the “nice muslims” chime in that every one but muslims are wrong. They it is that must ask all the world’s forgiveness! Not only Christians and Jews, but Zoroastrians, the Magi (while they endured), a religious community called the “Sabeans”, the Buddhists, the Hindus, the Sikhs, and others, all tell the same horror stories of every islamic community on earth. muslim groups even describe each other in the same manner! And the Scriptures foretell of this antichristian beast, islamic society, and of the little horn (qeren, in the Aramaic of Daniel), and of the evil ruler who meditates on hadiths (the official name only of one sect’s traditions), and who would be a false prophet, whose thoughts (in the quran) he would alone call god, forbidding all else called “god”, both GOD and idols, overcoming the Saints in war, oppressing them a long time, while a voice even asked in Heaven, “How long?”, and then having in that time four successors, causing Churches to become abominated and desolate, the Daily Mass being prevented in those places (The Church of St. Maria in Jerusalem, on the Temple Mount, and the Hagia Sophia, the world’s biggest Cathedral until St. Peter’s was completed), etc.
My Mother and I fight a lot. Now I’ll say things to her face that aren’t very nice about her but they are true. They get her very hurt and offended. Eventually I suck things up and apologize for my words because I want to heal relations with my mother, no matter if I’m right or wrong.
All the world can’t afford to do this with islam anymore. They have always been the only ones respected, and have righted no wrong ever.

Should GOD also cater to satan at the final Judgement? Should the rapist again get to command the school girl he has hurt? Should the dead Jewish tribe muhammad killed stand up on the Last Day and applaud him who killed them then slept with a hurting survivor the night after killing her husband, sons, brothers, and father? They expect us to give Spain back to them! Let them get off of the Temple Mount they never cared for, nor saw in all ancient history! Let the Arabs let the Palestinians establish a non-Arabic community! If one is an Arab, he is neither Canaanite nor a Philistine! muhammad never set foot in the dome of the rock! Let the Turks give back the Hagia Sophia, and promote the rehabilitation of Asia Minor’s many nations that flourished in the Byzantine empire! Let the Arabs allow the Phoenicians of Lebanon, the Copts of Egypt, the Aramaic of Syria, and the Berbers of Morocco to govern themselves. Let them allow religious freedom in Turkey and the actual Arabic countries! Let there be a Cathedral in Mecca! Let the only true Mesopotamians - the Christian Chaldeans and Assyrians - govern themselves in the country that is theirs alone, and never again have to be slighted the vote!

America is foolish to give them property or allow a single mosque to go up! If islam is so great, from whom are muslims fleeing? Or else, they are not really fleeing at all, but infiltrating, forcing us to be swelled with their numbers, forcing their satanism into our culture, while giving no place to any culture but their own where they are already in power!
 
This is what the Holy Father should do, even if he’s right. He should just personally apologize if he wants to help heal the rift he’s just opened up.

However, despite all of this, I applaud the Pope for wanting to open up dialogue between the Church and Muslims concerning jihad as holy war. But if the Pope has misunderstood Islam and its concepts, I agree with the Muslim leaders that he should educate himself on the matter. Either way, I know that God will forgive him IF he has sinned. And I pray that he will do the right things and apologize personally to the Muslim community.

Thank you all for listening to what I’ve had to say. God Bless.

-Mike
You are falling in with all the grovelers to the beast. All the world is against the Church, but follows the beast, even while thinking to remain “independant” of it.
 
Well its been months since i made the original post.

Oliviad- how dare you call Islam satanic and do not say there are satanic elements in all religions.

in retrospect- should the pope have apologized for what he said? Looking back on it, i think he did the best he could however i feel he could have worded his speech better. it did make it seem that they were his opinions (which they werent). apologize for what he said and admit he made a mistake? no. apologize for offending people and admitting he could have worded the lecture better? yes, which he did to the best of his ability.

as for islam

im ashamed how stupid and infantile some of your understanding of islam is and some of of you make it seem the point of islam is to eradicate everything. youre as bad as fundamentalist chrisitans who do this and take the bible out of its historical context. has vatican 2 and the catechism taught you nothing? you must view the koran in its context as you would the bible.

im taking a course on the three big islamic empries now and yes interpetated literally and fundamentally islam is not a peaceful religion.

but neither is judaism or christianity if done in the same way.

i see no difference between a literal reading of the OT and the Koran. god is portrayed in much the same way: violent, genocidal and a monster by moral standards. but much like the hebrews, muslims didnt have a problem killing heathens because they thought it was right. neither did the christian crusaders.

my point is, you cant do a fundamentalist/lieralist reading of the koran, nor can you of the bible. im sure if the ancient hebrews were around today theyd have no problem killing all christians in the name of yahweh because we commit a suppsoed blasphemy (remember, the trinity is seen as polytheism by a lot of jews)

this obviously leads to a problem: satan, if you want to at all drag it into this, has been poisoning religion with violent edicts and rules since the dawn fo time. every relgiion has their bad parts, their morally appalling parts, and it arises due to environment and people’s understanding. both judaism and islam arose out of harsh environment, steeped in a life where violence was the norm, where you worked hard, life sucked and then you died. it was a harsh world im not surprised their environment had an effect on how they understood god and its message at the time.

but as catholics, the church has grown in its understanding. it has in a sense “evovled” thanks to the holy spirit. we no longer take a literal reading of say God saying blessed is the man who bashes the baby’s head against the stone ( Psalm 137:7-9). rather we understand historically how this was used to justify violence against the Babylonians. or how about when God says rip the fetuses out of the mothers wombs in battle (Hosea 13:16). once again, a rleigious condonement for infanticide in battle (much like how Joshua understood it as a command from God to kill everything in jericho, this would have included innocent children (Joshua 6:16-21) or God’s curses in dueteronomy where he says that the hebrews will be forced to eat their own children if they disobey him or how their midwives will be forced to eat the placentas of their children (Deut. 28:53-57)).

Our Bible is just as bad as the Koran if you really want to get into it,

But Catholics understand that the Word of God is not the words in the Bible but how you interpret them (how they are understood, what the message is). the pope in his lecture (i really do wish he had worded things better and am glad he made a couple of clarifications) said faith and reason and violence do not go together. we should support these muslims who look to a peaceful understanding of their scriptures and to move beyond the original, literalist violent understanding. the original understanding may not have been how God intended for it to be. things do, after all, get lost in translation and especially in interpretation.

if you want to get down to it, the lie of “satanism” can be found in every fundamentalist reading of religious texts.

are the muslims trying to kill us all or have us all converted? some of them. is this the majority? no, but it is growing at a disturbing rate and we should ban together with the progressive muslims to fight this. does islam promote violence? depends how you interperate it.

have i changed my opinion? most definitely.

-Mike
 

Because of declining levels of respect and charity in recent posts, this thread is now closed.
 
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