The Pope Visits Morocco

[Salibi]

Bobby, make haste to carry this information to the Vatican. It seems they’ve overlooked some important Biblical verses when writing the catechism. It must have been their subjective, biased view in favour of Muslims.

Might you also take the OP with you, so he can have himself installed as Pope? He does seem to know better than the current one.

 

[Salibi]

What the Pope does is none of my concern. He doesn’t want to kneel? His choice.

What is more concerning is the pride, vanity, and disparaging attitudes of certain Roman Catholics towards the Holy Father.

 

[Erundil]

I also support what St. Thomas Aquinas said and @Bobby87 quoted.

There’s a really big problem for those of Christians who thinks that Allah and Muslim Faith is the same as Faith in Lord Jesus Christ. Muslims deny the divinity of Jesus, also there’s no indication of Him being crucified to death and then His Resurrection – they simply speak of Jesus’ alleged “trickery” (he escaped from death).

Many Christians believe that because Quran and other Muslim lectures speaks of the Jesus and the same Prophets as in the Bible, that’s supposed to mean we believe in the same God. There is nothing more deceptive! I have the question then: If someone denies deity of Christ, then how we should call him?

 

[Salibi]

Bobby, my friend, I quite understand that some of my Roman Catholic brethren are upset about whatever it is the Pope has changed in the Roman Rite, but don’t forget that we are called to be obedient to the Pontiff, and to the Church. Please consider that the Holy Father (and the couple of Popes preceding him) know more about what the Church needs than you’d give them credit for. Disobedience to the Pontiff and the Church is Protestantism. It is sad that some Catholics partake so freely of it, let us not forget that some branches of Lutheranism and Anglo-Catholicism very much look Catholic, but they are not true Catholics, since they protested against the Pope.

A priest I know always used to say, “ Heresies are repetitive. Satan has no imagination. It’s always the same thing: Disobedience to the Pontiff and the Church, and people who think they know better than the Pope. Take care you do not become these people.”

Let us be as Mary was when the angel appeared to her during the Annunciation. She did not know what it was that God intended for her yet she still said, “Let it be done unto me according to God’s will. “
We do not know what God intends for the Church, but let us emulate Mary and humbly be obedient to the succesor of St Peter, Pope Francis, the Vicar of Christ on earth

And on a more earthly note, it seems to me that some posters on this thread are ignoring the Catechism and rather stating their own opinions. This is a kind reminder that the Church is not a democracy, your opinions carry as much weight here as a liberal’s protests in the Soviet Union.

Christ’s peace, guys, and do let us stop pretending we are our own Popes. That’s Protestantism.

 

[Salibi]

The Catechism states that Allah is God. Rome has spoken, the matter is finished.

Let’s examine a really funny thing now, shall we?
The Protestants believed that by defying the Pope, they were being obedient to the Church. Here we see that claims of people defying the Pope in order to keep faithful to the Church are not as “Catholic “ as they may seem, no?

Luther believed that the church he founded was a continuation of the Apostolic Catholic Church. Other Reformers believed the same thing. In their eyes, by defying the Pope they were not committing the sin of disobedience, but rather returning the Church to tradition.

Let’s move forward to the 21rst century. Vatican 2. Changes in the Mass. Same thing: People disobeying the Pope for the sake of tradition. Jesus said something about ignoring the law to hold fast to tradition, no?

I hate to break it to you, but disobedience is a sin in the Catholic Church. I don’t know what Church you follow, but in Jesus’ Church, we do not disagree with Rome.

Also, I think that it’s traditional to be obedient to Rome, don’t you think so? Catholics claiming to be “fanatically’ traditional better then be heads over heels over what Rome is saying, which is that Allah is God. Otherwise, and I hate to break it to you, you’re not traditional Catholics, you’re Protestants with Eucharist.

 

[Salibi]

I am not interested in pursuing this discussion further. I am obedient to my Patriarch, who, as an Arabic-speaking Maronite, prays to Allah, and to the Pope, who said that Allah is God, something all Arab Christians know.

 

[Salibi]

I’m afraid, Bobby, as much as i respect you personally as a brother in Christ, that I’m going to defer to my Patriarch on the matter of who Allah is, not to you. And I trust that the Pope has read St Thomas Aquinas, and understands it much better than you do. This is a facet of obedience, no? The trust that even if we do not know exactly what is happening, we know and believe that the Holy Father is guided by the Spirit.

 

[Erundil]

Jews don’t worship Holy Trinity – ergo, they don’t even worship even the God that they were worshipping in the first place. They are in error. Unless we’re talking about Messianic Jews, then they’re like us, Christians (they recognise Jesus as Messiah).

Again, @Bobby87 great quotes!

 

[Erundil]

Dear Salibi,
I.m a Roman Catholic – you could check it in my profile. Allah is not God, cause you cannot say that Jesus is his son! You would be killed for that in Islamic Countries! If Jesus is not his Son, then Allah is not Our Father from Heaven. It’s actually quite simple.

Beside that, the it’s not the official teaching of Catholic Church, its something that Pope said in Morocco, lol.

God bless you, Salibi!

 

[Salibi]

Erundil, kind regards to my Roman brother in Christ.
It’s a fact that God exists in Trinity. This is unchangeable, no matter what one may believe. What we mean is that even if a person, a Muslim or a Jew, does not believe in the Trinity, it’s still God- albeit with a faulty understanding of who He is, on the part of the worshipper.
I understand your position perfectly, but I’m afraid I don’t know the theological terms in English to explain it in a way that might be understandable. I don’t speak English natively, you see. I hope someone comes along who can expound on this matter better.

Christ’s peace

 

[Rob2]

. It seems that the present Pontiff has no problem in bowing down before Mohammedans, but he seems to find it difficult to kneel before the blessed Sacrament for some strange reason.

What a repulsive comment to make @Bobby87 !!!

Are you ignorant of the long-standing pain the Holy Father suffers from in his knee ?

Pope Francis and Overcoming Sciatica and Knee Pain

The key to overcoming chronic knee pain and sciatica is to find the underlying cause of the pain (posture imbalances) and not just treat the symptom.

www.oregonexercisetherapy.com

https://www.charlesjgruichmd.com/blog/observing-pope-francis

https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2017/08/11/report-pope-francis-getting-massages-injections-sciatica/

https://www.spineuniverse.com/conditions/sciatica/how-pope-francis-manages-his-sciatica-pain

 

[Odilon]

I think the only way people who are not Christians have salvation is because they live a Christ-like life, so yes, God indeed wants everyone to have salvation. This belief of mine however is different that the difference between the God that the Christian believes in and the Allah that the Muslim believes in.

 

[Odilon]

How can you say they lack the fullness of truth available to Catholics and then say that they don’t worship another God? This here is the bottom line, do they (the Muslims) worship Jesus Christ as God (the God whom we worship).? A simple yes or no will suffice.

 

[Vico]

I am familiar with that passage from the Catechism, I just find it very hard to accept such a teaching considering what the Koran actually teaches. It does not teach the same thing about our respective deities. We believe that Jesus Christ is God come to earth, the Muslims don’t - it’s that simple.

Catechism

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332

332 LG 16; cf. NA 2; EN 53.

 

[Salibi]

I’ve always been told that Muhammad’s uncle was a Nestorian or Arian monk, and provided him with a deficient understanding of the Trinity as well as poisoning him against Christians who believe in the divinity of Christ. I think it makes sense since many Arians and Nestorians fled to Arabia after being persecuted and many even converted to Islam after it arose. The Byzantines, too, when faced by the Muslim hordes coming out of Arabia, dismissed them as nothing more than Arians.

 

[Niblo]

These are the principal Catholic dogmas that I, as a Muslim, can (and do) accept:

That there is only One God, our Creator and Lord; who can be known with certainty, by the natural light of reason from created things; who is absolutely perfect; who is actually infinite in every perfection; who is absolutely simple; who is the True God, possessing an infinite power of cognition; who is absolute Veracity; who is absolutely faithful; who is absolute ontological Goodness in Himself and in relation to others; who is absolute Moral Goodness or Holiness; who is absolute Benignity; who is absolutely immutable; who is eternal and everywhere present in created space; whose knowledge is infinite.

That the Divine Attributes are really identical among themselves and with the Divine Essence; that Allāh (subḥānahu ūta’āla) is almighty; is the Lord of the heavens and of the earth; is infinitely just and infinitely merciful.

That all that exists outside the Exalted was, in its whole substance, produced out of nothing by Him; that He was moved by His Goodness to create the world; and this this was done for His glorification; that He has created a good world; a world that has a beginning in time; that He created all things, and holds all these things in existence.

That through His providence He protects and guides all that He has created; that He created the first man (and woman); that every human being possesses an individual soul; and that the Exalted has conferred on humankind a supernatural Destiny.

That sanctifying grace makes one holy; that such grace can be increased by good works; and may be lost, and is lost, by every grievous (mortal, serious) sin.

That by their good works the justified really do acquire a claim to supernatural reward from their Lord; that the bliss of heaven lasts for all eternity; and that the souls of those who die in the condition of personal grievous sin enter Hell.

That all the dead will rise again on the last day with their bodies; and that they will be judged

 

[Salibi]

Hey Niblo, thanks for this.
Not related to the thread topic, but I’m actually curious about your transliterations of the Arabic words and was wondering whether you can pronounce the letters which are not present in English properly?

It’s cool if a non-Arab could.

 

[Niblo]

Hey Niblo, thanks for this.
Not related to the thread topic, but I’m actually curious about your transliterations of the Arabic words and was wondering whether you can pronounce the letters which are not present in English properly?

It’s cool if a non-Arab could.

Hi.

Thank you for your interest.

Subḥānahu ūta’āla (Arabic: سبحانه و تعالى) can be translated as: ‘Glorified and Exalted be He’; or ‘May He be Glorified’.

And yes, I can pronounce them correctly…but with a Welsh accent!

 

[Salibi]

I’d also like to add to your previous post that many Muslims also venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary.Mary is the only woman to be mentioned by name in the Qu’ran, and Islam affirms the virgin birth. I’m always surprised by the number of hijabis whenever I make a pilgrimage to Our Lady of Lebanon shrine. Also, many of my Muslim coworkers and friends frequent Saint Charbel’s shrine in Aanaya, and ask me to fetch them holy water and oil whenever they themselves are unable to go.

With respect to you, and with no intention to offend, I still think however that Islam is wrong about many things-Allah being NOT one of them. I’ve no problem with living in peace, side by side, with Muslims, but some of their more dogmatic claims I find nonsensical and infuriating, such as when the more fervent of them assert that Jesus was a Muslim. If you hold this view or are familiar with it, can you explain why some Muslims hold it? It’s obvious that Jesus did not adhere to the precepts of Islam.

P.S. If your Arabic is really good, I’d like to suggest you peruse Al- Mutanabi (المتنبّي)’s poetry. He’s a pre-Islamic Arab poet whose poems I enjoy on occasion.

 

[Niblo]

I’d also like to add to your previous post that many Muslims also venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary.Mary is the only woman to be mentioned by name in the Qu’ran, and Islam affirms the virgin birth. I’m always surprised by the number of hijabis whenever I make a pilgrimage to Our Lady of Lebanon shrine. Also, many of my Muslim coworkers and friends frequent Saint Charbel’s shrine in Aanaya, and ask me to fetch them holy water and oil whenever they themselves are unable to go.

With respect to you, and with no intention to offend, I still think however that Islam is wrong about many things-Allah being NOT one of them. I’ve no problem with living in peace, side by side, with Muslims, but some of their more dogmatic claims I find nonsensical and infuriating, such as when the more fervent of them assert that Jesus was a Muslim. If you hold this view or are familiar with it, can you explain why some Muslims hold it? It’s obvious that Jesus did not adhere to the precepts of Islam.

P.S. If your Arabic is really good, I’d like to suggest you peruse Al- Mutanabi (المتنبّي)’s poetry. He’s a pre-Islamic Arab poet whose poems I enjoy on occasion.

Hello again.

Our Lady of Saydnaya is a convent in Syria. For hundreds of years Christian and Muslim pilgrims (especially women who wish to become mothers) have journeyed there to pray before an Icon of the Virgin, and to receive her blessing.

I do not expect you to think that Islam is right; after all, you are not a Muslim! No offence taken.

As for you being infuriated by certain remarks (claims) made by Muslims. Be cool, and remember this:

‘And when Jesus sensed disbelief in them, he said, “Who are my helpers unto God?” The apostles said, “We are God’s helpers. We believe in God; bear witness that we are submitters.’ (Al‘Imran: 52).

The words ‘submitters’ renders the Arabic ‘muslimūn’; and, as such, describes all those who submit to the Exalted’s will, regardless of their chosen religion.

You will know that there are no capitals in Arabic, and so those who render ‘muslimūn’ as ‘Muslims’ (meaning followers of Islam) are in error.

Notice my sentence: ‘I do not expect you to think that Islam is right; after all, you are not a Muslim!

Most certainly, you are not a Muslim in the sense that I am; but I very much hope that you are a ‘muslim’, in that you convert into deeds the words ‘Thy will be done!’

PS: My Arabic is sufficient for my needs; but Al-Mutanabi would be beyond me. However, I shall see what I can find, in šāʾ Allāh. Many thanks for your suggestion.