The Pope's Pastoral Letter to the Catholics of Ireland

[st_julie]

I would have preferred something like:

“We were wrong.”

“These are the people responsible”

“This is what we are doing to these people”

“These are the steps we are taking to make sure it doesn’t happen again.”

///////“As Pope, I am personally responsible for what happened, this is my failure as a leader, I am stepping down so that another more competent person can take over the papacy and see this Church through the twenty first century.”/////////

something like that…you know…an actually letter of accountability instead of a cop-out followed by what basically amounts to “pretend this didn’t happen and move on”…

How on earth is Pope Benidict personallly responsible fo the sins of each and every Catholic and so called catholic. The accusations against him personally just begger the imagination with blatant injustice.
He does not now nor did he ever have preternatural gifts that allows him to know everything and everyone in these situations.
Physical abuse “spare the rod” was very common up until recently Nowhere was exempt from using stong punishment. The words sexual abuse have come to mean anything ones imagination can give it. Seems clear though that a lot of predatory gay men became priests and these homosexuals are the only men people can viciously attack in the press.
It is people who sin not the Church.
The same justice applies to priests who commit criminal acts as does any other criminal. Its up to police and lawyers, not the pope, to try them.
The Pope is accountable for making sure that the faiithful and the faithless know what is a sin. He can not prevent anyone using their free will to choose to commit the sin.

 

[tweetymom]

I would have preferred something like:

“We were wrong.”

“These are the people responsible”

“This is what we are doing to these people”

“These are the steps we are taking to make sure it doesn’t happen again.”

“As Pope, I am personally responsible for what happened, this is my failure as a leader, I am stepping down so that another more competent person can take over the papacy and see this Church through the twenty first century.”

something like that…you know…an actually letter of accountability instead of a cop-out followed by what basically amounts to “pretend this didn’t happen and move on”…

HMMM I agree with you.

 

[bkovacs]

Nonsense. Celibacy has nothing at all to do with this.

Single men are not more likely to abuse than married men. In fact, married men are often guilty of the highest levels of abuse of their own children, and of their own extended family members. The Orthodox also have abuse, but their selection of seminarians is also quite different, and therein lies a clue to what is going on. Abuse in the public school system and in many other faith systems is much higher than in the RCC and those places all have married people working there.

Further, and be honest here, if you were the spiritual enemy of Christianity, would you attack the Orthodox Church and its Priesthood, or would you attack the One True Church (the RCC) and its Priesthood?

Well they are going after the largest denomination, the Catholic Church!. If the Orthodox Church was the largest denomination then they would go after them. Simple!.

 

[Soler]

"As Pope, I am personally responsible for what happened, this is my failure as a leader, I am stepping down so that another more competent person can take over the papacy and see this Church through the twenty first century.

He only became Pope in 2005, when all (or nearly all) of these things had stopped.

 

[Soler]

Well they are going after the largest denomination, the Catholic Church!. If the Orthodox Church was the largest denomination then they would go after them. Simple!.

I think by “spiritual enemy” he might mean the demons.

Even if he doesn’t, you can still look at it that way.

 

[asymmetricblog]

A very priestly letter, all gussied up in churchly incantations, oblique references, bland admonishments, calls to prayers and genuflections, but, in the end, not much in terms of substantive admissions or actual reforms.

The North American child sex abuse scandals, now the Irish, the German, this list grows as the unseemly by product of the 12th century legal proscription against marriage of priest now comes unravelled. Despite what twisted arguments the apologists try to level, bishops and priests in the early Christian Church were married and such is refernced in the Catholic bible as well as in the other versions.

Yes, we do live in an increasingly “secular” society and thank God for it. The ancient hold religion and mysticism once held has all but slipped away and a far more educated, rational people can look beyond the firghtening spector of offending a blessed priest and we can peek into his personal life and see the crimes he has committed.

That same priest, every priest who committs such cowardly crimes must be held to full account, and that includes any priest who in high office worked to hide, shuffle, delay and obfuscate the efforts of civil authorities to learn of and prosecute the offense.

Secular people in schools or wherever don’t abuse children or try to cover it up?

 

[tweetymom]

Secular people in schools or wherever don’t abuse children or try to cover it up?

Of course they do! How silly is that question?

 

[asymmetricblog]

I gathered from his post that religion invented child abuse and that secular society is getting rid of it.

 

[tweetymom]

I gathered from his post that religion invented child abuse and that secular society is getting rid of it.

Who’s post?

 

[NPC]

I didn’t give a personal response when I posted the link to the text of the letter earlier as I was still reading through it at the time.

Firstly, could I say that the issue of a link between celibacy and abuse has been covered in a number of other threads recently. I have made the point that celibacy is no more the cause of paedophilia than marriage is a guarantee against it - this is a fact. Paedophiles, as I have said many times are devious and deceptive - they will seek out situations where they will have the opportunity to be alone with children, and where the position is one of such trust that the person in question would be beyond suspicion. Priests did not become paedophiles - the opposite occurred: paedophiles were ordained as priests.

As to the letter itself - I think it is a positive step. Unfortunately, as lemonbeam posted earlier, some abuse victims have said that the letter does not go far enough. As I have always said when posting on the topic of victims of abuse, I don’t wish anything but justice and healing for them, but no letter would have gone far enough - it has been clear from the media reporting over the last week especially that victims had already made up their mind about the letter. They had passed judgement on it before they had even seen it and they certainly were not going to turn around and say something positive about it, although it clearly is positive in many ways.

I think we need to acknowledge that this letter is one step forward. There have been other steps taken by the Irish bishops in recent years including meeting with victims of abuse, implementing rigorous child-protection policies in their dioceses; last month’s meeting between the bishops and the Holy Father was another step in the process. People wanted the Pope to acknowledge the failures of Church authorities in dealing with abuse - he has clearly done so and has acknowledged the various reasons behind the failures (avoidance of scandal, poor formation in seminaries & novitiates, &c.). They wanted him to address the issue of Canon law versus Civil law - he has done so, saying that those who abused children must account for their actions before “properly constituted tribunals” and openly acknowledge guilt & submit to the demands of justice. Bishops and religious superiors are admonished to continue to cooperate with the civil authorities. Survivors of abuse had been asking for an apology - it is clear that the letter contains this, though, no doubt, this one counts for nothing. People were wondering about the possibility of the Pope meeting survivors - he has clearly stated that he is willing to do so (as he has done in the past). In addition to this, we should look positively on the fact that the Vatican is going to be looking closely into the affairs of Irish Dioceses when it begins its Visitation. The idea of a Mission for bishops, priests and religious is also a positive move - in fact, I think this will be a very exciting development when it comes to pass.

I think, from what I’m hearing and reading in the Irish media every day, nothing will ever go quite far enough for victims. This is understandable in a sense given that the pain of abuse will stay with many of them forever, but on the other hand, we all need to try and move on - some victims have said as much. Eventually I think they’ll have to say “the Church and the Pope are not going to give me what I want/need, they are not helping me to heal, so I have to let go and get on with my life”, or they have to accept that there are those in the Church who care for their welfare and who want to take steps to bring about healing for them and that they must work constructively with Church authorities for this to happen…

It seems to me that we have to entertain the possibility - for me it’s a reality - that the Pope has actually written a sincere letter, not just to survivors, but to me as an Irish Catholic. I don’t think it’s so hard to believe that the Pope actually meant it when he said “sorry”.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Please remain on the thread topic and cease from the personal remarks.

 

[ConfusedTim]

I find it interesting that the lead the victims group who have spoken out that the letter does not go far enough is called One in Four. When you look at this organisation’s website it states that it is so named because it reckons that 25% of children are sexually abused (in society in general, not by Catholic priests)

So the child abuse problem is massive and pervaded every sphere of life. The catholic church has made moves to end it, (probably not far enough) but we should also ask what moves are being made elsewhere in society and what ivestigations are taking place so we get the full picture

 

[NPC]

I find it interesting that the lead the victims group who have spoken out that the letter does not go far enough is called One in Four. When you look at this organisation’s website it states that it is so named because it reckons that 25% of children are sexually abused (in society in general, not by Catholic priests)

When I mentioned in my previous post about certain groups having given their verdict on the Pope’s letter before it was even published, I was thinking especially of One in Four. The director of that organisation has, in my opinion, been playing the media very well - before the Irish bishops went to Rome last month, she and two survivors sent a letter to the Pope with what were termed at the time “demands”…i.e. “we want x,y &z”. After the bishops met with the Pope, the signatories of the letter were, needless to say, dissapointed. However what were “demands” before the meeting were now “requests” - a dramatic change in language: how very polite, mere requests…Some of them know very well what cards to play and when.

You might have heard that an Irish bishop - I think it was Bishop Leo O’Reilly - had a go at the media for focusing solely on the Church in relation to abuse. Now, don’t get me wrong, where there faults, they should be exposed, but I think he has a point. I have had first hand experience of some of the biased opinions and journalism amongst the media here in Ireland…it seems that anti-Catholicism is indeed the last acceptable prejudice. We need justice where crimes have been committed, but it is so plain to see that so many are just jumping on the bandwagon in any way they can - either to kick the Church while it’s down, or to make a scapegoat of it. There are many journalists out there who should be thanking their lucky stars that the Catholic Church isn’t in the business of taking libel actions…But the issue of sexual abuse in Ireland - and I’m sure elsewhere - goes far beyond the Church. We just don’t hear about it - even when there are court cases, it’s only the “big” ones which are covered by the media. If the Irish State were to compile a report on the cases of abuse in civil society, much as the Murphy Report did on the Church, we would be thoroughly sickened…again. We didn’t know the full horrors of sexual abuse by clergy and religious until the Ryan and Murphy reports - I don’t believe we comprehend the scale on which it’s going on in the wider society. In that sense it will be an injustice if we allow the focus on the Church to eclipse the bigger picture.

As to the letter - hopefully I’ll get some reaction after Mass in the morning. I’ll try to report back tomorrow afternoon!

 

[Zoe_Brain]

Man: All right, it’s a fair cop, but society’s to blame.
Church Policeman: Agreed.
— Monty Python’s Flying Circus, “Church Police”

Benedict laid out four reasons why abuse by priests had continued over the last four decades:

* a misplaced concern for the reputation of the church;
* inadequate procedures for choosing priests;
* insufficient training in seminaries;
* and a tendency to favor clergy.

However, the pope also blamed an increasing secularization of society for abuse by priests.

nbcmiami.com/news/breaking/Pope_to_sex_abuse_priests__Submit_to_justice-88719827.html

Monsignor Dooley says he would NOT report a paedophile and he has no moral obligation to do so.
bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode…ow_17_03_2010/

This in an interview with Monsignor Dooley on the Stephen Nolan show. It gets most interesting about 35 minutes in.

The monsignor has several scenarios put to him, and in all he states clearly and continuously he would NOT report a priest who admits he’s a paedophile, whether he admited to it inside or outside the confessional, even if said priest is currently actively abusing children.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=438881

No comment needed.

 

[agnostic_1]

this scandal reaches from pretty much every catholic country, every state, every church. in every case it goes up the ladder until it reaches leadership then you get a whole lot of “i didn’t know”.

where does the buck stop? can this really be a scandal that involved 10’s of thousands of victims, thousands of priests across 5 continents, and five decades and we are supposed to believe these are all isolated incidents and the leadership wasn’t actively involved in covering this up? do people actually believe this?

in all these thousands of cases we do not have ONE case of ANY bishop standing up and doing the right thing. Pretty amazing really, you would think even by chance someone in charge would’ve had their conscious peak and say “hey father McDougall has molested children at his two previous churches, he is now being accused again, if i move him 500 miles away he will molest another child, i have to stop this”… not one documented case of this happening. i bet in ANY other institution even the pronography industry this wouldn’t have happened, someone would’ve stepped up to do the right thing.

are we really supposed to believe that this is the church of god when every bishop is crooked?

i was raised catholic and left during the child sex scandal in the US, now this brings it ripe again to me.

and all we hear from catholics is this is some persecution of the church. HELLO!!! persecution can only happen if one is innocent. if they are guilty as sin it’s called justice not persecution. the media is persecuting the church by reporting on a massive cover up all the way to pope of the sexual assault of thousands of children over decades? yeah why would the media report on that,must be the devil…

if you really want to find the devil go look at your priests and bishops.

 

[ConfusedTim]

this scandal reaches from pretty much every catholic country, every state, every church. in every case it goes up the ladder until it reaches leadership then you get a whole lot of “i didn’t know”.

where does the buck stop? can this really be a scandal that involved 10’s of thousands of victims, thousands of priests across 5 continents, and five decades and we are supposed to believe these are all isolated incidents and the leadership wasn’t actively involved in covering this up? do people actually believe this?

in all these thousands of cases we do not have ONE case of ANY bishop standing up and doing the right thing. Pretty amazing really, you would think even by chance someone in charge would’ve had their conscious peak and say “hey father McDougall has molested children at his two previous churches, he is now being accused again, if i move him 500 miles away he will molest another child, i have to stop this”… not one documented case of this happening. i bet in ANY other institution even the pronography industry this wouldn’t have happened, someone would’ve stepped up to do the right thing.

are we really supposed to believe that this is the church of god when every bishop is crooked?

i was raised catholic and left during the child sex scandal in the US, now this brings it ripe again to me.

and all we hear from catholics is this is some persecution of the church. HELLO!!! persecution can only happen if one is innocent. if they are guilty as sin it’s called justice not persecution. the media is persecuting the church by reporting on a massive cover up all the way to pope of the sexual assault of thousands of children over decades? yeah why would the media report on that,must be the devil…

if you really want to find the devil go look at your priests and bishops.

If you think that EVERY bishop and priest in the Catholic church is crooked then you are a seriously troubled person and i might suggest that you take a few moments and pray for guidance on this issue.

 

[lemonbeam]

this scandal reaches from pretty much every catholic country, every state, every church. in every case it goes up the ladder until it reaches leadership then you get a whole lot of “i didn’t know”.

where does the buck stop? can this really be a scandal that involved 10’s of thousands of victims, thousands of priests across 5 continents, and five decades and we are supposed to believe these are all isolated incidents and the leadership wasn’t actively involved in covering this up? do people actually believe this?

in all these thousands of cases we do not have ONE case of ANY bishop standing up and doing the right thing. Pretty amazing really, you would think even by chance someone in charge would’ve had their conscious peak and say “hey father McDougall has molested children at his two previous churches, he is now being accused again, if i move him 500 miles away he will molest another child, i have to stop this”… not one documented case of this happening. i bet in ANY other institution even the pronography industry this wouldn’t have happened, someone would’ve stepped up to do the right thing.

are we really supposed to believe that this is the church of god when every bishop is crooked?

i was raised catholic and left during the child sex scandal in the US, now this brings it ripe again to me.

and all we hear from catholics is this is some persecution of the church. HELLO!!! persecution can only happen if one is innocent. if they are guilty as sin it’s called justice not persecution. the media is persecuting the church by reporting on a massive cover up all the way to pope of the sexual assault of thousands of children over decades? yeah why would the media report on that,must be the devil…

if you really want to find the devil go look at your priests and bishops.

The cases emerging recently all date back 20, 30 and even 50 years. This could never happen again. From my observations this whole cover up started, dating back, because the Priests and the Bishops wanted to show compassion and so they thought that the sex abusers needed therapy. There are new child protection systems in place in Churches now, that have been judged by outside experts to be working well.

 

[OriginalJS]

The hierarchy, including Pope Benedict XVI, has either failed to comprehend the magnitude of this catastrophe, or, has resolved to hunker down, weather the storm, and hope that with some rather mild assurances to the laity, the matter will gradually fade away. The latter seems more likely. A thorough purging of the miscreants who were in positions of authority to prevent widespread sexual abuse, but failed to do so, would decimate the ranks of church officialdom. Instead the device of moving offenders around continues. For example, Cardinal Law is now serving as head of St. Mary Major in Rome. All of this is old news for us in the United States; it is not old news in Europe where the issue is heating up.

I doubt if many will leave the Church. Historically, regardless of the sinfulness of the hierarchy, the faithful have remained. Alexander VI is a classic example of a dissolute Pope, yet in 1500 faithful by the thousands pilgrimaged to Rome.

Most Catholics I know feel connection with their local Church and priest - not with the universal church. Their participation is often highly social rather than religious.

 

[OriginalJS]

If you think that EVERY bishop and priest in the Catholic church is crooked then you are a seriously troubled person and i might suggest that you take a few moments and pray for guidance on this issue.

This is a valid point, but it ignores the problem that given the failure of Church authorities to effectively address misdeeds, the Catholic in the pew has no reasonable assurance of the moral rectitude of any priest or bishop. This is an unfortunate result of failure to address the issues - all come under a cloud of doubt and the moral authority of the church is reduced.

 

[John_of_Woking]

Please help provide some balance to the BBC debate which is very anti-Catholic bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/03/can_catholic_church_overcome_c.html?page=3#comments

I think it will be illegal to be catholic within 10 years here in England :sad_yes: