The Pope's Pastoral Letter to the Catholics of Ireland

[NPC]

Very true in less educated, more supersticious countries - i.e. Africa.

However, in more fully developed countries, those identifying themselves as Catholics (as well as other religious traditions) falls flat or is decreasing.

Religion tends to spread well in the third world.

God forbid that the Good Lord might be playing a part in drawing people to Himself through the Church. Or God forbid that there may be zealous missionaries in developing countries actually showing people the love of God and His saving power. Superstition is not good, that’s for sure. However, in our supposed “enlightened” state as people living in the developed world, we are very slow to entertain the possibility that it’s precisely because we have actually become closed-minded that we have left God by the wayside. Granted, there are “developed” countries which are losing Catholics, but I find it amazing even with this fact that last year over 150,000 converts were received into the Church at Easter in the U.S. - there will be a similar number this year. Japan is also seeing a huge increase in the number of Catechumens. In terms of vocations to the priesthood, there are a number of dioceses in the United States and elsewhere which simply can’t accommodate any more men in their seminaries. These are the dioceses which are known to be orthodox and faithful to the Church’s teachings - this ties in with my earlier point that our priests really need to get back to basics when preaching homilies.

 

[Agripa]

Or God forbid that there may be zealous missionaries in developing countries actually showing people the love of God and His saving power. Superstition is not good, that’s for sure. QUOTE]

While perhaps for another discussion thread, I find that “zealous missionaries” have much to account for: Coming into an indigenous population, destroying a native people’s faith traditions and replacing it with a different faith tradition is a human rights crime and simply a path to subjugation. But, alas, that is really off the subject!

 

[Soler]

While perhaps for another discussion thread, I find that “zealous missionaries” have much to account for: Coming into an indigenous population, destroying a native people’s faith traditions and replacing it with a different faith tradition is a human rights crime and simply a path to subjugation. But, alas, that is really off the subject!

That’s considered a “human rights crime”?! And I thought I wasn’t easily shocked…

 

[NPC]

But, alas, that is really off the subject!

Agreed - so I’ll say no more I fear this thread will be shut down if we don’t get back to the topic of the Pastoral Letter!!

 

[Agripa]

That’s considered a “human rights crime”?! And I thought I wasn’t easily shocked…

Except for the Romans who were somewhat broad minded about not imposing their mythologies on conquered populations as long as the conquered paid taxes and kept peaceful, most other cultures impose their religion on those they subjugated. Spain, Germany, The Dutch, England, etc. all imposed Christianity on those native populations they took over, all claiming they were civilizing the natives, bringing them the peace and joy of Jesus Christ, etc. What rot. People and traditional cultures should be left alone and respected. Not changed simply to make one culture’s take-over efforts all that more easier.

 

[AidanM32]

PRAYER FOR THE CHURCH IN IRELAND

God of our fathers,
renew us in the faith which is our life and salvation,
the hope which promises forgiveness and interior renewal,
the charity which purifies and opens our hearts
to love you, and in you, each of our brothers and sisters.
Lord Jesus Christ,
may the Church in Ireland renew her age-old commitment
to the education of our young people in the way of truth and goodness,
holiness and generous service to society.
Holy Spirit, comforter, advocate and guide,
inspire a new springtime of holiness and apostolic zeal
for the Church in Ireland.
May our sorrow and our tears,
our sincere effort to redress past wrongs,
and our firm purpose of amendment
bear an abundant harvest of grace
for the deepening of the faith
in our families, parishes, schools and communities,
for the for the spiritual progress of Irish society,
and the growth of charity, justice, joy and peace
within the whole human family.
To you, Triune God,
confident in the loving protection of Mary,
Queen of Ireland, our Mother,
and of Saint Patrick, Saint Brigid and all the saints,
do we entrust ourselves, our children,
and the needs of the Church in Ireland.
Amen.

 

[lemonbeam]

No, but Catholicism is certainly fading.

You are wrong. I recently posted statistics showing Vocations are growing Worldwide and so is membership. Catholicism is growing Worldwide, not declining.

 

[lemonbeam]

Very true in less educated, more supersticious countries - i.e. Africa.

However, in more fully developed countries, those identifying themselves as Catholics (as well as other religious traditions) falls flat or is decreasing.

Religion tends to spread well in the third world.

Thats uneducated right there. How can you look down at a people like that! Do you realize how insulting that is to African people? Superstition has nothing to with genuine religion.

Some of the places where Christianity is spreading the fastest, apart from Africa and the Americas are highly developed nations like China, Korea and Japan, India too.

There are estimates 500,000 people convert to Christianity every year in China.

 

[Agripa]

You are wrong. I recently posted statistics showing Vocations are growing Worldwide and so is membership. Catholicism is growing Worldwide, not declining.

But see

ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/top-five-%E2%80%98missing-mega-trends%E2%80%99-shaping-catholicism

where John L Allen Jr writing in the National Catholic Register: “I wrote last week that in some ways it represents the “chief ideological rival” of the Catholic church. Several readers took issue with that formula, some out of sensitivity to Muslims, but others because they believe there’s a greater ideological foe: Western secularism, especially in Europe. Many pointed to the “ecclesiastical winter” of contemporary Europe as a mega-trend. While sociologist Fr. Andrew Greeley has documented that “de-Christianization” has not gripped Europe uniformly, nevertheless the indicators in many places are striking. In France, only around eight percent of Catholics attend Mass at least once a week, and more than 50 percent say they never go to church at all. In the Netherlands, the proportion of the population with no religious affiliation has gone from 23 percent to 59 percent in a single generation, prompting Greeley to observe that “the Dutch may have become a pagan people almost overnight.””

 

[lemonbeam]

But see

ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/top-five-%E2%80%98missing-mega-trends%E2%80%99-shaping-catholicism

where John L Allen Jr writing in the National Catholic Register: “I wrote last week that in some ways it represents the “chief ideological rival” of the Catholic church. Several readers took issue with that formula, some out of sensitivity to Muslims, but others because they believe there’s a greater ideological foe: Western secularism, especially in Europe. Many pointed to the “ecclesiastical winter” of contemporary Europe as a mega-trend. While sociologist Fr. Andrew Greeley has documented that “de-Christianization” has not gripped Europe uniformly, nevertheless the indicators in many places are striking. In France, only around eight percent of Catholics attend Mass at least once a week, and more than 50 percent say they never go to church at all. In the Netherlands, the proportion of the population with no religious affiliation has gone from 23 percent to 59 percent in a single generation, prompting Greeley to observe that “the Dutch may have become a pagan people almost overnight.””

You are talking about Europe. I’m talking about the rest of the world. In every other continent of the world, there shows growth of Catholicism and Christianity. Africa, Asia, the Americas (North and South), and Oceania. Europe is in something of a demographic winter. In Europe, Christianity is growing very slightly or is at a standstill.

It varies in Europe. I heard a Priest called Father Barron say that although belief is high in Europe, Church attendance is another topic. Some countries have high church attendance, such as Poland and Ireland.

Statistics say 71.5 percent of the Polish population goes to church at least once a month. Ireland, nearly two-thirds of the population attend church at least once a week.

 

[miguel]

But the simple fact remains that the RC Church fosters a huge grouping of single, unmarried men as its leadership, its a petri dish for abberant behavior and in turn, that grouping poses the largest organized threat of pedophilia the world has ever known.

Moreover, the Church draws on a long, ancient history of all-male groupings where homosexuality and pedophilia were always a by-product. Roman gladiator legions, certain military traditions (Spartans) and certain teaching traditions of both Greek and Roman that fostered all male groupings and adult male and adolescent male parings.

We better keep an eye on all those baseball teams.

 

[miguel]

NPC;6429791:

I find that “zealous missionaries” have much to account for: Coming into an indigenous population, destroying a native people’s faith traditions and replacing it with a different faith tradition is a human rights crime and simply a path to subjugation. But, alas, that is really off the subject!

Mustn’t disturb the human sacrifices.

 

[miguel]

Except for the Romans who were somewhat broad minded about not imposing their mythologies on conquered populations as long as the conquered paid taxes and kept peaceful, most other cultures impose their religion on those they subjugated. Spain, Germany, The Dutch, England, etc. all imposed Christianity on those native populations they took over, all claiming they were civilizing the natives, bringing them the peace and joy of Jesus Christ, etc. What rot. People and traditional cultures should be left alone and respected. Not changed simply to make one culture’s take-over efforts all that more easier.

And enlightenment folks were guilty of no such thing…Robespiere, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Polpot. And even those Romans utterly destroyed a culture that sacrificed it’s children…some barbarities were just too much even for them.

 

[Agripa]

Agripa;6429846:

Mustn’t disturb the human sacrifices.

Many religions utilize human sacrifices. Even the very early Abramic Hebrews conducted human sacrifices and this was a point of contention until over time the Hebrews evolved to only sacrificing valued kosher animals as sacrifice. - the story of Abraham, whether you deem it a true story or an amalgam of a much wider story connotes the practice of human, first-born sacrifice. Its simply the notion of sacrificing your most loved and valued object - a first born son, being given up to the God-figure as an act of total self sacrifice.

Other stories in the bible relay this same theme - the warrior who swears to sacrifice the first creature he sees if only God helps him win a bloody battle. Upon his return home, its his eldest virgin daughter who runs to him and now he must kill her for his promise to God - and he does!

And lets not forget the greatest story of human sacrifice - Jesus Christ. Catholics even think they are still drinking his blood!

So despite your off hand comment about not disturbing the human sacrifices amoung other faiths, you ought to look at and consider the blood spilled in your own!

 

[Agripa]

We better keep an eye on all those baseball teams.

Most baseball players go home to extremely attractive wives or girlfriends. :coolinoff:

 

[miguel]

And lets not forget the greatest story of human sacrifice - Jesus Christ. Catholics even think they are still drinking his blood!

The Aztecs rejected the demands of a false god that demanded their blood in favor of the one true God who offers himself in sacrifice on our behalf.

 

[miguel]

Most baseball players go home to extremely attractive wives or girlfriends. :coolinoff:

All wives and girlfriends are extremely attractive.

 

[Agripa]

The Aztecs rejected the demands of a false god that demanded their blood in favor of the one true God who offers himself in sacrifice on our behalf.

The Aztecs rejected their belief system under threat of death by the Spanish Conquistadores. It was simple, really, you accepted Jesus or you died. That’s called being conquered, hence the term “conquistadores” :knight2:

 

[Agripa]

All wives and girlfriends are extremely attractive.

Subjectively, yes (and that response will gain you brownie points with the wife ), but objectively, male athletes tend to attract far more attractive women than the average “schmo” on the street. Its a biological phenomena that cannot be argued.

 

[miguel]

Subjectively, yes (and that response will gain you brownie points with the wife ), but objectively, male athletes tend to attract far more attractive women than the average “schmo” on the street. Its a biological phenomena that cannot be argued.

Are you sure it’s not also an economic phenomenon?