D
distracted
Guest
no reason? 45 million deaths and counting is not a good r eason???
we must follow God not man… and the pope is a man… I listen to waht he says… but he is a human… just like me
- Status
we must follow God not man… and the pope is a man… I listen to waht he says… but he is a human… just like me
D
distracted
Guest
thank you…
and every time a baby is murdered, we are saying Crucify Him… (the least of His brethren)…
M
mark_a
Guest
Surely you jest.
H
Havard
Guest
Bishop D’Arcy can, but right now Father Jenkins defending his obedience via technicality: the 2004 USCCB document only mentions honoring Catholics. We all know that it’s a really weak technicality, and doesn’t jive with the spirit of the document. I expect the USCCB to clarify the document in their meeting (this June?, I think?) so that this kind of thing will not happen again.
C
ChristIsLord
Guest
the church is abandoning the west, i think they look at the west as essentially lost to secularism and hopeless (in their opinion). so while obama talking at ND seems like a huge deal to you, to the church leadership they are more concerned with converts and a simpler people, for them that’s africa, india etc… these are the areas that will keep the catholic church around another 1,000 years not the west… in two more generations the church will essentially be a museum in the west.
M
Maurice_Mulliga
Guest
I don’t think it"s necessary for the Vatican to step in on this controversy as the Church has many challenges in the world today (eg. Ireland). Scandal isn’t new to the Church but today it is broadcasted very quickly. The Church has to be transparent: Don’t hide our sins. Jesus came to save sinners. Embrace the sinner and welcome them into our Church.
“…Not all aspects of the Church’s teaching over the centuries can be characterized as a wise unfolding of the implications of Jesus’ teaching…” (‘Jesus A Gospel Portrait’ Donald Senior) The Church went for Power and Prestige: “…before too long, it was hard to tell the difference between Pope and Caesar----neither of whom looked much like Jesus of Nazereth…”( ibib) We would be deluding ourselves if we say our Church truly reflects the teachings of her founder Jesus, the Son of Mary.
Many soldiers, who had spent time in Italy during the 2nd World war, were apalled at the obvious wealth of the Church and the poverty of the people. Whether the statement is right or wrong it is not a good look and it is the same today, the Vatican continues to attract the trappings of wealth and power.
Maybe it is time for the Church , the people of God, changed tact and move deeper into the storm of live and really walked in the footsteps of Jesus. Jesus was tempted in the desert by all the trappings of power; He chose to spread his Good News by walking and living with the outcastes of society at the time
“…the Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds…” (Matt.11:19)
The really important words are ‘wisdom’ and ‘deeds’. Is it wise for the Mother Chuch to remain elegantly positioned in Rome rather than move to one of our poorer nations? I wonder what would the consequences be if the Pope moved and lived in a tent in Ethiopia or a mud hut in Chile? I think the World would notice, but more importantly, the poor and people on the fringes of society will benefit by the Vicar of Christ in their country, not just for a visit but with sleeves rolled up ,washing their feet, serving the wretched and destitute. The marvellous work that Mother Teresa did in India would be dwarfed if a comparison were needed. The rebels in such countries would have no need to exist, as the Church would be there administering to the needy.
Dignitaries wishing to have an audience with the Pope would have to queue with every one else rich or poor, strong or weak, as all are children of God. This situation will cause many changes throughout Chistendom. Dioceses everywhere will look at their situation in the light of the Pope’s move. Bishops will have to be seen serving the poor in their own countries. The needs of the people will come first.
“…Ultimately, the efficiency of the Church’s structures and the style of it’s authority are quite secondary to its ability to discover and proclaim the risen Christ in its midst…”(Jesus A Gospel portrait)
It most likely was the guiding hand of the Holy Spirit that led Peter to Rome and the Christian message was able to spread quickly on the back of the Roman empire, today we don’t need a strong Church of Rome, we need a Strong Church. A vibrant living Body of Christ, serving the poor, spreading the Gospel and building up the Kingdom. No doubt there will be knockers, both lay and eclesiastical, who would demand a return to the Pomp and ceremony of Rome, but this won’t be another ‘Avignon’ the Pope escaping because of political intrigue, this will be a change to more fulfill the Gospel message in the Modern world where materialism and the denial of our Creator God is increasing daily.
God Bless Maurice Mulliga
“…Not all aspects of the Church’s teaching over the centuries can be characterized as a wise unfolding of the implications of Jesus’ teaching…” (‘Jesus A Gospel Portrait’ Donald Senior) The Church went for Power and Prestige: “…before too long, it was hard to tell the difference between Pope and Caesar----neither of whom looked much like Jesus of Nazereth…”( ibib) We would be deluding ourselves if we say our Church truly reflects the teachings of her founder Jesus, the Son of Mary.
Many soldiers, who had spent time in Italy during the 2nd World war, were apalled at the obvious wealth of the Church and the poverty of the people. Whether the statement is right or wrong it is not a good look and it is the same today, the Vatican continues to attract the trappings of wealth and power.
Maybe it is time for the Church , the people of God, changed tact and move deeper into the storm of live and really walked in the footsteps of Jesus. Jesus was tempted in the desert by all the trappings of power; He chose to spread his Good News by walking and living with the outcastes of society at the time
“…the Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds…” (Matt.11:19)
The really important words are ‘wisdom’ and ‘deeds’. Is it wise for the Mother Chuch to remain elegantly positioned in Rome rather than move to one of our poorer nations? I wonder what would the consequences be if the Pope moved and lived in a tent in Ethiopia or a mud hut in Chile? I think the World would notice, but more importantly, the poor and people on the fringes of society will benefit by the Vicar of Christ in their country, not just for a visit but with sleeves rolled up ,washing their feet, serving the wretched and destitute. The marvellous work that Mother Teresa did in India would be dwarfed if a comparison were needed. The rebels in such countries would have no need to exist, as the Church would be there administering to the needy.
Dignitaries wishing to have an audience with the Pope would have to queue with every one else rich or poor, strong or weak, as all are children of God. This situation will cause many changes throughout Chistendom. Dioceses everywhere will look at their situation in the light of the Pope’s move. Bishops will have to be seen serving the poor in their own countries. The needs of the people will come first.
“…Ultimately, the efficiency of the Church’s structures and the style of it’s authority are quite secondary to its ability to discover and proclaim the risen Christ in its midst…”(Jesus A Gospel portrait)
It most likely was the guiding hand of the Holy Spirit that led Peter to Rome and the Christian message was able to spread quickly on the back of the Roman empire, today we don’t need a strong Church of Rome, we need a Strong Church. A vibrant living Body of Christ, serving the poor, spreading the Gospel and building up the Kingdom. No doubt there will be knockers, both lay and eclesiastical, who would demand a return to the Pomp and ceremony of Rome, but this won’t be another ‘Avignon’ the Pope escaping because of political intrigue, this will be a change to more fulfill the Gospel message in the Modern world where materialism and the denial of our Creator God is increasing daily.
God Bless Maurice Mulliga
S
SIb4G
Guest
This smacks of materialism, raw and unbridled. Marx and Engels would be proud. Without even addressing the effectiveness or repercussions of such a move, the thinking behind the idea lacks grounding in the WHOLE Christian dynamic.
But just touching on the issue of poverty:
“Blessed are you poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.” (Lk 6:20) The operative word here is “blessed”. God does indeed, Christianly understood, FAVOR the poor: “for yours is the kingdom of God.”
Sure, INDIVIDUALS, and states, it is commonly believed, have a responsibility to the poor; but, uncommonly understood, Christianly understood, we individually have a spiritual need to embrace poverty as a means to perfection.
H
Holly3278
Guest
Well, I understand why you would be overwhelmed. I am also overwhelmed at times by stuff like this. But we must always remember that Christ’s Church, the Catholic Church, will never be overcome by the gates of Hell.
I am also hopeful that the Holy See responds to the crisis but even if they do not, it will not shake my faith. The local bishop of Notre Dame’s diocese has spoken up about it and so perhaps they (the Holy See) thinks it is not necessary for them to say anything.
T
tap11
Guest
Considering the fact that L’Osservatore Romano has praised the speech, I think that the Holy Father needs to say something. But its not just this Notre Dame business has me worried and upset. American Catholics don’t know their faith, and they think that financial concerns, or healthcare policy bear the same weight as life issues. Why? Probably because A) Horrendous catechesis, which has led to poor formation of conscience (Most of my 10th grade class could not name the four Gospels). B) The hierarchy generally refuses to take a stand, and even assist in confusing the laity with their failure to show a united front. The voters guide was an excellent example. The moment I read it I knew that academics on the left would trumpet the notion of “prudential judgment,” and claim that abortion was only important to “single issue voters.”
Until the hierarchy draws a line in the sand, the Church will continue to languish in a sea of moral relativism.
N
Norminha
Guest
I believe the solution to any problem that the Catholic Church confronts is not to abandon Her. 
Precisely now is when the Church needs all of us together. If one member is missing, the rest of the body will not function. If our Head, Jesus is with us what can scare us?
No matter how big the scandals, no matter how terrible sinners we are; we all are family and family consoles each other, prays for each other, never abandons any one who is in need.
This is a test the devil is presenting to all the members of the only TRUE Church but guaranteed, with our Blessed Mother, mother of all priests, St. Joseph, Guardian of the Church and Terror of Demons and St. Michael the defender of all priests and protector of all the members of the Church at our side, there’s nothing to fear but in total humility face all the problems and attack them with prayer and fasting. Are we ALL doing our part?
It is not the first time our Church is under attack but for over 2,000 years of Her existence. She will overcome all these difficulties.
Lastly, every branch of the Catholic Church has its own problems, no one is immune to sin.
Precisely now is when the Church needs all of us together. If one member is missing, the rest of the body will not function. If our Head, Jesus is with us what can scare us?
No matter how big the scandals, no matter how terrible sinners we are; we all are family and family consoles each other, prays for each other, never abandons any one who is in need.
This is a test the devil is presenting to all the members of the only TRUE Church but guaranteed, with our Blessed Mother, mother of all priests, St. Joseph, Guardian of the Church and Terror of Demons and St. Michael the defender of all priests and protector of all the members of the Church at our side, there’s nothing to fear but in total humility face all the problems and attack them with prayer and fasting. Are we ALL doing our part?
It is not the first time our Church is under attack but for over 2,000 years of Her existence. She will overcome all these difficulties.
Lastly, every branch of the Catholic Church has its own problems, no one is immune to sin.
J
Jesus_N_Cherie
Guest
With all due respect, I COMPLETELY disagree with your viewpoint. The Holy Father and the magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church has NEVER abandoned anyplace or anyone. I am as important to them, and vice versa, as anyone. Jesus goes in search of the lost sheep…He doesn’t count him as lost and forgets him.
The problem is that we in the West think that we are the most important on earth. We think that the Holy Father’s eyes should be focused undividedly on us…to the detriment of the rest of the world. If we find his eyes focused somewhere else, we feel as though we have been betrayed and abandoned. This is foolishness.
As I have previously said, the Church had spoken out against honoring people who oppose Church teaching…especially on intrinsically evil things. And the Bishops spoke out against Obama’s invitation and honorable degree at Notre Dame. Therefore, things were said. People just chose not to listen…which is their right.
I hate that they went against what has been such widespread knowledge of what the Church says. But I will certainly not entertain the thought that the Church has abandoned the West.
B
bookgirl32
Guest
So Maurice, are you planning on doing this as well?
T
Tigg
Guest
I could just cry over the pain in your OP. I too, have alternately felt sadness, outrage and disbelief over this silence. The only reason it hurts so much is because of the love we hold for our Church. I know there was a huge prayer campaign going on that somehow, something could/would be done. Our disappointment is a tough pill to swallow, but as finite humans, we do not see things clearly; nor can we hope to understand the ways of Our Precious Jesus…“as far as the east is from the west, so are My ways from your ways…”
I only know one thing that I will cling to until my last breath…we must keep our eyes focused on what is unseen, and what we know in our innermost being to be holy and true and sacred. Our Good Lord is not fooled by those even within his inner court who murmur, “Lord, Lord…” and yet continue to deny the truths He has left us. Satan is having a grand time, but he will NEVER take down the true, remnant Church. Perhaps that’s all we have left now, is a remnant, but please take heart because we know the words of Jesus to be truth…the enemy will not prevail in the end. We may not understand the why, and even though things like this may temporarily shake our foundation, we have not been abandoned by our Lord, That GREAT reader of hearts, Who only asks that we continue to trust in HIM. We are His soldiers, battle weary though we all are, and must never lay down our weapons of faith, love and obedience in surrender to the enemy.
May God have mercy on us all and especially upon those appointed to the care of souls.
D
Disciple96
Guest
I’m a little surprised to see a Catholic who is obviously passionate about the pro-life issue (which passion is surely to be lauded) and yet so quick to judge our Supreme Pontiff and on the merits of a common secular magazine article, at that. Have you tried reading any Catholic news from Catholic news agencies?
I also submit this, my own thought on the matter. Pope Benedict is not going to interfere in what is surely the local bishop’s responsibility. The US Bishops have spoken out repeatedly. The Pope is watching all of this, I’m sure. But he is not likely to step into the middle of it unless and until he has to. He did, however, have the opportunity to correct Nancy Pelosi and he performed that task admirably. We can only hope and pray that he will have an opportunity to do the same with our President.
Of course, ya didn’t hear about Pelosi’s upbraiding from reading the secular mainstream news. They ignored it for the most part. Except for airing Pelosi’s distorted account. Figures, eh? So, the moral of this story is, don’t be expecting to get Catholic news from non-Catholic news sources.
C
canadianguy1143
Guest
I would like to make an observation here. The Pope could NEVER interfere with the local Bishop in this matter because the local Bishop doesn’t have the authority to do anything in regard to Father Jenkins and Notre Dame. As JR has said repeatedly, Father Jenkins reports to his Provincial Superior and the Provincial Superior reports to the Pope. Also the Provincial Superior has no intention of taking any punitive action on Father Jenkins.
T
Tigg
Guest
Well, that may be; however this has caused much pain and suffering to the Church. This is much more than a controversy - it is, rather, a serious scandal that is causing yet more harm to Catholics in general and the pro-life movement in particular. It seems very odd to me that given the circumstances and the gravity of the situation “nothing” can be done to repair some of the damage.
M
mroy_sw1
Guest
Why isn’t theprovincial superior not taking any action against Father Jenkins? It seems tome that the socalled catholics and luke warm clergy are our worst enemies .Have they forgotten what Jesus said about lukewarm people? " I will vomit them from my mouth’
K
KephasAugustine
Guest
The Church has consistently been VERY clear on the issue of abortion and on the issue of pro-abortion candidates. Why, then, do they need to comment and reiterate for every single specific incident? Learn the teachings and apply them yourself–we are more than capable.
J
JoyProv31
Guest
Actual text of Letter (Plus others following) in the editorial section of The Houston Chronical on Sunday, May 24, '09, by Archbishop Joseph A. Fiorenza.
Reasoned speech
Regarding “Plea for dialogue; Even if we can’t agree, President Obama calls for reasoned respect on the topic of abortion” (Page B8, Wednesday), I agree that President Obama gave “a reasoned and courageous speech” at the University of Notre Dame. As a staunch pro-life supporter, I welcomed both the president’s plea for civil dialogue of mutual respect and courtesy between opposing camps on abortion, and his call to reduce the number of abortions through making adoption more available and providing support for women who carry their child to term. I believe the president is sincere in his desire that abortions be greatly reduced and even rare.
Now the pro-life movement must hold the president to his word. We want his support for the Pregnant Women Support Act, as well as his support for legislation that sonograms be provided for women considering abortions so that they can make an informed choice of aborting their child. We also believe the president should support reasonable parental consent legislation. Those are just some of the ways in which the president’s desire for fewer abortions can be achieved. Now is the time to walk to the talk. If the pro-choice lobby shares the president’s call for respectful dialogue, and I assume they do, and for abortions to be rare and safe, they would not oppose legislation to reduce the number of abortions.
Archbishop Emeritus Joseph A. Fiorenza, Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston
Outside agitators
I have great respect for the Notre Dame students who expressed their opposition to abortion through university-approved activities, including not attending their own graduation ceremony to attend a prayer vigil attended by a thousand people. They didn’t heckle or disrupt graduation, they expressed their beliefs. The eloquence of their words was evident in interviews with the media.
Then came the outside agitators who disrupted, trespassed, conducted unapproved events, got themselves arrested or interrupted and heckled the president during the graduation ceremony. It is unfortunate that those agitators and hecklers, no matter how sincere they were, in effect drowned out the voices of the pro-life students and diminished media coverage of their message. The actions of media-hungry fanatics stole the spotlight from the positive efforts of thoughtful, peaceful, sincere pro-life Notre Dame students.
Bill Vance, Montgomery
Socialist agenda
Regarding the “Catholics should welcome president to Notre Dame” (Page B9, May 16), I assume the author, Mark Tuohey, an attorney, is a very educated man. However, he obviously doesn’t get it when it comes to standards. Yes, Notre Dame’s alumni comprise all faiths and races, but the school is built on a foundation of Catholic beliefs, and the political and religious morals of the man we currently call president fly in the face of all that. Allowing differences of opinion on those beliefs and teachings to be voiced on campus is one thing, but giving a person of stature a non-rebutted platform on which to speak, and then honoring that person, is the beginning of a breakdown of the long-standing fundamentals of a great institution. I’m very disappointed that the Rev. John Jenkins, Notre Dame’s president, has the same socialistic agenda for a great university that Tuohey has for this country.
Larry Galla, Houston
Reasoned speech
Regarding “Plea for dialogue; Even if we can’t agree, President Obama calls for reasoned respect on the topic of abortion” (Page B8, Wednesday), I agree that President Obama gave “a reasoned and courageous speech” at the University of Notre Dame. As a staunch pro-life supporter, I welcomed both the president’s plea for civil dialogue of mutual respect and courtesy between opposing camps on abortion, and his call to reduce the number of abortions through making adoption more available and providing support for women who carry their child to term. I believe the president is sincere in his desire that abortions be greatly reduced and even rare.
Now the pro-life movement must hold the president to his word. We want his support for the Pregnant Women Support Act, as well as his support for legislation that sonograms be provided for women considering abortions so that they can make an informed choice of aborting their child. We also believe the president should support reasonable parental consent legislation. Those are just some of the ways in which the president’s desire for fewer abortions can be achieved. Now is the time to walk to the talk. If the pro-choice lobby shares the president’s call for respectful dialogue, and I assume they do, and for abortions to be rare and safe, they would not oppose legislation to reduce the number of abortions.
Archbishop Emeritus Joseph A. Fiorenza, Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston
Outside agitators
I have great respect for the Notre Dame students who expressed their opposition to abortion through university-approved activities, including not attending their own graduation ceremony to attend a prayer vigil attended by a thousand people. They didn’t heckle or disrupt graduation, they expressed their beliefs. The eloquence of their words was evident in interviews with the media.
Then came the outside agitators who disrupted, trespassed, conducted unapproved events, got themselves arrested or interrupted and heckled the president during the graduation ceremony. It is unfortunate that those agitators and hecklers, no matter how sincere they were, in effect drowned out the voices of the pro-life students and diminished media coverage of their message. The actions of media-hungry fanatics stole the spotlight from the positive efforts of thoughtful, peaceful, sincere pro-life Notre Dame students.
Bill Vance, Montgomery
Socialist agenda
Regarding the “Catholics should welcome president to Notre Dame” (Page B9, May 16), I assume the author, Mark Tuohey, an attorney, is a very educated man. However, he obviously doesn’t get it when it comes to standards. Yes, Notre Dame’s alumni comprise all faiths and races, but the school is built on a foundation of Catholic beliefs, and the political and religious morals of the man we currently call president fly in the face of all that. Allowing differences of opinion on those beliefs and teachings to be voiced on campus is one thing, but giving a person of stature a non-rebutted platform on which to speak, and then honoring that person, is the beginning of a breakdown of the long-standing fundamentals of a great institution. I’m very disappointed that the Rev. John Jenkins, Notre Dame’s president, has the same socialistic agenda for a great university that Tuohey has for this country.
Larry Galla, Houston
J
JoyProv31
Guest
Regarding the children who did not attend their graduation at Notre Dame:
There are not words that express their strength of commitment. What a shame they were not a majority!
That being said: I think it is a HUGE INJUSTICE that they were faced with giving up their morals or giving up their graduation (after arduous studies and their parents after arduous financial sacrifice – check the tuitions) at a Catholic University. What an AMAZING irony; one would feel that at Notre Dame they would not have to make such a choice.
I have a high school junior whose dream school is (hopefully was) Notre Dame and who has worked so diligently in high school, taking the hardest classes and above, and making A’s. She has even mastered two foreign languages. I guess the blessing for us is that we now see how Notre Dame is before we apply and not after we’re there.
There are not words that express their strength of commitment. What a shame they were not a majority!
That being said: I think it is a HUGE INJUSTICE that they were faced with giving up their morals or giving up their graduation (after arduous studies and their parents after arduous financial sacrifice – check the tuitions) at a Catholic University. What an AMAZING irony; one would feel that at Notre Dame they would not have to make such a choice.
I have a high school junior whose dream school is (hopefully was) Notre Dame and who has worked so diligently in high school, taking the hardest classes and above, and making A’s. She has even mastered two foreign languages. I guess the blessing for us is that we now see how Notre Dame is before we apply and not after we’re there.
- Status