The Pope's words on Islam

[cestusdei]

Folks, keep in mind some of those nice peaceful verses have been abrogated. That’s the Islamic doctrine that a later verse cancels and earlier one. The early verses were when Islam was weak, they are the nice ones. The latter ones were when they came to power, they are the killing ones. A lesson is there.

 

[stillsmallvoice]

Hi all!

The New York Daily News put it very nicely yesterday:

So much faith, too little reason

Much as happened last year when a Danish publication printed cartoons of the Prophet Muhammed, Muslim tempers are rising in response to Pope Benedict’s remarks regarding the use of jihad to impose faith. Two churches were firebombed on the West Bank. In India, the pontiff has been burned in effigy. In Turkey, a spokesman for the ruling party declared that the Pope “is going down in history in the same category as leaders such as Hitler and Mussolini.”

The growing fury was all too predictable the moment that Benedict uttered a brief reflection concerning Islam in a half-hour scholarly speech on the interplay of faith and reason. And, given the outbreaks of violence that followed publication of the cartoons, the anger is worrisome.

(…).

The Pope’s fumdamental moral meaning - his “true sense” - cannot be disputed, nor can his commitment to interfaith relations. It is distressing that such thoughts, intended to start dialogue, cannot be spoken without provoking dangerously overheated condemnations. One fears for what may be next among those without reason.

Link: nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/453024p-381263c.html

Be well!

ssv

 

[browser1]

Based on Pope’s statement which he got from an old document, it is true that Islam has been spread through violence.

“Show me just what Muhammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”

Since the arrival of Islam, its founder had force people to convert, which Mohammed himself took part. History has show that he did not condemn violence but advocate it and took part.
Islam does not deceive the title “religion of the peace,” when in fact it promotes “beheading” infidels if they do not convert.

That is a hypocritical thing to say because Christianity has also spread through violence. Take the plank out of your own eye first, and then you will see clearly enough to take the splinter out of your brother’s eye.

“Xtian British Empire looted, pillaged, raped, killed several cultures. They did not seem to follow what you said above. Instead, they spread precisely above message through missionaries to locals and naive locals were plundered and maimed mercilessly. ( As in case of North America… where are those Natives who inhabited it ? ).
In case of Mexico and Latin American countries same approach was used as above by Xtian Spanish Empire. Ditto in case of Xtian French, Portuguese, Germany and Italy in Africa and Asia”. Source:james-mere.sulekha.com/blogs/commentdisplay.aspx?cid=94190

also Islam forbids forceful conversion:
[2:256] There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever rejects Satan (and what he calls to) and believes in Allah, he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handhold, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

Dont judge the religion by a minority of it fanatic followers

 

[browser1]

since reading drudge almost everyday since 9/11, i’ve learned 2 things… Global warming is in debate and muslims LOVE to burn things.
every picture of muslims in India or anywhere, there is a crowd burning something. it’s getting old.

Well not just the muslims, the Indians like to burn things. Regardless of religion. Indians can tend to be aggressive.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Browser,
Show me where Jesus said to spread Christianity through violence.

Secondly, you should know that surah 2:256 was abrogated by surah 8 and 9 which came much later. Surah 2 was an early Medinah verse while surah 8 and 9 were near the end of Mo’s life.

 

[sadie2723]

Islam may not agree with forced conversion, but that did not stop the Muslems from holing a gun on those two Fox reporters and…wait for it…forcing them to convert.

www-tech.mit.edu/V126/N31/31long4.html

Yup…there is that religion of peace again…Convert or Die!

And now, the Al-Qaeda people have treatened another Jihad…their favorite thing to do when they are getting bored…this time agains the Pope who told the truth…which is really offensive to people when it contradicts their lies.

timesonline.co.uk/article/0,3-2363459,00.html

Now what is interesting is the arguement you get, “Hey you are judging Islam based on the work of a few nut jobs.” Problem is, the nut jobs tend to be running the faith and killing people in the name of Allah right and left. Which, lets not forget, is what the Koran tells them to do over and over.

Here are a few of the good people killing in the name of…peace…submission…well, whatever.

saddam hussein: Killed his own people by the thousands and harbored terrorists so that they could go out and kill more.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: Working on a nuke so that he can “reign fire in the name of Allah”…his words not mine. Also denies the Holocaust and the fact that the Jews have their own country.

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono of Indonesia…he said of the Pope’s recent statement . “As the head of state, I regret the pope’s statement. It was unwise and inappropriate.”…I am comforted by that…but I think that butchering Christians by the thousands in your country is pretty inappropriate, but that has not stopped Yudhoyono from doing it.

And, lets not forget that in response to the Pope’s recent statement, the peaceful Muslems burned some churches in the west bank, and killed a nun. Yup, that religion of peace just keeps on giving.

What a total joke!

 

[Mickey]

Now what is interesting is the arguement you get, “Hey you are judging Islam based on the work of a few nut jobs.” Problem is, the nut jobs tend to be running the faith and killing people in the name of Allah right and left. Which, lets not forget, is what the Koran tells them to do over and over.

A few months ago, I watched an interview on CNN by a Muslim woman who escaped Iraq and now lives in the U.S. She was asked about the so called “peaceful moderate Muslims”. She said that at one time, the extremists were a small minority but over the last ten years they have become about 70%. I do not know how much truth there is to this–but it is frightening nonetheless.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

We should judge a religion by its fruits. I have heard Muslims say there is no compulsion in faith, trotting out 2:256 as evidence. This may seem convincing to the uninitiated, but those who understand Islam know that 2:256 was an early Medinan verse revealed when Muhammad was relatively weak but he sure changed his tune when he was strong. From then on, Muslims have always practised compulsion in their religion - for example, putting apostates to death. If that is not compulsion what is?

A clear indication of the Islamic compulsion in religion is the ‘riddah wars’. When Muhammad died in 632, many of the Islamic converts decided to apostate and claimed that their allegiance was solely to Muhammad and not his successors (as was the Arab custom of that time). However, Muhammad’s immediate successor, Abu Bakr as-Siddiq, initiated a series of wars called the Riddah Wars or the Wars of Apostacy, whereby he ordered his generals to attack the apostates and reconvert them to Islam. This was successful, and as an extension of this, the second caliph, Umar al-Khattab, continued the wars outside Arabia, initiating the Islamic period of expansion that was really begun by Muhammad. Thus, by 637AD, five years after Muhammad died, Umar’s troops conquered Jerusalem.

Hence, history tells us that the Islamist ‘no compulsion in religion’ is a lie.

Hasta la vista,
Rodrigo

 

[sadie2723]

A few months ago, I watched an interview on CNN by a Muslim woman who escaped Iraq and now lives in the U.S. She was asked about the so called “peaceful moderate Muslims”. She said that at one time, the extremists were a small minority but over the last ten years they have become about 70%. I do not know how much truth there is to this–but it is frightening nonetheless.

All you gotta do is watch the news:

The Pope tells the truth on the Religion of Violence and what happens? Islams pour into the streets and start protesting, burning churches, and killing people. Not just a few Muslems…thousands of them. But, these people want me to think that “Those people are a minority.” I think not.

And, if they are a minority, you might want to consider getting the MAJORITY to put them in line. Oh wait, nobody is going to do that because…hmmmm I wonder why that is? Could it be because they support it?

 

[cestusdei]

I am judging Islam by the thousands on the streets burning the Pope in effigy, destroying churches, killing nuns, and threatening suicide bombers at the Vatican. When they stop this kind of thing then they can talk about peace.

 

[Mickey]

And, if they are a minority, you might want to consider getting the MAJORITY to put them in line. Oh wait, nobody is going to do that because…hmmmm I wonder why that is? Could it be because they support it?

My thoughts exactly.

The muslims hear the Pope quote something that they perceive as offensive–they don’t bother to take it in context–so what do they do? They burn Churches, destroy property, kill nuns, and spew countless condemnations.

You will know them by their fruits.

 

[pro_universal]

Lots of talking about the violence, zero speculation as to its cause beyond a one-line “Islam is the problem!” type response.

This is why the US is utterly incapable of doing anything good in the middle east. When you conceive of a people as cartoon characters, you cannot work with them…but it’s not because of their unreasonableness. It’s ours.

Please try not to hyperventilate after you read what’s coming next:

Islam is not responsible for the rise of violence in the middle east.

 

[tequilamac]

Lots of talking about the violence, zero speculation as to its cause beyond a one-line “Islam is the problem!” type response.

This is why the US is utterly incapable of doing anything good in the middle east. When you conceive of a people as cartoon characters, you cannot work with them…but it’s not because of their unreasonableness. It’s ours.

Please try not to hyperventilate after you read what’s coming next:

Islam is not responsible for the rise of violence in the middle east.

It is more truthful to say Islam is not entirely responsible for the rise of violence in the Middle East. It is rather a fifty fifty responsibility. US greed and Middle Eastern Greed. Religion is an afterthought in the whole affair and it comes in very handy for George Bush when he wants to fan the flames of war. The Muslim clerics on the other hand find US actions very convenient for fanning the flames of Holy Jihad. Both groups are repulsive to me and as far as that goes, it would seem that both the US and Islam have cut their noses off to spite their faces in the response to the Pope. The Pope is about the only friend Bush and Islam have left. It’s too bad they want to reject that as well.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Another variation of ‘Death to Umrika’. Stop blaming the US for your problems, bud. If it weren’t for us, you would still be riding camels instead of cars.

 

[pro_universal]

It is more truthful to say Islam is not entirely responsible for the rise of violence in the Middle East. It is rather a fifty fifty responsibility. US greed and Middle Eastern Greed. Religion is an afterthought in the whole affair and it comes in very handy for George Bush when he wants to fan the flames of war. The Muslim clerics on the other hand find US actions very convenient for fanning the flames of Holy Jihad. Both groups are repulsive to me and as far as that goes, it would seem that both the US and Islam have cut their noses off to spite their faces in the response to the Pope. The Pope is about the only friend Bush and Islam have left. It’s too bad they want to reject that as well.

Well, considering that Islamic radical groups did not really appear on the scene until the 1980’s, I think you’d be hard pressed to prove this point.

The Muslim clerics got to where they are because of unending oppression. What’s amazing is that it’s taken this long for Muslims to unite around religion in resisting their abuse.

 

[Mickey]

When you conceive of a people as cartoon characters, you cannot work with them…

Speaking of cartoons. Go ahead and draw a cartoon depicting Mohammed in an unfavorable light–and watch the villages burn to the ground.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Well, you can’t get more radical than those blood-thirsty scimitar-wielding Arab Muslims who conquered their way across half the rim of the Mediterranean. But then again, there was no USA to blame for violence in the Middle-East then, was there? No Israel either.

 

[tequilamac]

Well, considering that Islamic radical groups did not really appear on the scene until the 1980’s, I think you’d be hard pressed to prove this point.

The Muslim clerics got to where they are because of unending oppression. What’s amazing is that it’s taken this long for Muslims to unite around religion in resisting their abuse.

Utter nonsense. Why reject the rest of the Islamic history in favor of making a weak point? Islam has been radical since it’s inception. Always radical. Never anything but. It is the fundamentalist nature of Islam just as with Christian Zionists and other Christian fundamentalists to be radical. These groups are not new. Because we have internet which is new you think the groups are new? No. The Western World’s ability to receive info is all that is new now. Before, the news that a Muslim cleric was calling for holy jihad had to be carried by camel, on foot, and by steamer to Britain. But Holy Jihad is not new in Islamic circles.

 

[sadie2723]

Lots of talking about the violence, zero speculation as to its cause beyond a one-line “Islam is the problem!” type response.

Well, that is because the followers of Islam are the problem, and they follow the teaching of the Koran, so yeah…Islam is the problem.

This is why the US is utterly incapable of doing anything good in the middle east. When you conceive of a people as cartoon characters, you cannot work with them…but it’s not because of their unreasonableness. It’s ours.

No, the reason that the US is incapable of doing anything good in the middle east is that everytime Christians try to do anything good in the Middle East or in any Muslem nation, they are thanked with death, violence, and persecution.

Please try not to hyperventilate after you read what’s coming next:

Islam is not responsible for the rise of violence in the middle east.

Yeah! That is a good one! Next you will be telling us the Religion of Peace lie again. You guys crack me up!

As long as Islam has been in existance, it has been the Religion of Violence. Just ask the two Fox News Reports that were forced to Convert or Die. Ask the thousands put to death by Saddam. Ask the thousands of Jews who have been attacked by Islamic butchers. As the thousands of Christians sitting in Muslem jails with their Churches burnt to the ground and their followers put to death. Oh yes, Islam is not in any way responsible…it is jus the Islamic leaders who carry this stuff out in the name of Islam…beccause the Koran tells them to make war on the non-believers.

 

[sadie2723]

Oh, and just so you know…Nuns come to countries to help people…not to be shot in the back by some coward. The Religion of Violence strikes again. Here…give it a read…then you can tell me all about how Islams just want to get along again.

cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=46538