The Pope's words on Islam

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fxrizal said:
Hi pro_universal, I’ve been reading your posts in this thread and it seems you have a lot of sympathy to Islam.

I’m from Indonesia, so please excuse my terrible English :o

You’ve said that no muslim support terrorism. Maybe you only hear that from Muslims who live in Europe or America. Here, unfortunately, regarding the 9/11, many muslims support the attack. Many people smiled and happy when they heard the news that the WTC towers collapsed. Isn’t it a sign of supporting terrorism ?

And maybe you’ve never heard imam’s speech in mosque in Indonesia. Mosque is everywhere around my house and they use loudspeakers (very loud ones :confused: ) to call people to shalat. So, I can hear clearly when imams give their speech/homilies. Some of them is very full of hate to Christians and Jews (although no Jews in Indonesia, because it is prohibited).
I remember one night before Christmas, I heard an imam in one of the mosque said that muslim should not congratulate Christians for Christmas because Christians are kaffir and they are not Allah’s follower, and Christian is the enemy of Islam. He quoted several verses from Quran that are so offensive.

Maybe you only hear good things about Islam from your muslim friends in order to impress you about Islam, but if you Catholic and live in majority Islam country then you will hear the truth.

Here Islam is majority, around 90% of total population, in some provinces around 99%. Catholic is only total around 3% but we are very solid 😃
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No need to apologize for your English. You expressed yourself very well. Thank you for your information to this discussion. I pray that your country is improving since the sunami and that God will bless you.
 
pro_universal said:
Lots of talking about the violence, zero speculation as to its cause beyond a one-line “Islam is the problem!” type response.
But that is exactly what the Pope was trying to do. I’m not going to defend the bigoted nonsense the folks around here sling about. But the Pope offered a careful, reasoned critique linking Islamic violence to a documented view of at least some Islamic theologians. He admitted that this view has also appeared in Christianity–and he should have also noted that there’s plenty of religious violence in Christianity! (and he could have said further that the late-madieval and Reformation periods were the worst in this regard, and that they were also the periods when these “voluntarist” views were most powerful in Christianity).

If the Pope is wrong, Islamic scholars need to show either that he’s reading Islamic theology incorrectly or that the figures he cited (actually he only cited one by name!) are atypical.

Edwin
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Contarini said:
pro_universal;1502484:
Lots of talking about the violence, zero speculation as to its cause beyond a one-line “Islam is the problem!” type response.
But that is exactly what the Pope was trying to do. I’m not going to defend the bigoted nonsense the folks around here sling about. But the Pope offered a careful, reasoned critique linking Islamic violence to a documented view of at least some Islamic theologians. He admitted that this view has also appeared in Christianity–and he should have also noted that there’s plenty of religious violence in Christianity! (and he could have said further that the late-madieval and Reformation periods were the worst in this regard, and that they were also the periods when these “voluntarist” views were most powerful in Christianity).

If the Pope is wrong, Islamic scholars need to show either that he’s reading Islamic theology incorrectly or that the figures he cited (actually he only cited one by name!) are atypical.

Edwin
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Well, at least one cool thing happened here…Edwin and I have found a point of agreement! The Holy Spirit at work again! Well said sir!!!
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Please enlighten us on what ‘bigoted nonsense’ slung about here. Much obliged.
 
I’d just like to add my limited experience of the violence of Islam.

My cousin has married a man who was born in Iran. His family is of the Ba’hai faith. His entire family was forced to leave their homeland and come to America because of the persecution they were under in Iran for not being Muslims. Very tolerant people.

I personally have experienced it when I went on an all summer mission trip to work in a Christian orphanage in Assiout, Egypt. Our team of over 30 Americans had to be guarded by by soldiers all summer to protect us from those who would want to kill us. An armed guard was constantly posted at the orphanage and went with us everywhere whenever we had to go out. I remember seeing Egyptian men openly carrying machine guns at their sides along the streets of Assiout and fearing for my life.
 
pro_universal said:
Attitudes like these towards Muslims have helped convince me to leave Catholicism.

I’m sad when I read these threads. A quote from a medieval Byzantine Emperor about his rivals for power is being used to describe Islam again…it’s as if we’ve learned nothing from a violent, intolerant history.

Thank you, Cestusdei, for being one of many who has helped me to see that Catholicism is not the path to truth that I need to follow.
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Please take the time to see what the Pope said and not what other said he said . The truth may set you free
 
Emperor Manual II Paleologos of the Byzantine Empire only spoke what was true. And is still proving to be true in lands run by orthodox Islam, which are free of Western influence. The Byzantine Empire and other neighboring areas were conquered by the followers of Islam, in the name of Islam. The only thing that prevented that from happening sooner, The Crusades! And those Crusades were initiated to defend against the radical Islamic threat of that period.

Pope Benedict may not be attributing the words himself, but he’s made it clear he is fully aware of the history of things done in the name of “Allah”. And now Muslim leaders are fuming. Calling his words “hostile”. The words were TRUTHFUL. Muhammad took by the sword and across the Middle East, Europe, Africa and Asia we see similar activity today. What can’t be obtained by it being given to them, followers of Muhammad’s own teachings from the later part of his life, are obtaining via their own form of the sword, the bomb!

Muhammad told them they would get higher in heaven if they die in battle and they are going for it. They don’t want the freedom brought to Afghanistan or Iraq. They want the rule that has enabled them to ruin territory and abuse women around the world.
 
Eden said:
So, now today I wake up to the news that the Pope and the West are “doomed”:

articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/iraq-al-qaida-says-pope-west-are-doomed/20060915051209990007?ncid=NWS00010000000001

So, maybe they will be a religion of peace after they kill everyone and force them to convert? I mean, if there is a time to be a religion of peace, there is no greater time than now. Let’s see where the moderates are.
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Yes…that is a VERY good point. Just where are those moderates that they keep telling us are Muslims looking for peace.
 
sadie2723 said:
Yes…that is a VERY good point. Just where are those moderates that they keep telling us are Muslims looking for peace.
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They’re located in the countries where they cannot yet get away with being more “proactive”. 😦 Inshallah they can gather enough of a Muslim population in those countries one day and then pull an abrogation theory on the whole “religion of peace” act, just like Mo did in the Quran.
 
exoflare said:
They’re located in the countries where they cannot yet get away with being more “proactive”. 😦 Inshallah they can gather enough of a Muslim population in those countries one day and then pull an abrogation theory on the whole “religion of peace” act, just like Mo did in the Quran.
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Correct, because if you try to bring peace to Islam…they kill you for it.

Even if you are in an Islamic country doing your best to ease peoples suffering like our recently departed nun Sister Leonella.

“Sister Leonella, 65, was shot in the back four times by pistol-wielding Islamic attackers as she left the Austrian-run S.O.S. hospital.”

Yup…love that Religion of Peace.
 
sadie2723 said:
Correct, because if you try to bring peace to Islam…they kill you for it.

Even if you are in an Islamic country doing your best to ease peoples suffering like our recently departed nun Sister Leonella.

“Sister Leonella, 65, was shot in the back four times by pistol-wielding Islamic attackers as she left the Austrian-run S.O.S. hospital.”

Yup…love that Religion of Peace.
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Yes, and I read an article yesterday that stated she was working at something called the S.O.S.* Kindergarten* hospital. I’m not sure what that means. Perhaps it was a Children’s Hospital. Maybe someone could clarify that.
 
Yes…that is a VERY good point. Just where are those moderates that they keep telling us are Muslims looking for peace.
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I think that these “moderates” have been given plenty of chances to shine and come out of the closet and preach the “peace of Islam”, but they are nowhere to be found.
These “moderates” should be preaching at the top of their lungs to stop this violence and to understand what the Pope was saying. Islam seems to teach that there is martyrdom by dying in battle. So they only know violence because that is what is preached constantly. I do not see these “moderates” preaching peace and to love all people. I have heard it say that these demonstrators are only a few. Well, where in the world are all of these peace loving “moderates” who are supposed to teach that “Islam is a religion of peace”? Where is the outcry of these “moderates” that should be saying to these demonstrators and hate-filled rioters that they are doing more harm to Islam and good? Now is your chance muslims. Show us that Islam is really the religion of peace. If you are out there, I’m sure you fear for your lives if you were to speak out. Why? Because your “religion of peace” is sure to cut your head off. I’m afraid these “moderates” are just a figment of sombody’s imagination.
 
TobyLue said:
I think that these “moderates” have been given plenty of chances to shine and come out of the closet and preach the “peace of Islam”, but they are nowhere to be found.
These “moderates” should be preaching at the top of their lungs to stop this violence and to understand what the Pope was saying. Islam seems to teach that there is martyrdom by dying in battle. So they only know violence because that is what is preached constantly. I do not see these “moderates” preaching peace and to love all people. I have heard it say that these demonstrators are only a few. Well, where in the world are all of these peace loving “moderates” who are supposed to teach that “Islam is a religion of peace”? Where is the outcry of these “moderates” that should be saying to these demonstrators and hate-filled rioters that they are doing more harm to Islam and good? Now is your chance muslims. Show us that Islam is really the religion of peace. If you are out there, I’m sure you fear for your lives if you were to speak out. Why? Because your “religion of peace” is sure to cut your head off. I’m afraid these “moderates” are just a figment of sombody’s imagination.
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Amen!!

Most of the reports I keep seeing say that protests are happening ALL OVER THE WORLD…where are the moderates?

Update to those of you playing along at home…the moderates are also the minority if they exist at all.

Here is what a few in the “majority” had to say about the Pope and the West today…
The group said Muslims would be victorious and addressed the pope as “the worshipper of the cross,” saying, “You and the West are doomed as you can see from the defeat in Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya and elsewhere. … We will break up the cross, spill the liquor and impose [the] head tax; then the only thing acceptable is a conversion [to Islam] or [being killed by] the sword.”
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Yahoo!!! Let’s here it for that Religion of Peace that would never force anyone to convert. I think someone forgot to tell them that.****
 
TobyLue said:
Well, where in the world are all of these peace loving “moderates” who are supposed to teach that “Islam is a religion of peace”?
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This is my question also TobyLue. Even the muslim who sometimes appear on this forum seem to have vanished. :confused:
 
I hope they know what they are doing…note to muslims everywhere: Throwing down with the largest Christian Church on the planet is not a good idea. It may seem cool to you now, but if you ever wanted a unified world response against you, this is the way to get one. Not a good idea fellas.
 
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