The Problem of Original Sin and Concupiscence

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The more I think about it, the more I question the defensibility of original sin and concupiscence. There seems to me to be no doubt that God could have created the laws of nature such that Adam and Eve would not pass original sin and concupiscence onto their descendants. It is certainly not a logical impossibility; therefore, being omnipotent, He could have done it. It would have been a simple act of will for Him to decide that Immaculate Conception was the rule rather than the exception.

If He had, some people would still have used their free will to sin in human history: but surely far, far fewer. Only four people created without sin have existed in human history, and half of them did not sin. In contrast, every single human being conceived with original sin and concupiscence has sinned. It does seem awfully like God stacked the decks against us.

It is all very well to say we have free will. Yes, regardless of concupiscence, every personal sin I commit is my own fault. However, if God had decided not to invent original sin and concupiscence, we would not be naturally inclined to sin. Therefore, far fewer people would have used their free will to sin. There would have been far less evil in the world to offend God. From God’s own perspective, if he had decided that original sin and concupiscence were not transmitted by decent, far fewer people would have disobeyed him. Because of God’s choice, there has been far more sin than there otherwise would have been. So why did he make that choice? Quite apart from the justice of it, it simply does not strike me as very sensible.

Furthermore, consider this. My understanding is that vastly more embryos are created than are ever born (because they die naturally; I am not talking about abortion), much less make it to the age of reason, much less live long enough at the age of reason to commit a mortal sin. Nonetheless, all those embryos, and everyone else who dies unbaptised, is arguably condemned to hell, or at least limbo, because of original sin. The vast majority of the humans who have ever lived never even had a chance to be baptised, much less to use their free will to commit sins. So why did God choose to make original sin a thing, when He could have chosen otherwise? Again, it just does not seem like a sensible decision.

Now, I know that it is possible that unbaptised babies do go to heaven. Yet this raises a further problem. Does this not mean that it would be better to die before reaching the age where it is possible to commit a personal sin? If unbaptised babies go to heaven, then are they not better off, from a salvific perspective, dying before they can risk damnation?

I should make it clear that I accept as a matter of faith everything the Church teaches about original sin and concupiscence. I accept that the Church does not have an infallible teaching on the fate of unbaptised babies. I am playing devil’s advocate here, but I think this is a serious objection which needs an answer. It might be that the only answer is that it is a mystery and that I shall not understand how just and sensible it is until I am dead, but I am hoping there is one I can accept now.
 
I believe that you are over-thinking. Keep it simple, as over-thinking produces doubt where none should exist. I suggest that you read the catechism sections that pertain to the fall from grace.

EDIT: When doubts crop up, doubt yourself first. The faith is the most well tested, most time-proven system of thought on earth. Brilliant minds have all done the heavy lifting for us. We have great faith when we are child-like, as Jesus suggested.

“The devil is in the details” - you’ve heard that. It is true. God is the Master of simplicity while the evil one confuses by complicating things. Here is an excellent article to read about how doubts crop up:

 
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Consider original sin not as a sin but being born outside the faith, that is not being a child of God.

Some believe unbaptized will be tested much like the angels were. Pass or fail.

Einstein used to say God would not do it like that! Meaning it had to be simple as @po18guy said.

One thing God refused to do is make us slaves. He loved us too much. So he gave us free will and all that that entails, suffering, death and hell!
 
One thing God refused to do is make us slaves. He loved us too much. So he gave us free will and all that that entails, suffering, death and hell!
CCCS 1990-1991; "Justification is God’s free gift which detaches man from enslavement to sin and reconciles him to God.

As we see above, if God would not made us slaves of sin at the “fall,” God wouldn’t have to detach us from enslavement to sin.
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Our free will is nothing to do with suffering, death and hell, if God would willed He would create this world in which evil and sin would have no place, like in heaven.

In heaven we will have free will but will be no evil and sin.
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God bless
 
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It would have been a simple act of will for Him to decide that Immaculate Conception was the rule rather than the exception.
You are absolutely correct, it would have been a simple act of will, but God willed to create the universe in a state of journeying to ultimate perfection through the dramas of evil and sin and to convert our sins into greater good.
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311 For almighty God, . . . because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself.177
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324 Faith gives us the certainty that God would not permit an evil if he did not cause a good to come from that very evil, by ways that we shall fully know only in eternal life.
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God bless
 
You wrote that: " it just does not seem like a sensible decision." and “He could have chosen otherwise”
A. Regardless of seeming, God is perfect and so it is the best way. Some things are logical necessities so cannot be made to work differently.

There are three forms of baptism which clean from stain of original sin: water, blood, and desire.

There must be a free will confirmation of charity to receive the Beatific Vision for each person must complete the journey victorious to receive the crown.

You wrote: However, if God had decided not to invent original sin and concupiscence, we would not be naturally inclined to sin.
A. God did not create the original sin but rather permitted it by allowing free will. Adam and Eve were free from concupiscence through the preternatural gift of integrity. Original sin is transmitted by propagation so we do not receive supernatural nor preternatural gifts from conception, that they were given.

You wrote: Does this not mean that it would be better to die before reaching the age where it is possible to commit a personal sin?
A. No, for there is no certainty about the issue for them, rather we express only hope, and for those that are baptized, more time alive can lead to greater merit in heaven (glory).

Note that in the baptized, concupiscence “cannot harm those who do not consent, but manfully resist by the grace of Jesus Christ.”

Council of Trent Session V (June 17, 1546)
Can. 5 If anyone denies that by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is conferred in baptism, the guilt of original sin is remitted, or even asserts that the whole of that which has the true and proper nature of sin is not taken away, but says that it is only touched in person or is not imputed, let him be anathema. For in those who are born again, God hates nothing, because “there is no condemnation, to those who are truly buried together with Christ by baptism unto death” [Rom. 6:4], who do not “walk according to the flesh” [Rom. 8:1], but putting off “the old man” and putting on the “new, who is created according to God” [Eph. 4:22 ff.; Col. 3:9 ff.], are made innocent, immaculate, pure, guiltless and beloved sons of God, “heirs indeed of God, but co-heirs with Christ” [Rom.8:17], so that there is nothing whatever to retard their entrance into heaven. But this holy Synod confesses and perceives that there remains in the baptized concupiscence of an inclination, although this is left to be wrestled with, it cannot harm those who do not consent, but manfully resist by the grace of Jesus Christ. Nay, indeed, “he who shall have striven lawfully, shall be crowned” [2 Tim. 2:5]. This concupiscence, which at times the Apostle calls sin [Rom. 6:12 ff.] the holy Synod declares that the Catholic Church has never understood to be called sin, as truly and properly sin in those born again, but because it is from sin and inclines to sin. But if anyone is of the contrary opinion, let him be anathema.
 
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God made man in “His” image. Not your image of how man should be.
 
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Ignore the people who are telling you not to think and to act like a child.
There’s a difference between thoughtfully considering an issue, and overthinking an issue.
Moderation is key.
One can overthink just like one can overeat or over-exercise. Thinking, eating and exercising are all good and necessary things, but done too much or done wrong they result in bad effects.

When you reach the point where you’re saying God is unjust or not “sensible”, you’re overthinking because you have some idea of how God could have done things better, like you know better than God, rather than actually trying to know and understand and love God. This is an issue with pride (if not an actual sin of pride).
 
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You are entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine. I would note however that many of the people who post on here are not simply “entertaining an idea or hypothetical scenario without actually believing it.” They are actually struggling with a crisis of faith brought on by their thoughts. It’s not a purely intellectual hypothetical thought exercise for them, it’s impacting their life on a lot of levels and in some cases, doing them harm.
 
Latin,
Where does the CCVS quote come from?

When God reprimanded Adam and Eve, He said man would have to work by the sweat of his brow, women would give birth in pain and we would die! I paraphrase obviously! The point is that pain, suffering and death are a result of our sins. Death also presupposes sickness.
 
How are you so sure that far fewer people would have chosen to offend God had they not been conceived in original sin?
 
If there were no Original Sin then
  • there would be no Incarnation
  • there would be no resurrection
  • there would be no participation in the Trinity
  • there would be no death, only life forever in the Garden
 
What implications does that have? God does not suffer from original sin or concupiscence, which is why Adam and Eve were created without them.
 
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It seems only logical that if we were not born afflicted with a tendency to sin (concupiscence), fewer people would choose to sin. As I say, of the four people created without original sin or concupiscence, half of them did not choose to sin. Similarly, only one third of the angels chose to sin. Whereas every person conceived with original sin and concupiscence commits personal sin, assuming they reach the age of reason.
 
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First, it would not be appropriate to include our Blessed Lord in the “four people who were created without original sin” for two reasons. 1) He was not created and 2) being God, He could not have sinned.

With regards to the Blessed Virgin Mary, it would not be appropriate to include her in the list as well. For although she was indeed created without original sin, St. Thomas Aquinas teaches that her inclination to sin (referred to as the “fomes” of sin) while being essentially present in her were bound up. Thus, the possibility for actual sin is removed.

Here is what St. Thomas says:
“Therefore it seems better to say that by the sanctification in the womb, the Virgin was not freed from the fomes in its essence, but that it remained fettered: not indeed by an act of her reason, as in holy men, since she had not the use of reason from the very first moment of her existence in her mother’s womb, for this was the singular privilege of Christ: but by reason of the abundant grace bestowed on her in her sanctification, and still more perfectly by Divine Providence preserving her sensitive soul, in a singular manner, from any inordinate movement. Afterwards, however, at the conception of Christ’s flesh, in which for the first time immunity from sin was to be conspicuous, it is to be believed that entire freedom from the fomes redounded from the Child to the Mother. This indeed is signified (Ezech. 43:2): “Behold the glory of the God of Israel came in by the way of the east,” i.e. by the Blessed Virgin, “and the earth,” i.e. her flesh, “shone with His,” i.e. Christ’s, “majesty.””
[Summa Theologiae, Third Part, q. 27, art. 3. https://dhspriory.org/thomas/summa/TP/TP027.html#TPQ27A3THEP1]

Considering all this, the total of number of humans, created in the state of original justice, who could have sinned and did sin to 2. Thus would bring your total to 2/2 rather than 2/4.
 
God did not create the original sin but rather permitted it by allowing free will.
In fact, God designed/ planned the original sin, predestined from all eternity and God caused their “fall” and they are freely chosen their “fall.”

308 God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes: For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. – Ez.36:27; etc.; I cause you …

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Catholic Encyclopedia : Evil
“But we cannot say without denying the Divine omnipotence, that another equally perfect universe could not be created in which evil would have no place.”

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05649a.htm
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310 But why did God not create a world so perfect that no evil could exist in it?
God freely willed to create a world in a state of journeying towards its ultimate perfection, 314 through the dramas of evil and sin.
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For the benefit of the human race. At the point, God made the above decision: He must create the dramas of evil and sin and this is what He created at His CAUSE of the “fall.”

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THE MYSTERY OF PREDESTINATION by John Salza
Page 113: “God, however, willed to permit Adam to reject His grace and to sin.” – He ordered the events of the “fall.”

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The TECHNICALITY the way God step by step made the events happened at the “fall,” the way God step by step made the “fallen” man/ old creation, 2 Cor.5:17 referring back to.

2 Cor.5:17; Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation: The old has gone, the new is here!

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The Scripture explains in great detail the way God makes from the “fallen” man/ old creation the new creation.

Ez.36:26-27; I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
And I will put my Spirit in you and cause you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

CCCS 1990-1991; "Justification is God’s free gift which detaches man from enslavement to sin and reconciles him to God.
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From the above light, we have good information the way at the “fall” God step by step made/ created the “fallen” man/ old creation. – The reverse of Ez.36:26-27, etc.

At the “fall,” God removed the heart of flesh and put a heart of stone instead.
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God made the “fallen” man/ old creation carnally minded, God also made him unable to subject to His law, (Rom.8:6-7).
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God hardwired/ infused the “fallen” man/ old creation with the law of sin/ God enslaved man to sin, to all manner of evil desire, the inclinations for all kinds of sins, (Rom.7:8-23). etc.

The events described above, at the “fall” God created the dramas of evil and sin.

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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains;

His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.

He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm
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God bless
 
… God caused their “fall” …
As posted before from Catholic Encylopedia, the Catholic dogmas of faith include that:
  • there is absolutely no predestination to sin as a means to eternal damnation.
Pohle, J. (1911). Predestination. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm

Double predestination is a condemned heresy.

Council of Trent
Can. 17. If anyone shall say that the grace of justification is attained by those only who are predestined unto life, but that all others, who are called, are called indeed, but do not receive grace, as if they are by divine power predestined to evil: let him be anathema.
 
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Regardless, someone with an inclination to sin is surely more like to commit sin than someone who does not have an inclination to sin.
 
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