The problem with Fatima

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There is a false understanding of mercry.

It was a mercy that Our Lady showed those children Hell. It is a mercy that she showed those children so that they could tell us of the horrors that lie below for those who disobey God.

If we truly understood how much even one venial sin offended God, we would be saints. God is Just. Just the one sin of Adam and Eve would have been enough for God to cast us off. But He didn’t; He is merciful. But now we have death and pain in our lives; He is just. And we continue to sin, yet God is still ready to forgive, merciful again. I mean the very fact that purgatory even exists at all is the last definite proof of His infinite mercy; even after death His mercy overflows!
 
I just finished reading a book with the actual documents, interviews and investigations on Fatima.

Even in the book it states that the reader will end up with some concerns.
According to Lucia, the Blessed Mother told her that their friend, Amelia, would be in Purgatory until the end of time. if that’s the fate of a child, what hope is there for the rest of us?
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The “end of time,” was not said by the Blessed Mother according to the interviews the children gave to the various investigators.

The “end of time,” clause wasn’t mentioned until Lucia’s fourth manuscript, when she was a nun.

Another is that most people go to hell. The Blessed Mother did not tell the children this. Again, Lucia doesn’t mention it until later in life.

It’s also stated that Lucia suffered extreme scrupulosity as an adult and some of her statements must be taken in that context.

Jim
 
Interesting. Might one ask the name of this book, and the author?

Thank you.
 
It is little known a collection of original documents of the time “recently” (1990s) made available to the public by the Fatima Sanctuary authorities if I am not mistaken.
You cannot obtain them online, I have tried for years.

I was particularly interested in the first apparitions, testimony of which was heavily censored by the authorities because Mary “appeared” in a dress that showed her knees. That was considered, by priests, not of heaven and therefore could not have been Our Lady.

Yet other mature Catholics have noted it would have simply been the traditional dress of the time for her age.
Mary dutifully appeared otherwise after that furore.
 
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I went to Wiki and found a link to “Fatima in Sister Lucia’s own words”, a free online version. Copyright is 2007. Similar?
 
BlackFriar said:
It is little known a collection of original documents of the time “recently” (1990s) made available to the public by the Fatima Sanctuary authorities if I am not mistaken.

You cannot obtain them online, I have tried for years.

I was particularly interested in the first apparitions, testimony of which was heavily censored by the authorities because Mary “appeared” in a dress that showed her knees. That was considered, by priests, not of heaven and therefore could not have been Our Lady.

Yet other mature Catholics have noted it would have simply been the traditional dress of the time for her age.

Mary dutifully appeared otherwise after that furore.
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I am not sure what “heavily censored by the authorities” means. I suppose the vast majority of private revelations are “censored” by the authorities. In fact the vast majority of New Testament books are “censored” by the authorities, you won’t find them in your Bible. Even if Fatima includes approved private revelation, perhaps much, maybe 90% for all I know, concerning what Lucia perceived, does not rise to the level of approved private revelation. So what? If Lucia submitted to the judgement of the Magisterium, why wouldn’t I?

I suppose the followers of the Bayside private revelation regard themselves as “mature Catholics”, unlike the Authorities in the diocese of Brooklyn.
 
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I am not sure what “heavily censored by the authorities” means.
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It means significant raw source material about Our Lady’s apparition was not released to the public because it did not promote the fallible views of the authorities or the artificial picture they wanted to present for public consumption. As opposed to what the Apparition wanted to communicate.
 
BlackFriar said:
It means significant raw source material about Our Lady’s apparition was not released to the public because it did not promote the fallible views of the authorities or the artificial picture they wanted to present for public consumption. As opposed to what the Apparition wanted to communicate.
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The Magisterium is trustworthy to determine that some of the Fatima message is authentic (only as a private revelation) - and most private revelations are not at all credible. If you accept the Magisterium as trustworthy to evaluate private revelations at all, then it follows they are qualified to evaluate which parts are credible.

If you reject the Magisterium’s authority to evaluate, then there is no Fatima. No one is capable of approving it, or Lourdes, or Guadelupe, or any other. “Fatima” would stand in the same category as Bayside revelations, or for that matter Joseph Smith’s vision of the angel and Book of Mormon.
 
The Magisterium did not censor the raw material. Particular priests insulated the children from the public and strongly influenced what parts of their interrogations and resultant notes they released for public consumption.

Such incidents are always a mess and a tangle of seeming contradictions. To be acceptable to the public a consistent picture must be constructed. It is naiive to believe that picture is wholly correct, especially on the margins.
The many false understandings as have been pointed out above also indicate this.

In any case the Church does not approve apparitions or any particular content nor does it declare authenticity. It does observe what is worthy of belief and often canonises the seers. One is always free to reject the alleged supernatural event in whole or in part.
 
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Well the lake of fire does resemble the view of the early Christian writing " The Apocalypse of Peter " which was cited as scripture by some early Church Fathers.
 
Nice of the aliens to tell us which day and at what time they were coming so that … ???
 
I think Saint Gertrude or Saint Mechtilde said that some souls are unable to receive indulgences if they have been really bad in their life. The indulgences would be given to a different soul in purgatory.
 
That’s not how purgatory is taught to work. The point of purgatory is to purify souls so that the undamned can reach Heaven without imperfections. Even one exception to this would mean that purgatory failed at it’s only purpose.
 
Do you know if this saint said that the souls were in purgatory?

Could they be in a worse place and so not receive indulgences?

It would be good to hear from an expert on how indulgences work exactly.

Not necessarily the rules but the reality behind such a distribution. I wonder if the reality of what is happening is fairly well known or if it is one of the many things unknown to us?

Is there some transference of goodness or God opening up himself to someone that perhaps is not worthy but because of his relationship to a third party (the people praying) he will act this way?
 
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There is no problem at all with the appearance of Our Lady at Fatima.
  1. The vision of Hell is perfectly consistent with Catholic dogma. Hell is an actual place. This is what the Church has always taught. Our Lady of Fatima:
“You see Hell, where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them God wishes to establish in the world the devotion to my Immaculate Heart." “. . . Pray, pray a great deal, and make sacrifices for sinners, for many souls go to Hell because they have no one to sacrifice and pray for them.”

Also, “Children, always say the rosary with devotion.” “When you say the Rosary, say after each Mystery, `O my Jesus, pardon us and deliver us from the fire of Hell. Draw all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need.’”
  1. Where is your faith? Our Lady of Fatima tells us that devotion to her Immaculate Heart is one of the means by which God wishes to save souls. Pray the Rosary, as she requests. Jesus Christ tells us that few are saved. Does that mean we should not even bother to be among the few? Of course not. I forget which saint said, it’s not hard to obey when we love the one whom we obey.
 
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