The Problem With Prejudices That Target the Rich

[meltzerboy2]

I think the key is slowly. Too many people want instant gratification; after all, we live in the technological computer age where we can get results at the push or click of a button. But get-rich-quick schemes are seldom successful except perhaps for those who write and sell books about them. You need to have the temperament to take it slowly and persevere despite setbacks. Very few Americans have such temperament.

 

[Freddy]

I have a loving wife (very many years together), our health, our kids are happy and married and live close by (plus the grandkids!), we have a nice house and good friends. I guess I’m rich.

Now if there was only someone to whom I could give thanks for all this good fortune…

 

[JimG]

That is indeed good fortune. Maybe you should give thanks anyway to anyone who may have contributed to it.

 

[StudentMI]

James 5:1-6

1 Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you.
2 Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten.
3 Your gold and silver have rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure for the last days.
4 Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts.
5 You have lived on the earth in luxury and in pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter.
6 You have condemned, you have killed the righteous man; he does not resist you.

 

[Hume]

So was Jesus unjust towards the rich when he said it is easier for a camel to go

Spot on.

God incarnate seemed to be less than supportive of amassing personal wealth.

Sorry I chopped your quote. On my phone.

 

[JimG]

Apparently Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea were followers of Jesus, so he did have some wealthy followers.

 

[JimG]

Well, I have yet to hear a homily at my local parish which urges us all to get rid of wealth and become poor as a Christian duty. Even then, we would still be expected to continue tithing a percentage of our income.

 

[PetraG]

It is hardly impossible that America needs both entrepreneurs and boundaries on the greed of entrepreneurs. Those are hardly mutually exclusive. In a just social contract, a joint venture of industriousness profits everyone. It doesn’t just allow one family or financial venture to accumulate and accumulate and accumulate some more while they have many employees making it all possible who have to hope they don’t get sick.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

My father-in-law worked hard and moved his way up in the company and now they’re rich.

Good for him, but in order for him to be rich others have to be poor, otherwise his wealth has no meaning.

You will not diminish the accomplishment of my parents or my in-laws with your hate filled malarkey.

Don’t tarnish your silver spoon.

Rhetoric like yours has stolen the American dream from countless people who have been talked out of believing it to be possible.

Tell that to the 40 million living in poverty in America. There are over half a million homeless. People work incredibly hard in McDonald and Walmart for close to minimum wages.

Your attitude pours scorn on the billion people in this world living on less than a couple of dollars a day. About twenty thousand children die needlessly every day as a result of grinding poverty and starvation. About a fifth of the children in the world will not get a complete education.

The Bible Society have produced a version of the Bible which highlights in vivid orange the 3000 verses in the Bible that relate to poverty and justice. Flick through The Poverty and Justice Bible and there are highlighted verses on almost every page

A review of ‘The Poverty and Justice Bible’ – Grace + Truth

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Good for him, but in order for him to be rich others have to be poor, otherwise his wealth has no meaning.

Once again, objectively false. Rich as you’re using it is focused on class division, “I’m only rich if I have more money relative to others.” Richness in the economic sense is simply the ability to afford luxury goods. As soon as you can afford luxuries without sacrificing necessities you are effectively rich.

What you’re saying is true of closed economies such as communism, where there’s finite supply. What makes Capatilism such an effective economic system is that is allows everyone to get rich.

Don’t tarnish your silver spoon.

Yeah, there’s that envy showing again. I don’t have a silver spoon, never did. I worked and I studied. My folks helped me out a bit, but I took loans out for school and then paid them back. (Terrible idea, should have gone with a trade skill / professional certification instead. The only positive about college was that I met my wife there.) I never wanted for anything, but I also didn’t get everything I wanted.

Tell that to the 40 million living in poverty in America. There are over half a million homeless. People work incredibly hard in McDonald and Walmart for close to minimum wages.

I’ve watched as people doing that work study, learn new skills, use their money wisely and frugally, and them move beyond that realm. It’s hard, I’ve never claimed otherwise, but it’s entirely doable.

Your attitude pours scorn on the billion people in this world living on less than a couple of dollars a day.

No it doesn’t. It’s directly focused at Americans, who, apart from the most abjectly poor homeless individuals, are rich compared to the vast majority of the planet. I hold no scorn or contempt for most of the poor, a lot of them were born into bad situations and never presented with an example of how to escape them. However, that does not mean that the system in inherently flawed or that my statements are incorrect. Even working a minimum wage job people can pull themselves up out of poverty. I recently read that story of a man who worked a minimum wage job his entire life, and still retired a millionaire. No handouts, no inheritances, just good decision making, avoidance of debt, and slow investing. I heard one story a few days ago about a working single mother making basically minimum wage who got all her debt paid off and has fundamentally altered the course of her future through hard work, perseverance, and just a basic amount of financial literacy.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

As for the question of homelessness, you cannot lump all homeless people together. Certainly there are some who just got hit by terrible circumstances, did nothing wrong, and are suffering at the hands of greedy individuals. It is equally true, however, that there are people who are homeless because they chose to get involved with drugs, or because they simply choose not to have a home. I’ve met a few people like that, they don’t want the responsibility that comes with engaging the standard system, or they’re unwilling to reconcile with the people who could help them.

All homeless deserve our help and our support, but the fact that I am earning a living and investing it well has nothing to do with their homelessness.

If you really want to fix the problems in our economy, get rid of credit cards and get the government out of the money lending business. Credit Cards and Student Loans are the two primary factors behind the growth of poverty in America. The government giving unsecured loans to anyone who asks has driven up the cost of education to unsustainable heights, causing graduates to be unable to live off what they earn in the same way they could before. Credit cards uncouple the acts of purchasing from the act of spending, and allow people to build up huge piles of debt. Just yesterday I saw someone starting on the Baby Steps (Dave Ramsey) who had $45,000 in credit car debt alone. Another person had well over $100,000. That sort of thing right there, massive debt and monthly payments, have more to do with poverty than anything else.

The Bible Society have produced a version of the Bible which highlights in vivid orange the 3000 verses in the Bible that relate to poverty and justice. Flick through The Poverty and Justice Bible and there are highlighted verses on almost every page

Having money isn’t inherently unjust. I’m sorry, but nothing in the Bible supports that statement. Amassing that money illicitly, refusing to use any of it to help the poor, and hoarding it simply to have it are certainly bad things, but the simple acquisition of money is not problematic so long as it’s approached with the proper mindset and humility. Certainly, humble poverty will always be superior, but that doesn’t make humbly acquired wealth inherently bad.

 

[StudentMI]

What makes Capatilism such an effective economic system is that is allows everyone to get rich.

Sadly that has never turned out to be the case. As monopoly and oligopoly rose, the natural tendency of capitalism mind you, wealth began to be redistributed from the bottom to the top.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Sadly that has never turned out to be the case. As monopoly and oligopoly rose, the natural tendency of capitalism mind you, wealth began to be redistributed from the bottom to the top.

Except for that it has turned out to be the case.

There is more wealth in America, more wealthy people, than anywhere at any other point in human history. It is easier to become wealthy, it is easier to generate goods and services, and it’s easier to start a business than at any other time, ever. Just because there is inequality doesn’t mean the system isn’t working.

The division between the wealthy and the poor is getting wider, that’s easy to see, but as I said in my other post, that has more to do with the amassing of debt than it does with an inherent flaw in capitalism. The nature of investing in an open economy generally means that those with more money to invest will continue to amass more, and there’s nothing inherently wrong with that. If I can invest my $10 and make $1, there is nothing inherently wrong with a person of greater means investing $100 and making $10, or $1000 and making $100, etc. We all benefit from the system and, if we are smart with our money, we’ll continue to benefit more and more as time goes on.

I do agree that the turn of the century monopolies and company towns were a terrible, terrible thing, and an inherent risk in unfettered Capitalism. All economic systems have dangers built into them. However, that does not change the fact that capitalism is the only economic system in history to be so effective at raising large numbers of people out of poverty.

 

[StudentMI]

There is more wealth in America, more wealthy people, than anywhere at any other point in human history. It is easier to become wealthy, it is easier to generate goods and services, and it’s easier to start a business than at any other time, ever. Just because there is inequality doesn’t mean the system isn’t working.

Aaaaand you just made an argument for a mixed economy, the most successful model in history at bringing people out of poverty. That is all we’ve ever had, a mixed economy. At times it is more mixed than at other times, but it is always mixed.

As for debt, I would recommend looking into Hyman Minsky and his financial instability hypothesis.

 

[Maximian]

only way to get rich is to overcharge your customers and underpay your staff.

No, that is not the only way.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Aaaaand you just made an argument for a mixed economy, the most successful model in history at bringing people out of poverty. That is all we’ve ever had, a mixed economy. At times it is more mixed than at other times, but it is always mixed.

Maybe, maybe not. I don’t think I did, as I’m generally opposed to government interference in most cases, and I believe that competition will always drive innovation far better than regulation. Still, we are currently a somewhat-mixed economy more towards the pure capitalism end of the spectrum (especially since Trump’s election), and it worked well for a while until the widespread adoption of credit cards (private enterprise), and government involvement in student loans (public enterprise.)

The deregulation of the last three years drove huge economic growth up until Covid hit, so that leads me to believe that a truly free market would be superior to a regulated market. At the same time, I believe certain regulations are positive (i.e., no dumping toxic waste in our water supply, that’s a pretty good one.), so I can’t say that I’m for a fully unregulated economy.

There’s a lot of nuance, and a lot of room for agreement and disagreement about economics. I can see positives in regulation even though I generally don’t favorite it, and I see problems with unregulated capitalism even though it would be my preference. My main problem, and why I posted in this thread originally, was with the asinine assertion that the only way to get rich is through exploitation.

 

[Zaccheus]

Hodos:

“You shall not bear a false report; do not join your hand with a wicked man to be a malicious witness. 2 “You shall not follow the masses in doing evil, nor shall you testify in a dispute so as to turn aside after a multitude in order to pervert justice; 3 nor shall you be partial to a poor man in his dispute.

“You shall not pervert the justice due to your needy brother in his dispute. 7 “Keep far from a false charge, and do not kill the innocent or the righteous, for I will not acquit the guilty.

God condemns when justice is perverted in favor of the poor, just as he condemns when justice is perverted in favor of the rich. We would do well to remember that the word “justice” doesn’t require a modifier.

So was Jesus unjust towards the rich when he said it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven?

Or when He told the rich young man to give away not just his surplus but all his possessions if he would be perfect?

@LilyM
Were you attempting to refute what Hodos quoted?
Jesus had something to say about wealth; but Jesus did not say to be hostile to the wealthy or discriminate against them.

 

[blackforest]

@JimG I’ve long told my children that there’s nothing wrong with making money . . . as long as you do it ethically. What you’re seeing against many of the rich is largely criticism, not prejudice . . . something your article overlooks.

 

[Zaccheus]

The only way to get rich is to overcharge your customers and underpay your staff. The billions left over go to a select few.

This is exactly the kind of sweeping statement made by those prejudiced against Black people, Jews, and other popular targets of discrimination. No, that is not the only way to get rich.

The rich seem to have no qualms outsourcing their manufacturing base to places like China and Korea, so they pay less than minimum wages.

You’re painting with a very broad brush here. Some rich people do such things… Some does not mean all, or even most.

Walmart staff work close to minimum wages, so the Walton family can earn their billions.

Which speaks badly of the owners of Walmart. There are many wealthy businesses that do not do this.

 

[Zaccheus]

@TMC

Jesus didn’t condemn the rich. He condemned the love of money. Not the same thing.