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Sbee0
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Psalm 139:13: For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.
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Sbee0
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Which of course nullifies the whole “my body” argument (it’s another human’s body) and the various pro choice tripe dehumanizing the unborn child as like a tumor or a growth of a clump of cells. Those cells form by meitosis, human life is formed by conception.openmind77:
Science has also already determined that human life begins at conception.LovingWife822:
I understand what the Church’s position regarding abortion is. But how exactly does the NT support this position? In which specific verse/verses?
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LovingWife822
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They were demanding a New Testament passage. However, you are right. Also, nothing in the New Testament contradicts this verse proclaiming the value of life in the womb.
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Sbee0
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Sure. There’s also Gal 1:15:
But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, was pleased
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openmind77
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Hopefully we are more concerned about whether the soul exists upon fertilization (which can also take place in a petri dish).
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Sbee0
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I’m always fascinated with attempts to bring the timeline of right at conception or literally “a few cells” into these debates. Literally nobody seeks abortion during that time, it’s when the woman is aware there is a pregnancy and actively looks to end that pregnancy. That’s a lot later than “a few cells”…
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Bradskii
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There is absolutely no denying that. But will you concede that the few cells in existence immediately after conception are treated entirely differently, and quite reasonably so, from the gazzilions of cells that constitute a baby about to be born?openmind77:
Science has also already determined that human life begins at conception.LovingWife822:
I understand what the Church’s position regarding abortion is. But how exactly does the NT support this position? In which specific verse/verses?
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Sbee0
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See my post right above yours.Sbee0:
There is absolutely no denying that. But will you concede that the few cells in existence immediately after conception are treated entirely differently, and quite reasonably so, from the gazzilions of cells that constitute a baby about to be born?openmind77:
Science has also already determined that human life begins at conception.LovingWife822:
I understand what the Church’s position regarding abortion is. But how exactly does the NT support this position? In which specific verse/verses?
I honestly feel that’s a red herring. Nobody is looking for abortion at the “few cells old” stage, it’s highly doubful they even know they’re pregnant…
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Lifeisbeautiful3
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Based on the prolific sale of “Plan B” (designed to be taken after unprotected sex, whether due to rape or a lapse of judgement in an inebriated state), I’d say that many people DO seek an immediate abortion of the “few cells”
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Sbee0
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That’s a contraceptive. It isn’t going to a clinic and getting an abortion.Sbee0:
Based on the prolific sale of “Plan B” (designed to be taken after unprotected sex, whether due to rape or a lapse of judgement in an inebriated state), I’d say that many people DO seek an immediate abortion of the “few cells”
blackforest
Well-known member
Yes and no. We both acknowledge that they’re different types of abortions. But
If I understand you correctly, you see a bioethical difference between early-term and late-term abortions because women may feel more sadness toward the latter, or perhaps because the thought of killing a fetus closer to infancy just feels queasier.
By contrast, I acknowledge the emotional and medical differences but see no bioethical difference; unjust killing is unjust killing, regardless of how small or dependent someone is and regardless of our emotions toward the action.
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jrgmercado
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Not according to teaching…many consider the pill and Plan B as abortifacient.
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Sbee0
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Not arguing that taking the drug isn’t sinful - it is. But the makers of the Plan B drug say themselves that the drug cannot terminate a pregnancy so it really sounds like a contraceptive. It’s doubtful someone who takes this drug is considering themselves to be getting an abortion. The pill is taken “just in case” - it’s not taken to deliberately abort.
Either way, the line about a “few cells” doesn’t really fit into the discussion of abortion as this is not when abortion is sought.
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TheLittleLady
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The desired action, preventing implantation after conception, is immoral. Life begins at conception.
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Sbee0
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Totally agree. Contraception is gravely sinful, although unique from the sin of abortion.
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TheLittleLady
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When one prevents the conceived embryo from implantation, this is an abortive act.
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Sbee0
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Right - but it’s also taken “just in case” like a contraception, I don’t think people take it realizing that conception has definitely occurred and are deliberately aborting when they take it. I don’t know if people actually confess taking this by saying they had an “abortion”.
I guess all I’m saying is there’s no point in this debate arguing over the precise difference between an abortive act of “a few cells” vs a fully developing fetus. I’ve even seen discussions from some that life doesn’t being right at conception that there’s a very brief period of a few hours where there is no unique DNA. All of that seems like a red herring to me when it comes to this debate.
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jrgmercado
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didn’t you say that “Science has also already determined that human life begins at conception”?
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Sbee0
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Yep. 10 chars
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goout
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According to mainstream science, a unique human life exists, with unique dna; a unique “fully developing” human life , as you yourself say above.TheLittleLady:
Right - but it’s also taken “just in case” like a contraception, I don’t think people take it realizing that conception has definitely occurred and are deliberately aborting when they take it. I don’t know if people actually confess taking this by saying they had an “abortion”.
I guess all I’m saying is there’s no point in this debate arguing over the precise difference between an abortive act of “a few cells” vs a fully developing fetus. I’ve even seen discussions from some that life doesn’t being right at conception that there’s a very brief period of a few hours where there is no unique DNA. All of that seems like a red herring to me when it comes to this debate.
Contraception is an act that prevents this conception.
Abortion is the taking of that unique human life.
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