The Queenship of Mary

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Daisy, I have a question for you. In all of your posts I’ve noticed that you are quite set on the Woman in Rev 12 as being a representation of the nation of Isreal, with the crown that she wears being a direct corralation to those 12 tribes. If this is true, then why is Mary so blessed? She herself was not in direct blood line of this “Tribe of Judah” in which Jesus has come from. In fact, it was Joseph who traditionally holds this rank. To make your argument valid, wouldn’t the birth of Christ have to be via the “Direct blood-line” of Judah’s family lineage as opposed to being “married” into the family?

Furthermore, it was Jesus who came down as God in flesh and fulfilled the law to perfection. By doing so He held strong to all of the commandments, correct? Which means He honored His Father and His mother by holding them in the highest regard.

So if it is true that we must attempt to be perfect like Jesus, which is stated in the Bible, then we too must hold His Father (God + to a much lesser extent, Joseph), and His mother (Mary) in high regard.

If it is true that Jesus found the Church by building it upon Peter, to whom he gave ultimate binding power, then it must be true that the successors of Peter would be able to share this power so that the “gates of hell would not overcome” Christ’s Church.

If all of this is true, and 2000 years later we are still called to be perfect like Christ was, then logically it would be more likely to be accomplished in the Church that He established and by honoring His mother in the same way He did, and in the same way His Church perscribes.
 
DaisyD said:
Look again at your Bible and see how Jesus addressed Mary.
Matt12:46-50
MK3:31-35, Lk8:19-21
Lk11:27-28
most important Jn2:4.
Does He address her as queen?
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Why no, but was he King yet? According to all His parables, he hadn’t received his crown or his Kingdom yet.

But your not, no, of course you’re not… you’re not accusing Jesus of disrespecting his mother, are you? :eek:

And in John 2:4, he’s referring to Mary as the New Eve!!! What a title, don’t you think?
 
DaisyD said:
The ark of the covenant is just that, The box that held the tablets.
Are you saying the ark of the covenant in11:19 is refering to Mary and then 12:1 the woman is also refering to Mary?
Read it over.
The woman in 12:1 and also in 12:6 is refering to the nation of Israel.
Zechariah 14:5 backs up the nation fleeing to the wilderness during the tribulation.
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No, I didn’t say that. I see that the Ark of the Covenant is pointing to the Ark of the Covenant. But then there is a sign in the heavens, and the Ark of the New Covenant is revealed - yes, folks, you guessed it! It’s Mary!

Daisy, remember that Scriptures have layers, sort of like onions. I call it the “Shrek Effect” (Why do I feel like a parfait right now?). Anyway, the Church teaches that the Woman represents Mary, the Church, and Israel, all at the same time.
 
DaisyD said:
I thought Mary didn’t have any other offspring. Perpetual virgin remember. So the woman could not be Mary. Thanks for the help proving my point.
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Daisy, read the verse again. It shows who her seed is:
Code: 
  			Originally Posted by **Church Militant** 					[forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=2622256#post2622256) 				
  		*Sorry, but 12:17 blows your whole premise all to pieces. **17 And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ***.  (DRB)
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Church_Militant said:
Try to stay in the discussion G_C.

I’m sorry but a non-binding approved private revelation is not a relevant proof to an apologetic discussion like this, since Catholics are not bound to believe it which means neither is anyone else.

I may accept it or reject it, but it is irrelevant to apologetic discussion for the reasons that I have stated above.

Sorry, I realize that your heart’s in the right place.
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My bad.
 
Goth_Catholic said:
My bad.
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No, you’re words reminded me of how beautiful our Catholic Faith is. Thank you, GC!!!

Personally, I can only give Mary credit for doing one thing for me. Just one. And that’s bringing me closer to Jesus and His Church.

Well OK, that’s two things.

Thanks again, GC!!! And yes, we need to do Apologetics for Catholics, too!! Daisy is not the only person reading this thread that has doubts.
 
Church_Militant said:
Can you show me a scripture that actually says that Jesus gave birth to church?..
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This thread is moving quickly, and I’m not sure if I’m up to speed with it…

Like Eve who was considered to be the Bride of Adam, the Church is considered to the Bride of Christ (Eph 5:32). Like Eve who was born sinless, the Church is immaculate without a stain or blemish (Eph 5:25-27). Like Eve who was born from the ribs of Adam when he was in his deep sleep, the blood that founded the Church poured from Christ’s ribs when he was speared in His side as he slept, in death, upon on the cross (Ac 20:28, Jn 19:34).

The Church was born when Christ was speared in His side. The remarkable imagery with Adam and Eve is fascinating.

I don’t know if that helps the context of the fast moving thread, but I just wanted to add that in.

:twocents:
 
Well, it’s come to a screeching halt until Daisy returns! This is a great time to post it,
 
DaisyD said:
The ark of the covenant is just that, The box that held the tablets.
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The ark of the covenant held the tablets of the law, the Word of God.
Jesus is the Word of God made Flesh.

The ark also held manna, the bread that came down from Heaven.
Jesus is the Bread which came down from Heaven.

The ark also held the staff of Aaron, the High Priest.
Jesus is the Eternal High Priest.
 
DaisyD said:
I worship and I’m obedient to God the Father. And Mary is not His wife.
Remember this: Jesus created Mary before the foundations of the world. Mary didn’t create Jesus.
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Mary is not the wife of God the Father, and the Catholic Church does not teach this.

Actually, God did not create Mary before the foundations of the world, because none of us pre-exist until we are conceived. So Mary did not exist before Her Immaculate Conception in the womb of her mother.

As for Mary not creating Jesus, that goes without saying. It would be blasphemous to suggest otherwise.
 
DaisyD said:
The church definitely didn’t give birth to Jesus. Conversely Jesus gave birth to the church.
The woman could not be Mary because verse12:17 says she had other offspring and you know Mary didn’t have other children, right?
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The other offspring mentioned are Christians. Mary is the Mother of all Christians.
 
God the Holy Spirit overshadowed and then indwelled the Ark. The Ark became the dwelling place of the presence of God [Exodus 40:34-35]](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/exodus/exodus40.htm#v34)
Code: 
     God the Holy Spirit   overshadowed and the indwelled Mary.  At that time Mary’s womb became   the dwelling place of the presence of God [Luke 1:35](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke1.htm#v35)].

         The Ark contained the 10 Commandments [the   word of God in stone], a pot of manna, and Aaron’s rod that came back to life   [Exodus   25:16](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/exodus/exodus25.htm#v16); [Deuteronomy   10:2](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/deuteronomy/deuteronomy10.htm#v2), [5](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/deuteronomy/deuteronomy10.htm#v5);   [Hebrews 9:4](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/hebrews/hebrews9.htm#v4)].

     The womb of the Virgin   contained Jesus: the living Word of God enfleshed, the living bread from   heaven, “the Branch” (Messianic title) who would die but come back to life [Luke 1:35](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke1.htm#v35)].

         The Ark   traveled to the hill country of Judah to rest in the house of   Obed-edom [2   Samuel 6:1-11](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/2samuel/2samuel6.htm#v1)]

     Mary traveled to the   hill country of Judah   (Judea) to the home of Elizabeth   [Luke 1:39](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke1.htm#v39)]

         Dressed in a priestly   ephod, King David approached the Ark   and danced and leapt for joy [2 Samuel 6:14](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/2samuel/2samuel6.htm#v14)]

     John the Baptist, son   of a priest who would himself become a priest, leapt for joy in his mother’s   womb [Elizabeth]   at the approach of Mary [Luke 1:43](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke1.htm#v43)]

         David shouted for joy   in the presence of God and the holy Ark [2 Samuel 6:15](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/2samuel/2samuel6.htm#v15)]

     Elizabeth exclaimed with a loud cry of joy in the presence   God within Mary [Luke   1:42](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke1.htm#v42)]

         David asked, “How is it   that the Ark   of the Lord comes to me?” [2 Samuel 6:9](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/2samuel/2samuel6.htm#v9)]

     Elizabeth asks, “Why is this granted unto me, that the mother   of my Lord should come to me?” [Luke 1:43](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke1.htm#v43)]

         The Ark remained in the house of Obed-edom for   3 months [2   Samuel 6:11](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/2samuel/2samuel6.htm#v11)]

     Mary remained in the   house of her cousin Elizabeth for 3 months [Luke 1:56](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke1.htm#v56)].

         The house of Obed-edom   was blessed by the presence of the Ark   [2 Samuel   6:11](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/2samuel/2samuel6.htm#v11)]

     The word “blessed” is   used 3 times in [Luke   1:39-45](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke1.htm#v39) concerning Mary at Elizabeth’s   house.
         The Ark   returned to its sanctuary and eventually ends up in Jerusalem   where the presence and glory of God is revealed in the newly built Temple [2 Samuel 6:12](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/2samuel/2samuel6.htm#v12);   [1 Kings 8:9-11](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/1kings/1kings8.htm#v9)]

     Mary returned home from   visiting Elizabeth and eventually comes to Jerusalem, where she presents God the Son in the Temple [Luke 1:56](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke1.htm#v56); [2:21-22](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke1.htm#v21)]

         God made Aaron’s rod   (which would be kept in the Ark)   return to life and budded to prove he was the legitimate High Priest [Numbers 17:8](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/numbers/numbers17.htm#v8)].

     God would resurrect His   Son, who had become enfleshed in Mary’s womb and born to bring salvation to   all mankind, to prove He is the eternal High Priest [Hebrews 4:14](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/hebrews/hebrews4.htm#v14)].

         When the Ark was outside the   Holy of Holies [when it was being transported] it was to be covered with a   blue veil [Numbers   4:4-6](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/numbers/numbers4.htm#v4)]
 
Code: 
                 Originally Posted by **NotWorthy**                     [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=2623792#post2623792)                 
             *When the Ark was outside the   Holy of Holies [when it was being transported] it was to be covered with a   blue veil [Numbers   4:4-6](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/numbers/numbers4.htm#v4)*]
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*Oops, I forgot the rest of that:
In Mary’s appearances outside of heaven visionaries testify that she wears a blue veil.
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Code: 
        In [Revelation   11:19](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/revelation/revelation11.htm#v19)
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John sees the Ark of the Covenant in heaven [this is the last verse of chapter 11]
Code: 
     In [Revelation   12:1](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/revelation/revelation12.htm#v1) John sees Mary in heaven.  It is the same vision Juan Diego saw   of Mary in 1531—the Woman clothed with the sun and standing on the moon.
BTW, good call, Charlie!

And I almost forgot, this came from AgapeBibleStudy.com
 
timoteosantiago said:
Daisy, I have a question for you. In all of your posts I’ve noticed that you are quite set on the Woman in Rev 12 as being a representation of the nation of Isreal, with the crown that she wears being a direct corralation to those 12 tribes. If this is true, then why is Mary so blessed? She herself was not in direct blood line of this “Tribe of Judah” in which Jesus has come from. In fact, it was Joseph who traditionally holds this rank. To make your argument valid, wouldn’t the birth of Christ have to be via the “Direct blood-line” of Judah’s family lineage as opposed to being “married” into the family?

Furthermore, it was Jesus who came down as God in flesh and fulfilled the law to perfection. By doing so He held strong to all of the commandments, correct? Which means He honored His Father and His mother by holding them in the highest regard.

So if it is true that we must attempt to be perfect like Jesus, which is stated in the Bible, then we too must hold His Father (God + to a much lesser extent, Joseph), and His mother (Mary) in high regard.

If it is true that Jesus found the Church by building it upon Peter, to whom he gave ultimate binding power, then it must be true that the successors of Peter would be able to share this power so that the “gates of hell would not overcome” Christ’s Church.

If all of this is true, and 2000 years later we are still called to be perfect like Christ was, then logically it would be more likely to be accomplished in the Church that He established and by honoring His mother in the same way He did, and in the same way His Church perscribes.
Click to expand...
I honor and call Mary blessed. However, I will not pray to her, bow to her, sacrifice to her or believe she has anything to do with my salvation.
 
DaisyD said:
I honor and call Mary blessed. However, I will not pray to her, bow to her, sacrifice to her or believe she has anything to do with my salvation.
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Then what do you do when you recite the Glorious Mysteries?!?!? 😉 You don’t leave off after the Pentecost, now do you?
 
NotWorthy said:
Why no, but was he King yet? According to all His parables, he hadn’t received his crown or his Kingdom yet.

But your not, no, of course you’re not… you’re not accusing Jesus of disrespecting his mother, are you? :eek:

And in John 2:4, he’s referring to Mary as the New Eve!!! What a title, don’t you think?
Click to expand...
I’m not accusing Jesus of anything. You read the passages and you make the decision. Did Jesus refer to Mary as queen in those passages or any others?

As far as Jn2:4,I don’t know how you draw the reference to Eve could you explain?
 
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