The question of miracles - Are there convincing miracle cases?

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Blindseeker04 said:
I want to accept Jesus, but I’m trying to see the evidence.
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Evidence exists and it requires a certain effort on your part

Get to actually know Jesus Himself to the best of your ability.

Prayerfully Jump into the New Testament with at least some sort of Positive/Hopeful Assumptive…
 
My opinion is that he’s a fraud. And my question is what more evidence does Jesus have? In fact how does he even have comparable ones?
 
Ok, but that’s different. All the apologists say that Christianity’s case can be made rationally and through historical evidence, but I don’t see them. Now you’re appealing to faith without evidence.
 
Saints did not always levitate. They did not alwys bear the stigmata. God has quite a supply of signs at His disposal - but again,
“blessed are those who have not seen, and have believed”
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I didn’t say they always did. But they also did that. How comes that as we approach the modern era, the most impressive ones vanish? Nobody’s levitating anymore, while stigmata may still appear, or some kinds of vanishing cancers.

I know that about not seeing, but in the end, Christianity claims to make a rational case for itself.
 
Blindseeker04 said:
Ok, but that’s different. All the apologists say that Christianity’s case can be made rationally and through historical evidence, but I don’t see them. Now you’re appealing to faith without evidence.
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Apples and Oranges. Evidences (NEVER PROOF) exists.

FAITH IS THE KEY! (so ill-understood)

For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles…

Again… With even a tiny attempt at FAITH - Dive into the New Testament for evidences…
It’s your journey… I can point the way… I can’t do your work for you.
 
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I’m not asking for mathematical proof, just for plausible evidence. What is it that’s better than Sai Baba’s? It’s a simple question. How can I have faith before I have it? That’s why I’m asking for the evidence that all Christian apologists claim to have. What is it? What makes Jesus’ story more credible? That’s all I’m asking.
 
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Blindseeker04 . . .
What makes Jesus’ story more credible? That’s all I’m asking.
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The Resurrection of Jesus.
 
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As someone who tried, and failed to rationalize Christianity, it really does come down to a leap of faith…a leap I was unable to make yet millions of others have. Christianity, in my opinion, is reasonable only once you’ve made that leap. No leap, no belief. Others have had personal experiences that have helped them to verify their beliefs…something else I’ve never had. But, I can’t argue against what they experienced, only that I can’t feel or see what they did and with none of my own, I failed to gain the faith needed to believe. YMMV
 
I see that there have been scientific investigations showing inexplicable phenomena wrt to some claimed miracles, and that the Church welcomes and in some cases requires these investigations, while Sathya Sai Baba is reported to have “felt that a scientific approach to spiritual issues was improper, adding that ‘Science must confine its inquiry only to things belonging to the human senses, while spiritualism transcends the senses.’”

That is one reason I am more likely to believe Catholic miracles over Sathya Sai Baba’s.
 
You don’t have to believe in them. Why do you think they are important?
 
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By them I assume you mean miracles? I’m not sure whether miracles are important or not. If one could be proven scientifically and accepted as such, it would be evidence that the supernatural exists so it would be important as a piece of evidence. I’d ask in return, why do so many Christians think miracles are so important? Some days there are claims all over the place that some miracle occurred …from Jesus on a piece of toast to milk running from a Hindu statue. Besides Christians seeming to like miracles, why do they need to be claiming them all the time?
 
I don’t know if we are claiming all the time. ,but as skeptical as one may be experiencing the unexplainable is something.
The unexplainable may strengthen ones faith. And faith is to be cherished and taken care of. And give thanks and keep going. And this is something one notices between very religious people. Faith is treated as crystal .
It is beautiful to see when faithful people of different religions whose faith is important to them interact with each other. The deep respect is admirable.
And normally one keeps it in the heart forever.
 
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That’s circular. Jesus story is credible because he was resurrected and we know that he was resurrected because his story is credible.
 
Pattylt said:
If one could be proven scientifically and accepted as such, it would be evidence that the supernatural exists so it would be important as a piece of evidence.
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I do not think that it could be scientifically proven per se, because science only deals with the material. It does not deal with the supernatural, only the natural.

What science can do is measure or observe what is. So, a person was examined by a doctor and found to have a certain disease at a certain time.

At a later time, he is found to no longer have the disease. Doctors may be unable to give an explanation for the disappearance of the disease, but that is all they can do; they cannot say, this was supernatural, because science has no way to measure that.

Science can tell us that a Host with red spots has a mold or fungus, or it can tell us that it is heart muscle with a high number of white blood cells and AB blood. However, science cannot prove that an intervention by God has occurred.

Why does anyone think anything is important that we do not? The answers are probably as numerous as the fans!
 
Blindseeker04 said:
That’s circular. Jesus story is credible because he was resurrected and we know that he was resurrected because his story is credible.
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You always invoke “circular” …

Speaking of “circular”
“I won’t believe Jesus is the Messiah of All unless someone PROVES that Jesus Resurrected !”

Even some who Witnessed Miracles - violently refused to believe

Which is why FAITH, and Demands for Signs aka Proofs - cannot mutually co-exist
 
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Blindseeker04 . . .
That’s circular. Jesus story is credible because he was resurrected and we know that he was resurrected because his story is credible.
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The problem with this is, you are not articulating an argument that I made.

The reason it is “circular” is you are making it circular.
 
Isn’t faith rational? That’s what I thought. Isn’t it supposed to present some evidence? I never said anything about proof.
 
I asked you how we know that Jesus’ story is credible and as evidence you gave me an event of that story. So, again what makes his story, including the Resurrection credible? What more evidence does it have than other miracle stories in history?
 
Blindseeker04 said:
Isn’t faith rational? That’s what I thought. Isn’t it supposed to present some evidence? I never said anything about proof.
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I think you are mistaken. There is nothing rational about faith. The things people believe have no rational explanation.

This applies to faith in any religion or non-religion.
 
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