The Rapture

[brb4]

We Catholics believe that Jesus says the wicked and the righteous will co-exist until the end of the world (Matt. 13:24-30;36-43).

What period of time do you think this scripture is speaking of?

The ‘parable’ would appear to summarize the ‘end’ ---- perhaps covers the final end. This doesn’t seem to fit the Rapture of Church.

Remember … this is parable language by Christ … not an exact scenario of ALL endtime events. There are plenty of other places in scripture, where the end of the Church is discussed.

 

[CentralFLJames]

This teaching is altered from God’s word.Revelation 20 plainly tells us that the First resurrection is for the Children of God.Revelation 20 is very clear in saying that the rest of the dead did not live until the 1000 years were up.
Now the question is,do we go on the word of God and what it has to say in the scriptures or we go by an altered teaching that don’t line up with God’s word.the part that does not line up with the word of God is believing that the righteous are raised up at the same time as the unrighteous .
Scripture plainly states in Revelation 20 "Blessed are those who take part in the first resurrection for they will rule and reign with Christ for a 1000 years.

So now you claim the Catholic Church has altered God’s word if you say so yourself?

The real question here is do we go by Louemma’s infallable interpretation of God’s word who has no recognized pedigree of apostolic teaching or do we go with The Catholic Church’s 2,000 year old handed down apostolic teaching. It’s that cut and dry.

You can bet your own immortal soul on your own private interpretation (against all scriptural warning not to do this) if you like. We can’t stop you or force you to see the absurdity and the gravity in this. But I for one put ALL my trust in God’s Word that tells plainly that “The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth” and to “Take up disputes or questions with the Church”. The Church has incredible intellectual giants like Augustine, Aquinas et-al and all the handed down Sacred Tradition – some of the most intellectual and God fearing and Spirit Filled men in history. The Church does not have to guess about these matters. As well, The Church has the Divine Promise from Jesus Himself of the Holy Spirit leading the Church to all truth AND Christ’s promise that the Church can teach no error (“the gates of hell will not prevail”).

Without even worrying about any other aspect of scripture than these few verses that clearly state the Church’s infallability and supremacy a true Christian we can take as absolute solem truth the Church’s ruling on this matter. The Church has spoken - “there is no literal millennium”. Without a literal millennium there can be no “secret” pre-trib rapture safely taught. The Church has examined it and rejected it. There is no appeal - it is a definitive ruling. And for anyone to teach it is to reject the Church’s authority and to hold themselves up as a higher authority against the clear scripture text as well as the apostolic authority that God himself gave to His Church. Only somone very arrogant would think they knew more than the 2,000 year old Catholic Church when it comes to scripture. Sorry to have to say that.

Don’t bet your soul on it Louemma and don’t bet your entire life on the assumption that the The Last Day even comes in in your generation, or your children’s or their grand-children’s generation. I’d be more concerned with the current “wayward state” we are all in and focus more energy on getting the basics on true sanctification and gaining every drop of grace I could viz the Church Sacraments.

James

 

[brb3]

have brought to bear true teaching of the nearly 1,800 year old Catholic teaching that Millenarianism is rejected. You can’t have a pre-trib rapture unless you believe in millenariansm.

Actually 1700 years … more or less. From Apostles to Augustine … the first 300 years were ‘traditionally’ along the lines of OT ideas on Millennial Reign for the Jews … after the Church was caught up.

 

[brb3]

It is a wild fantasy to project this into a pre-trib rapture context.

Not at all. Based on both Scripture & Tradition, as believed by both J. Martyr & Irenaeus, mainline ECF’s.

The Protestants got their ideas from the Catholic Fathers. Lets not toss out the Catholic Traditional teachings so easily. The Church sees this … and thus has declined to make Amillennialism dogmatic. It understands Daniel … when he teaches the details will be ‘sealed up’ til the end.

No reason at all to get so testy with the Pre-Trib proponents on endtime scripture. Its impossible for us to be dogmatic … we are only making apologies for what we TRULY see is ‘most’ consistent with scripture & tradition.

I have yet to see any Catholic set forth a convincing Amillennial outline … with citations to support. Actually, Louemma has out-debated you so far …

 

[CentralFLJames]

Not at all. Based on both Scripture & Tradition, as believed by both J. Martyr & Irenaeus, mainline ECF’s.

The Protestants got their ideas from the Catholic Fathers. Lets not toss out the Catholic Traditional teachings so easily. The Church sees this … and thus has declined to make Amillennialism dogmatic. It understands Daniel … when he teaches the details will be ‘sealed up’ til the end.

No reason at all to get so testy with the Pre-Trib proponents on endtime scripture. Its impossible for us to be dogmatic … we are only making apologies for what we TRULY see is ‘most’ consistent with scripture & tradition.

I have yet to see any Catholic set forth a convincing Amillennial outline … with citations to support. Actually, Louemma has out-debated you so far …

Is this the same BRB under a new moniker or a copy-cat who is stealing her handle?
I have seen no debate whatsoever from Louemma - just conjectures that don’t track well with the rest of scripture.

James

 

[CentralFLJames]

The ‘parable’ would appear to summarize the ‘end’ ---- perhaps covers the final end. This doesn’t seem to fit the Rapture of Church.

Remember … this is parable language by Christ … not an exact scenario of ALL endtime events. There are plenty of other places in scripture, where the end of the Church is discussed.

Will the real BrB please stand up? I see BrB2, BRB3 and now BRB4.

Is this all the same person or is somone playing games here with sock puppet accounts?

James

 

[brb3]

Scripture plainly states in Revelation 20 "Blessed are those who take part in the first resurrection for they will rule and reign with Christ for a 1000 years.

Perhaps this refers to the Christian Baptism.

Romans 6:4-5 “We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, WE TOO MIGHT WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE. For if we have been united with him in a DEATH LIKE HIS, we shall CERTAINLY BE UNITED WITH HIM IN A RESURRECTION LIKE HIS.”

Perhaps we truly are in the Millennial period right now. What say you CFJ ?

 

[brb3]

Perhaps this refers to the Christian Baptism.

Romans 6:4-5 “We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, WE TOO MIGHT WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE. For if we have been united with him in a DEATH LIKE HIS, we shall CERTAINLY BE UNITED WITH HIM IN A RESURRECTION LIKE HIS.”

Perhaps we truly are in the Millennial period right now. What say you CFJ ?

That’s it. My epiphany understanding on Rev. 20. Paul pre-answered in Romans Chapter 6.

Read this CFJ and Louemma … this is the key text to understanding the 1st Resurrection. It only applies to the Reborn in Christ. :extrahappy:

 

[brb3]

I just knew the Apostles & ECF’s had made the right call on the Rapture & Millennium :yup:

Never doubt what the Early Church taught !! Their instincts and understandings were inspired inerrancy.

Come on CFJ, Louemma, Ryanoneil, etc … lets all :grouphug:

 

[kepha1]

This puzzles me. The Rapturites are mostly comprised of well meaning instant Christians who got saved by following unbiblical evangelical slogans, believe that all “true believers” will be taken up to heaven when Jesus returns on his half coming before the Second Coming, but Our Lord is powerless to take up His mother.

All those book$ and movie$ mu$t be very entertaining.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Temporarily closed for pruning and cleaning.