The Rapture

[Louemma]

First of all, why did you bring up the warning from the end of Revelation, no one has added to or taken away from it in any sense. Secondly, did you bother reading his link? Thirdly in exactly what sense do you understand the trinity? There can’t be any secerets the father keeps from the son, they are perfectly one!

The warning of the book of Revelation states…
Revelation 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book;If anyone adds anything to them,God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
Revelation 22:19 And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy,God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city,which are described in this book.

One poster here claims there will not be a future millennial reign and goes so far as saying the Millennial reign is considered heresy.In Jesus Christ’s revelation to John Jesus tells us there will be a 1000 year reign.So how does one feel justified in deciding against what Jesus lays claim of doing.What I mean is who thinks they can over rule the word of God saying there is no 1000 year reign because THEY believe it’s heresy but God’s word says different.Folks had better stick to what the word of God says.
How do I understand the Trinity is not the topic at hand but I can tell you what Jesus said in regards to the Catching Away…
Mark 13:32 No one knows about that day or hour,not even the angels in Heaven,nor the Son,but only the Father.

It also goes on to say Mark 13:33Be on guard!Be alert!You do not know when that time will come.

 

[CentralFLJames]

Louemma - you are rehashing the same old thing over and over again and acting like you have not even been a participant in this discussion or absorbed what has been said. Go back to the first few pages of this discussion and refresh your memory of what was said a week or so ago.

You have been told time and time again that the Book of Revelation can not be read literally since it is an apocalyptic style of writing. One must use a literalistic form of interpretation. I thought you agreed with this.

James

 

[Louemma]

Louemma - you are rehashing the same old thing over and over again and acting like you have not even been a participant in this discussion or absorbed what has been said. Go back to the first few pages of this discussion and refresh your memory of what was said a week or so ago.

You have been told time and time again that the Book of Revelation can not be read literally since it is an apocalyptic style of writing. One must use a literalistic form of interpretation. I thought you agreed with this.

James

Your opinion matters why?
First off there has been no evidence supporting that the catching away can not happen before the tribulation.Jesus tells us in Revelation 3:10 that God’s children will be kept from the trial and testing that will come upon the whole world.
The Catching away,the resurrection is coming at an hour no one knows.So according to God’s word,he can come at any time.There is more evidence to support a pretrib Catching Away and resurrection for the children of God.
We know in Matthew 24 that there will be one taken and the other left and this is the Catching away.
I am fully aware that Revelation is of future events.You claim it’s not to be taken literal.Is this how you explain other parts of God’s word when you don’t understand what the word is saying?
The rapture/Catching away is an event that could take place at any given time.Nothing else in prophecy needs to be fulfilled in order for the Catching away to occur.
If you can not control your attitude perhaps you need to unsubscribe to this thread because you benefit no one with an hateful attitude while discussing the things of God.

 

[CWBetts]

Your opinion matters why?
First off there has been no evidence supporting that the catching can not happen before the tribulation.Jesus tells us in Revelation 3:10 that God’s children will be kept from the trial and testing that will come upon the whole world.
The Catching away,the resurrection is coming at an hour no one knows.So according to God’s word,he can come at any time.There is more evidence to support a pretrib Catching Away and resurrection for the children of God.
We know in Matthew 24 that there will be one taken and the other left and this is the Catching away.
I am fully aware that Revelation is of future events.You claim it’s not to be taken literal.Is this how you explain other parts of God’s word when you don’t understand what the word is saying?
The rapture/Catching away is an event that could take place at any given time.Nothing else in prophecy needs to be fulfilled in order for the Catching away to occur.
If you can not control your attitude perhaps you need to unsubscribe to this thread because you benefit no one with an hateful attitude while discussing the things of God.

Try John 6. Do protestants just completely ignore that chapter? The ressurection will be on the LAST DAY. That means that the catching away will be on the last day, ie, after the tribulation.

 

[ryanoneil]

Yes, speaking to them [the Jews]. Their Christ had come to them … and most rejected him. And, they were judged within a generation, 40 yrs … and destruction came to them via the Romans, by the very ones they had asked to rid them of Jesus.

They rejected their Christ, announced by the heavens / stars, as their Messiah. Crucified on 4/3/33 AD, when the Earth eclipsed the Moon, at the very moment [3 PM] when the Earth and Sun were dead-centered in the Heart of the Constellation Aries [the Lamb]. When the Full Moon arose that night at sunset … it was a BLOOD MOON, seen by all, and spoken of in scripture to the Jews 50 days later at Pentecost by Peter.

Astronomy has proven this precisely … no scientist can dispute this recent scientific discovery. Mathematical probability of this happening by chance alone would be a number followed by 10 ft of zeros.

Christ announce in Book Matthew [the gospel book primarily written to testify to Jews] that He will again come to them. “Coming on the clouds of heaven”, … when the Church is Raptured. Then, another great Tribulation will come upon the earth … and this time the Jews will finally call him ‘blessed’. This time a golden, millennial age of peace will FINALLY be enjoyed by the Jewish Nation. :heaven:

We Catholics believe that Jesus says the wicked and the righteous will co-exist until the end of the world (Matt. 13:24-30;36-43).

What period of time do you think this scripture is speaking of?

 

[Louemma]

Try John 6. Do protestants just completely ignore that chapter? The ressurection will be on the LAST DAY. That means that the catching away will be on the last day, ie, after the tribulation.

John 6 ,Jesus says AT the last day not THE last day.Read Revelation 20 because it plainly states that"Blessed are those who take part in the first resurrection,for they will rule and reign with Christ(but the rest of the dead did not come to life and these are the souls in hell) for a 1000 years.This is the millennial reign.The word Thousand in Latin is translated Millennial.
After the 1000 year reign,comes the great white throne judgement.This judgement is for death and hell to deliver up the dead that is in them.That is why it states Blessed are those who take part in the first resurrection because the second death has no power over them.
Which brings us back to the Catching Away and first resurrection which can not possibly happen on the last day because the first resurrection occurs before the 1000 year reign.

 

[CentralFLJames]

Your opinion matters why?

Strawman. I have not given my opinion but have brought to bear true teaching of the nearly 1,800 year old Catholic teaching that Millenarianism is rejected. You can’t have a pre-trib rapture unless you believe in millenariansm.

Besides you can’t have it both ways. Either you believe in (the error of) sola scriptura or you do do not. If you do then you have to admit that you are not infallable and you can not rationally deny any other person from having “an opinion” on what scripture tells them. This is the fundamental and glaring flaw of sola scripture - it is an opinionated doctrine. Clearly it is NOT a divine principal since it is inherently a source of error, factions and divisions — all things that Christ did not want.

Your subscription to sola scriptura is an admission that opinions matter. But what does scripture tell us about how to resolve conflicts? It tells us “to take issues up to The Church” for resolution and it also tells us that “The Church (not the bible) is the pillar and foundation of Church”. The church has spoken on the matter but you are resisting the biblical teaching that you must conform yourself to what the Church has resolved.

First off there has been no evidence supporting that the catching away can not happen before the tribulation.Jesus tells us in Revelation 3:10 that God’s children will be kept from the trial and testing that will come upon the whole world

There has been many scripture verses quoted in the many pages on this topic which you refuse to accept as evidence. Go back and read them all. You just want to stubbornly cling to your own private ideas.

In using Rev 3:10 as a basis for pre-trib rapture you have taken only 1 of 7 churches mentioned in Revelation to immediately projected YOURSELF and all “true” Christians into that figurative Church. How do you know you are not in 1 of the other 6 churches? This is unwarranted and is even an arrogant assumption that this church refers to you personally or to Christians at large. There is also a mystical figurative essence to these 7 churches as well as a literal reference to a physical church and one can not just blindly project these into a universal context that further the pre-trib rapture idea that “all Christians” are to be in the mystical aspect of Philadelphia Church. As it turns out this refers to modern Alasehir which is thirty miles southeast of Sardis, founded by Attalus II Philadelphus of Pergamum to be an “open door” (Rev 3:8) for Greek culture; it was destroyed by an earthquake in A.D. 17. Rebuilt by money from the Emperor Tiberius, the city was renamed Neo-Caesarea.

It is a wild fantasy to project this into a pre-trib rapture context.

.The Catching away,the resurrection is coming at an hour no one knows.So according to God’s word,he can come at any time.There is more evidence to support a pretrib Catching Away and resurrection for the children of God.

We may not know when the tribulation comes or the hour of the last day but you are DEAD WRONG in going the other way to assume the opposite sence that we do not know when it will NOT come. This is like someone imagining that just because you can not see them then they can not see you - yet this is exactly how a fisherman casts his net to catch fish. Sorry Louemma but you are using the logic of a minnow to make the world fit to your small world view. There is a huge ocean of thought outside of “the fish bowel” that has been invested by The Church as guided by the Holy Spirit

We can say definitively with complete confidence that The LAST was not today or yesterday. This simple example is alone sufficient to prove you wrong.

Likewise in a more sophisticated manner we can also say that the Last Day will not be before Anti-Christ comes. Take that line of reasoning to see that we can use scripture to say precisely when the Last Day can not come but still not know the actual day that it will until it is upon us.

We know in Matthew 24 that there will be one taken and the other left and this is the Catching away.

As as been stated so many times here that’s its become monotonous is that this is YOUR idea and its been shown as many times to be specious reasoning since its a complete reversal of what the bible has always conveyed - namely God’s enemies are REMOVED and God’s people are LEFT BEHIND to inherit the earth (read your beatitudes).
When the flood came the evil were swept away and the good were left untouched and safe. When the flood of waters came crashing down on Pharaoh’s army they were SWEPT AWAY and the Jews were left to continue on with life. Further Matthew never saw John’s Book of Revelation. For you to make the comparison of Matthew to John is absurd. Are you asserting that Matthew was a prophet who was in partner with John? Do you know of cases in the bible where there was a collaboration of prophets each building on the same prophecy of a prior prophecy?

[continued]

James

 

[CentralFLJames]

I am fully aware that Revelation is of future events.You claim it’s not to be taken literal.Is this how you explain other parts of God’s word when you don’t understand what the word is saying?

Correction I said it needs to be taken in a literalist interpretation. That is to take it in the context of what the author intended. And the way to know what the author intended is to know the author and his teachings. This is where sacred tradition comes into play. St. John was a catholic and his disciples were all Catholic.They were friends of ours - we knew them as family. Ever seen that old Vice Presidential runoff debate between Loyd Bimson and Dan Quayle where Bimson tells Quayle “Kennedy was a friend of mine” when Quayle tries to downplay his youth by comparing himself to the young past President John Kennedy?
*
Quayle: I have far more experience than many others that sought the office of vice president of this country. I have as much experience in the Congress as Jack Kennedy did when he sought the presidency. I will be prepared to deal with the people in the Bush administration, if that unfortunate event would ever occur.

Bimson: “Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy, I knew Jack Kennedy, Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you’re no Jack Kennedy.”
In like manner Louemma, Catholics can say in honesty "We know St. John the apostle. John was a friend of ours. John DID NOT TEACH PRE-TRIP RAPTURE! This has NEVER been taught in all of Christendom until the 1800s. You don’t know what John actually taught and are going by what others have taught you.

The rapture/Catching away is an event that could take place at any given time.Nothing else in prophecy needs to be fulfilled in order for the Catching away to occur.
If you can not control your attitude perhaps you need to unsubscribe to this thread because you benefit no one with an hateful attitude while discussing the things of God.

This is a LIE. I have proven that the “secret rapture” cannot take place at ANY point in time. It can not happen yesterday or at any time in past history so your comment is wrong since ANY implies ALL points in time. Further it can not happen before the tribulation since that would violate many other scripture verses that we have patiently identified for you at least a dozen times now.

If you can not control your hypocritical judgemental-ism and your wild speculations and naked disregard for reason and scripture then perhaps you should get out of the business of trying to teach errors and try to listen instead of exploiting CAF as a platform for advancing your own nonsense and endless undisciplined hyperbole.

James

 

[ryanoneil]

The ones who will reign with Christ for a 1000 years are the ones who take part in the first resurrection(See Revelation 20)
The understanding of the 1000 year reign is simple if you read Revelation 20.Now as several has pointed out that a 1000 years here could be but a day with the Lord.
To have a clear understanding about the saints seen walking the streets and who’s been raised from the dead and who and when people get a glorified body.According to the word of God I will attempt to explain what it is I have read from God’s word…
The soul of man has never been in a state of non existences when the earthly body dies.Before Christ these souls were seperated from God in the earth.You can read this from the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.So we know by scripture the soul of man went down into the heart of the earth.
When Jesus gave up his Spirit he went down and preached to those spirits in prisoned by death(See 1 Peter 18-20)
Jesus went down and now holds the keys to death and hell.The soul of a child of God now goes up into Paradise(See story of theif on cross)
When Jesus released the souls out of the heart of the earth,these souls are in Paradise and still await for the day that the Father says son go get your children.

So then, you believe that every single soul who was waiting in prison + everyone who had died in Christ after his resurrection + everyone who is still alive and worthy of heaven will = those who reign with Christ.

Now the Catching away will be when all the saints come back with Jesus to receive their glorified bodies and this is the first resurrection.Those who are alive on the earth that are God’s children will be changed(receive their glorified body) and we will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
Then the restrainer will be taken out of the way and the beast,the man of lawlessness will be revealed.
The ones who were not caught up will wonder where all the people have gone.

Why would they wonder?

Do you think they would miss the Lords own “cry of command” from heaven, with the “archangel’s call,” and with “the sound of the trumpet of God” (1 Thess. 4:16)?

Some will say"The good are left and the bad taken and they believe this from reading Matt 24 where Jesus states One will be taken and the other left.Jesus also said that it will be like in the days of Noah.Some believe he meant the catching away, which some don’t believe like those who did not believe Noah.Even questioning and making fun of Noah because he warned them but they would not listen.
There will be some on the earth who will accept Jesus and fewer on the earth who will survive the tribulation.When the Lord comes back to earth and steps out onto the mount of olives this is when Satan is bound and this is when the ones who take part in the first resurrection will rule with Christ on this earth for a thousand years.

So is anyone left in heaven during these 1000 years? Seeing as how everyone who took place in the first resurrection will be physically reigning with Christ on Earth.

Then after the 1000 years Satan will be released and will go out and deceive the nations and make war on the saints.Of course we know that Jesus will defeat him and he will be cast into the lake of fire that God made for the Devil and his demons.Then we know there will be a great white throne judgement.This judgement is for those who did not take part in the first resurrection.This judgement is for death and hell to deliver up the souls that were still imprisoned because they were not God’s children.See death has no power on the soul of a child of God because Jesus took care of that when he went down and took the keys of death and hell.
Now we also read that when the great white throne judgement takes place the book of life is opened and who’s name is not found will be cast into the lake of fire.Since there will be people who survive the tribulation,these people will die a physical death because they did not take place in the Catching away.At this judgement the names of all who are not recorded in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire and there will be few because during the tribulation there will be a strong delusion that if it were possible will deceive the very elect.

Do you realize if 1 Thes 4 happened before the 1000 years, it will have to happen again after the 1000 years? Because there will be dead in Christ who have to be resurrected before the people who are living can recieve their glorified body.

**Indeed, we tell you this, on the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will surely not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself, with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Thus we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thes 4:15-17)

Amen, amen, I say to you, the hour is coming and is now here when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For just as the Father has life in himself, so also he gave to his Son the possession of life in himself. And he gave him power to exercise judgment, because he is the Son of Man. Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and will come out, those who have done good deeds to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation. (John 5:25-29)**

 

[ryanoneil]

John 6 ,Jesus says AT the last day not THE last day.Read Revelation 20 because it plainly states that"Blessed are those who take part in the first resurrection,for they will rule and reign with Christ(but the rest of the dead did not come to life and these are the souls in hell) for a 1000 years.This is the millennial reign.The word Thousand in Latin is translated Millennial.
After the 1000 year reign,comes the great white throne judgement.This judgement is for death and hell to deliver up the dead that is in them.That is why it states Blessed are those who take part in the first resurrection because the second death has no power over them.
Which brings us back to the Catching Away and first resurrection which can not possibly happen on the last day because the first resurrection occurs before the 1000 year reign.

What is the difference between “at” the last day and “on” the last day?

Do you believe this?
The 3rd to last day happens before the 1000 years starts. (pre-trib rapture)
The 2nd to last day happens during the 1000 years. (millenial reign)
The last day happens after the 1000 years is completed. (Satan released and white throne judgment)

 

[CWBetts]

John 6 ,Jesus says AT the last day not THE last day.Read Revelation 20 because it plainly states that"Blessed are those who take part in the first resurrection,for they will rule and reign with Christ(but the rest of the dead did not come to life and these are the souls in hell) for a 1000 years.This is the millennial reign.The word Thousand in Latin is translated Millennial.
After the 1000 year reign,comes the great white throne judgement.This judgement is for death and hell to deliver up the dead that is in them.That is why it states Blessed are those who take part in the first resurrection because the second death has no power over them.
Which brings us back to the Catching Away and first resurrection which can not possibly happen on the last day because the first resurrection occurs before the 1000 year reign.

So you don’t ignore the chapter, you just twist it into a pretzel to force God’s word to fit into your preconceived opinion, instead of allowing your views to be shaped by Divine Revelation.

 

[Louemma]

Correction I said it needs to be taken in a literalist interpretation. That is to take it in the context of what the author intended. And the way to know what the author intended is to know the author and his teachings. This is where sacred tradition comes into play. St. John was a catholic and his disciples were all Catholic.They were friends of ours - we knew them as family. Ever seen that old Vice Presidential runoff debate between Loyd Bimson and Dan Quayle where Bimson tells Quayle “Kennedy was a friend of mine” when Quayle tries to downplay his youth by comparing himself to the young past President John Kennedy?
*
Quayle: I have far more experience than many others that sought the office of vice president of this country. I have as much experience in the Congress as Jack Kennedy did when he sought the presidency. I will be prepared to deal with the people in the Bush administration, if that unfortunate event would ever occur.

Bimson: “Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy, I knew Jack Kennedy, Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you’re no Jack Kennedy.”
In like manner Louemma, Catholics can say in honesty "We know St. John the apostle. John was a friend of ours. John DID NOT TEACH PRE-TRIP RAPTURE! This has NEVER been taught in all of Christendom until the 1800s. You don’t know what John actually taught and are going by what others have taught you.

This is a LIE. I have proven that the “secret rapture” cannot take place at ANY point in time. It can not happen yesterday or at any time in past history so your comment is wrong since ANY implies ALL points in time. Further it can not happen before the tribulation since that would violate many other scripture verses that we have patiently identified for you at least a dozen times now.

If you can not control your hypocritical judgemental-ism and your wild speculations and naked disregard for reason and scripture then perhaps you should get out of the business of trying to teach errors and try to listen instead of exploiting CAF as a platform for advancing your own nonsense and endless undisciplined hyperbole.

James

The lie is saying the Catching Away is not taught in God’s word.That is the lie.Anyone with a little intelligence understands that the Catching away happening at any time was not meaning yesterday.To make a statement such as yours implying I meant any point in time is belittling your own intelligence.
You are funny You say I need to control my hypocritical judgements.If you can not act like a rational adult in your responding post then I suggest you leave this thread since you have such strong emotional reactions to this topic.no one is forcing you to participate in this discussion and quiet frankly I have noticed you bounce all over the other threads with an (name removed by moderator)ut of one thing of another.Now,you’ve spoken your opinion on this thread so perhaps you need not view this topic as all can see that you can not discuss the word of God in a Adult Christian manner but rather as a child who pitches tantrums when they don’t get their way.
The catching away is not a new teaching.Paul tells us about the Catching away and so does various other scripture in God’s word.The one who is a liar is the one who claims that this teaching of the Catching away is not in God’s word.That would be you James.In the future I will not respond to ANY of your post because you can not discuss the word of God without having a temper tantrum.
There is no solid scripture to indicate the Catching away will not be pretrib.That is the bottom line.The Lord can come at any time.

 

[panevino]

John 6 ,Jesus says AT the last day not THE last day.Read Revelation 20 because it plainly states that"Blessed are those who take part in the first resurrection,for they will rule and reign with Christ(but the rest of the dead did not come to life and these are the souls in hell) for a 1000 years.This is the millennial reign.The word Thousand in Latin is translated Millennial.
After the 1000 year reign,comes the great white throne judgement.This judgement is for death and hell to deliver up the dead that is in them.That is why it states Blessed are those who take part in the first resurrection because the second death has no power over them.
Which brings us back to the Catching Away and first resurrection which can not possibly happen on the last day because the first resurrection occurs before the 1000 year reign.

are you saying
1st resurection = catching away

could 1st resurection = being born again/baptised

could 2nd death = physical death
1st death = putting away old self when born again

nothing to back this up
just a thought

 

[Louemma]

For all of those who reject that the Catching Away could not happen at any time,why?
The Catching Away will not happen at the end of days.There is no twisted scripture when the word plainly tell us “Blessed are those who take part in the first resurrection”
There will be a 1000 year reign and for you that think we are in the thousand year reign now,let me remind you that this is impossible if you go with the word of God on this.
The first resurrection has not happened yet.There is no if and or buts here,the first resurrection of the dead has not happened as of yet.According to God’s word this event will take place at the Catching Away.Now is there recorded history stating that people were changed in an twinkling of an eye and then Caught Up to the Lord? Have the dead already rose out of their graves and received a glorified body?According to the word of God the ones who take part in the first resurrection will rule and reign here on earth for a 1000 years.Now correct me if I’m wrong but it’s my understanding that a glorified body will never,ever perish.Do we have an account of people on this earth that never grow old,never die?
We are not in the 1000 year reign.The Catching Away happens prior to the 1000 year reign and so does the first resurrection if you believe God’s word then read it for yourself in Revelation 20.
Therefore Jesus said this day no one knows not the hour not the day and there is not one reason that the Lord could not come back at any time and there is no scripture saying the Catching Away is after the tribulation,not one verse.

 

[Louemma]

are you saying
1st resurection = catching away

could 1st resurection = being born again/baptised

could 2nd death = physical death
1st death = putting away old self when born again

nothing to back this up
just a thought

NO

 

[CWBetts]

NO

Riveting exegesis. Your views do not match with Divine Revelation in any way, shape, or form.

 

[CentralFLJames]

The lie is saying the Catching Away is not taught in God’s word.That is the lie.Anyone with a little intelligence understands that the Catching away happening at any time was not meaning yesterday.To make a statement such as yours implying I meant any point in time is belittling your own intelligence.

Emotional? Are you now going to claim that you have the power to jump across the Internet and read emotion over the wire? I have given you very objective statements and if you are seeing emotion outside of occasional frustration that I feel like I am talking to a person who can not grasp fundamental logic (like a teenager) I assure you that I am calm and clear headed. See I can use smileys too. Can you argue from objective reason without so many personal attacks and ad-hominems? You should de-personalize your arguments and just give us the facts or the rationale.

You are the one who is being extremely judgmental, flinging regular ad-hominems and disingenuously twisting the semantics of the discussion and oscillating to and fro. Just because the word “rapture” is in the bible does not mean the bible teaches YOUR interpretation of a pre-trib rapture. So please be more sincere and stop hiding behind that. What you are doing everyone here can see through. You are either have a defect in reason or are engaging in outright deception. Which is the case Louemma?

To make a statement such as yours implying I meant any point in time is belittling your own intelligence.

This is the problem Louemma. We are limited to your very narrow understanding of theology. We are trying to teach you principals here. Time is irrelevant to God since He is outside of time. When you start to make absolute statements like “the rapture can happen ANY TIME” this is a falsehood. Because we know that it CAN NOT happen at any time. You are using a very parochial idea that just because scripture says “we know not the time that Lord comes” that means we can not know anything at all about when the Lord Comes. We can certainly know when he does not come by what he has told us. He will not come backward in history since time advances forward. And we know that there are certain times he will not come going forward in history. He will not come before the tribulation - since he told us he will not. But we still do not know when after the tribulation.
Why is is so hard to engage you in such simple concepts?

You are funny You say I need to control my hypocritical judgements.If you can not act like a rational adult in your responding post then I suggest you leave this thread since you have such strong emotional reactions to this topic.no one is forcing you to participate in this discussion and quiet frankly I have noticed you bounce all over the other threads with an (name removed by moderator)ut of one thing of another.Now,you’ve spoken your opinion on this thread so perhaps you need not view this topic as all can see that you can not discuss the word of God in a Adult Christian manner but rather as a child who pitches tantrums when they don’t get their way.

Louemma - you are a junior member here and I have been here a long time and you are acting like this is your forum and your private play box. This is not YOUR forum. And you can suggest all you want but I am here to tell you that now that I know you have an anti-Catholic agenda I will rebut most everything you say in these forums. You are free to ignore my rebuttals but that will only make you look parochial and unable to defend your own personal opinions. Part of Catholic apologetics is teaching and part of it is defending against stubborn progression of anti-catholic teachings. You are not here to learn but to challenge Catholic view and teach your personal views. I won’t let you mislead others with false doctrines and teaching that you brought into these forums. If you keep attacking me with ad homenums and insist on making it personal I guarantee you that you will not long last here at CAF.

The catching away is not a new teaching.Paul tells us about the Catching away and so does various other scripture in God’s word.The one who is a liar is the one who claims that this teaching of the Catching away is not in God’s word.That would be you James.In the future I will not respond to ANY of your post because you can not discuss the word of God without having a temper tantrum.
There is no solid scripture to indicate the Catching away will not be pretrib.That is the bottom line.The Lord can come at any time.

“CATCHING AWAY” ≠ “SECRET PRE-TRIB RAPTURE”

I really have to ask Louemma - are you an adult with a post-high-school education? Really, no offense but you keep doing this over and over again.

Please stop constructing straw-man arugments - that is against forum rules.

And if you call me a liar one more time I am reporting you for putting up false straw mans.

How many times must it be said? No ONE disagrees that the word “rapture” or “catching away” is in scripture. Can we get past that? But Paul does NOT teach a pre-trib rapture. You do - as has been show here over and over again.

The problem Louemma is YOU are not discussing God’s word - you are discussing Louemma’s word. Hello? YOU are NOT God.

James

 

[CentralFLJames]

Here are the “De Fide” teachings from the Catholic Church for the eschatology that all Catholics must accept as part of our faith. I am putting them here for reference.

The Eschatology of the Whole of Humanity
At the end of the world Christ will come again in glory to pronounce judgment. (De fide.)
The time of Jesus’ second coming is unknown to men. (Sent. certa.)
All the dead will rise again on the last day with their bodies. (De fide.)
The bodies of the just will be re-modelled and transfigured to the pattern of the risen Christ. (Sent. certa.)
The bodies of the godless will rise again in incorruption and immortality, but they will not be transfigured. (Sent. certa.)
Christ, on His second coming, will judge all men. (De fide. )
The present world will be destroyed on the Last Day. (Sent. certa.)
The present world will be restored on the Last Day. (Sent. certa.)

James

 

[Louemma]

Riveting exegesis. Your views do not match with Divine Revelation in any way, shape, or form.

I have gave scripture that lines up with what Jesus had to say on the Catching away (Matthew 24)
Paul taught about the Catching Away in ( 1 Thess 4)
Paul again taught the Catching away in (1 Cor.15:52)
(Revelation 20) tells us there will be a first resurrection BEFORE the 1000 year reign.
This First Resurrection is the catching away and the souls in hell will not be resurrected at the First resurrection because scripture plainly says that the rest of the dead did not live until the 1000 years were finished.
(Revelation 20) tells us there is another resurrection at the Great White throne judgement and this is the second resurrection.
The Catching Away occurs before the 1000 year reign.
The Catching away occurring before the 1000 year reign is what Jesus Christ revealed to John in the book of revelation.How could this not be divine revelation when what I have said comes straight from God’s word.

 

[Louemma]

Here are the “De Fide” teachings from the Catholic Church for the eschatology that all Catholics must accept as part of our faith. I am putting them here for reference.

The Eschatology of the Whole of Humanity
At the end of the world Christ will come again in glory to pronounce judgment. (De fide.)
The time of Jesus’ second coming is unknown to men. (Sent. certa.)
All the dead will rise again on the last day with their bodies. (De fide.)
The bodies of the just will be re-modelled and transfigured to the pattern of the risen Christ. (Sent. certa.)
The bodies of the godless will rise again in incorruption and immortality, but they will not be transfigured. (Sent. certa.)
Christ, on His second coming, will judge all men. (De fide. )
The present world will be destroyed on the Last Day. (Sent. certa.)
The present world will be restored on the Last Day. (Sent. certa.)

James

This teaching is altered from God’s word.Revelation 20 plainly tells us that the First resurrection is for the Children of God.Revelation 20 is very clear in saying that the rest of the dead did not live until the 1000 years were up.
Now the question is,do we go on the word of God and what it has to say in the scriptures or we go by an altered teaching that don’t line up with God’s word.the part that does not line up with the word of God is believing that the righteous are raised up at the same time as the unrighteous .
Scripture plainly states in Revelation 20 "Blessed are those who take part in the first resurrection for they will rule and reign with Christ for a 1000 years.