The Rapture

[CWBetts]

You know that the bodily resurrection is still to come,right?
Now let’s look at Revelation 20 again.You believe that the binding of Satan occurred with the resurrection of Jesus Christ.Why do you believe this?Because death no longer has a hold on a child of God?The reason for this is Jesus died for the sins of the world and he now holds the keys of death and hell.This is not the binding of Satan.He is still operating very much in this world.Revelation 20 says he is bound and will not deceive the nations for a 1000 years.Now whether this is a 1000 years our time or God’s time is not the issue but is Satan bound right now?We know according to God’s word he will be bound and will not deceive the nations and we can look at the world on this very day and what nations come to mind that are deceived and they follow a false God?The Islamic faith is about as many as Christians and we know that Allah is not our Father.These nations are deceived and they are so by Satan.He is not bound,not yet.He is limited to what he can do to a child of God but he is not bound or we would not see Christians oppressed or possessed if he was bound.
So if Satan is not bound then we know the 1000 year reign has not begun and we know this to be 100% a fact because in Revelation 20 the scripture plainly says that"Blessed are those who take part in the first resurrection for they will rule and reign with Christ a 1000 years.
The Resurrection of the dead has not occurred and we know this because going back to 1 Thess 4 we know that the dead in Christ rise first and those who are alive and remain are caught up TOGETHER in the air to meet the Lord
ryanoneil we are still here in a sinful body and all the graves still hold the bodies of the dead in Christ so there is no evidence to support that any of Revelation has already happened and this includes Nero as the man of Lawlessness.Jesus tells us in Matthew 24 that this time will be the worst ever or will ever be on the earth.Nero like Hitler is only a foreshadow of the beast.
I can’t answer your question about the ones who die during the 1000 year reign because the scripture don’t give us this information about the ones who die during this period of the 1000 year reign.More likely from scripture,at the great white throne judgement because the book of life is mentioned and we know the children of God before the 1000 year reign already have their glorified bodies and we know this and you can refer to 1 Thess 4 to confirm this

Are you sure it is a 1000 year reign? Coluld it not just be an allegory for a really long tine ? If a day is as 1000 years, could that not mean that the 1000 years could be interpreted as 365 x 1000 x 1000? That would be 365 MILLION years. ( A really long time). I would argue that Satan is bound. Before the legalization of Christianity, Christians were being executed right and left. Though persecutions still go on today, Christianity does not suffer as it did in the first few centuries. When Satan is loosed for a season, the heavy persecutions will return. Or does that not fit with your preconceived notions?

 

[onenow1]

To All

Matt 27:51 And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom; and the earth shook, and the rocks were split;
52 the tombs also were opened, and many BODIES of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised,
53 and coming out of the tombs AFTER HIS RESSURECTION they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
54 When the centurion and those who were with him, keeping watch over Jesus, saw the earthquake and what took place, they were filled with awe, and said, “Truly this was the Son of God!”

Christ is the first ressurection, the first fruits came along with Him don’t ya think ?

1 Cor 15: 12 Now if Christ is preached as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised;
14 if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.
20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep

Anyway my take on it.

Peace

 

[ryanoneil]

Yes … that verse is Allegory. Satan is NOT a man … but, an angel, a created ‘spiritual’ being. Cast down from heaven … to earth, where he rules the ‘secular’ man/woman.

Here is the take home message of that verse. Satan becomes satan (with a small s) … for those who are now IN CHRIST. Before our Rebirth INTO Christ … he ruled our thoughts/deeds. We were convinced, by him, that we were Kings. EVERYMAN a KING or QUEEN … right ? We were ‘deadmen/women’ walking. But, now we are made ALIVE … and protected by Christ. It’s the Universal Catholic fold [which includes many Protestants] who have been ‘released’ from hold of satan. He is en-prisoned … with regard to the ‘Churched’ Christian … provided we persevere, abiding IN CHRIST, not forsaking the Church [the body of believers In Christ]. The Church represents the ‘sheepfold’. Those inside are safe … the blood of the lamb protects us.

The Church is the Ark that saves us ! Foresake the Church, and we foresake Christ, the Captain of the Ship … and we risk being thrown overboard. Apostasy comes knocking at our ‘unprotected’ door. “Better if he [we] had never been born” … per Christ.

Yes, that is a very good! You are describing the Church Age otherwise known as the millenium.

 

[ryanoneil]

You know that the bodily resurrection is still to come,right?

Absolutely!

I’m still wondering if you believe that all of heaven (every righteous person who had ever lived and died since the creation of man) will be resurrected to a glorified body just prior to the pre-millenial rapture?

Indeed, we tell you this, on the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will surely not precede those who have fallen asleep. (1 Thes 4:15)

I can’t answer your question about the ones who die during the 1000 year reign because the scripture don’t give us this information about the ones who die during this period of the 1000 year reign.More likely from scripture,at the great white throne judgement because the book of life is mentioned and we know the children of God before the 1000 year reign already have their glorified bodies and we know this and you can refer to 1 Thess 4 to confirm this

You are right about one thing. It is at the great white throne.

Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and will come out, those who have done good deeds to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation. (John 5:28-29)

 

[ryanoneil]

how do we know there will be people that are on the earth during the 1000 year reign of Christ who will still be in the perishable body(1) we rule and reign with Christ,who are we ruling?(2) sin is still in the world and a glorified body is without sin.

I absolutely agree there will be people with perishable bodies during the millenium, but we have different understandings of the 1000 years. I don’t understand what you are saying here and how it relates.

Rev says those who sat on the throwns that were entrusted with judgment, and the souls who had been beheaded for not worshiping the beast reign with Christ.

Who you think will be reigning with Christ?

 

[ryanoneil]

But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. How can anyone enter a strong man’s house and steal his property, unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house. (Mt 12:28-29)

Yes … that verse is Allegory. Satan is NOT a man … but, an angel, a created ‘spiritual’ being. Cast down from heaven … to earth, where he rules the ‘secular’ man/woman.

Here is the take home message of that verse. Satan becomes satan (with a small s) … for those who are now IN CHRIST. Before our Rebirth INTO Christ … he ruled our thoughts/deeds. We were convinced, by him, that we were Kings. EVERYMAN a KING or QUEEN … right ? We were ‘deadmen/women’ walking.

Now lets back up a bit.

But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “This man drives out demons only by the power of Beelzebul, the prince of demons.” But he knew what they were thinking and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste, and no town or house divided against itself will stand. And if Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself; how, then, will his kingdom stand? And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your own people drive them out? Therefore they will be your judges. (Mt 12:24-27)

Jesus is using images of a kingdom, city, and house as allusions to the city and Temple of Jerusalem. The Holy City was at a point of spiritual crisis and was the center of diabolical resistance to Jesus. Its leadership were unwitting collaborators and representatives of Satan’s kingdom. Then Jesus says:

But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. How can anyone enter a strong man’s house and steal his property, unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house. (Mt 12:28-29)

Jesus is saying that the power of Satan will be bound with His own death and resurrection and the later evidence of this will be the plundering of Satan’s city (Jerusalem) and house (Temple).

I tell you, on the day of judgment people will render an account for every careless word they speak. By your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned." Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to him, “Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you.” He said to them in reply, "An evil and unfaithful generation seeks a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Jonah the prophet. (Mt 12:36-39)

Now fast forward.

Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how many times I yearned to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her young under her wings, but you were unwilling! Behold, your house will be abandoned, desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’” (Mt 23:36-39)

Then of course we have chapters 24 and 25 of Matthew.

Jesus left the temple area and was going away, when his disciples approached him to point out the temple buildings. He said to them in reply, “You see all these things, do you not? Amen, I say to you, there will not be left here a stone upon another stone that will not be thrown down.” As he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately and said, “Tell us, when will this happen, and what sign will there be of your coming, and of the end of the age?” (Mt 24:1-3)

The book of Revelation is describing everything Jesus was talking about using Apocalyptic imagery. Revelation is the last book because it describes the fulfillment of what Jesus said in the Gospels. It proves Jesus lived up to HIS WORD and is an overture to greater things at the end of time. It was the “sign” that couldn’t be overlooked by the ancient world and it was the sign that Christ was reigning victoriously in heaven and on earth. What we are waiting for is the end of the millenium reign of Christ’s kingdom, final Judgment, and the New Heaven’s and Earth.

 

[brb2]

**

But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. How can anyone enter a strong man’s house and steal his property, unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house. (Mt 12:28-29)**

Jesus is saying that the power of Satan will be bound with His own death and resurrection and the later evidence of this will be the plundering of Satan’s city (Jerusalem) and house (Temple).

No !! Look again. Context gives meaning. Verse 30 … “He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.”

Stealing satan’s property doesn’t mean the destruction of earthen buildings or temple. It is ‘evidenced by’ the work of Holy Spirit, making converts of people, those dead in Adam’s sins … beget in satan’s polution. Christ’s kingdom has come … the Church is protected from satan, since Christ rules his Church. But, the secular world … apart from the Church ? ---- that remains satan’s kingdom … for now.

 

[brb2]

**

Behold, your house will be abandoned, desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’" (Mt 23:36-39)**

the “sign” that couldn’t be overlooked by the ancient world and it was the sign that Christ was reigning victoriously in heaven and on earth. What we are waiting for is the end of the millenium reign of Christ’s kingdom, final Judgment, and the New Heaven’s and Earth.

So here Christ speaks to the unbelieving Jews … not about his Annunciation in 3 BC by the STARS www.bethlehemstar.net/ ], because they have already had that opportunity to SEE, accept and believe, and they WOULD NOT; but about his prophetic RETURN in GLORY ---- appearing in the sky, announced by Trumpets, and gathering [Rapture of] his Church to his Heavenly Glory.

The Jews are still waiting for their King to come in Glory … for a Millennial reign of 1000 years of peace. In the main, they have rejected the Church, yet the Rapture of the Church will be the SIGN in the Heavens that Christ has come in Glory, and the Jews will acknowledge Christ as their ‘blessed Lord’.

I guess its OK for the Church to think of itself in Amillennial terms … because, the millennium is not primarily for us, but for the Jewish nation who still believes in it. The Jews are actively preparing at this moment, for a rebuilding of the 3rd Temple. There is scripture in the OT that points to the reformation of Jewish Nation on 5/15/48 … the exact day it became official. This fulfilled prophesy in scripture was recently shown to the Jewish Gov. … and they admitted it looks valid, and cannot be ignored as just coincidental. Another in a long line of recently fulfilled prophesy. Daniel and John’s prophesy’s are starting to unfold. Science and scriptures are merging … to proclaim the gospel message in a new way. What the Primitive Church once believed was to be in their generation … will soon occur in ours. :byzsoc:

 

[CWBetts]

So here Christ speaks to the unbelieving Jews … not about his Annunciation in 3 BC by the STARS www.bethlehemstar.net/ ], because they have already had that opportunity to SEE, accept and believe, and they WOULD NOT; but about his prophetic RETURN in GLORY ---- appearing in the sky, announced by Trumpets, and gathering [Rapture of] his Church to his Heavenly Glory.

The Jews are still waiting for their King to come in Glory … for a Millennial reign of 1000 years of peace. In the main, they have rejected the Church, yet the Rapture of the Church will be the SIGN in the Heavens that Christ has come in Glory, and the Jews will acknowledge Christ as their ‘blessed Lord’.

I guess its OK for the Church to think of itself in Amillennial terms … because, the millennium is not primarily for us, but for the Jewish nation who still believes in it. The Jews are actively preparing at this moment, for a rebuilding of the 3rd Temple. There is scripture in the OT that points to the reformation of Jewish Nation on 5/15/48 … the exact day it became official. This fulfilled prophesy in scripture was recently shown to the Jewish Gov. … and they admitted it looks valid, and cannot be ignored as just coincidental. Another in a long line of recently fulfilled prophesy. Daniel and John’s prophesy’s are starting to unfold. Science and scriptures are merging … to proclaim the gospel message in a new way. What the Primitive Church once believed was to be in their generation … will soon occur in ours. :byzsoc:

What is this prophecy? The Davidic Kingdom was restored long ago.

 

[JustaServant]

1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

brb2, would you please explain your view of revelation knowing the above fact?

 

[ryanoneil]

No !! Look again. Context gives meaning. Verse 30 … “He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.”

Stealing satan’s property doesn’t mean the destruction of earthen buildings or temple. It is ‘evidenced by’ the work of Holy Spirit, making converts of people, those dead in Adam’s sins … beget in satan’s polution. Christ’s kingdom has come … the Church is protected from satan, since Christ rules his Church. But, the secular world … apart from the Church ? ---- that remains satan’s kingdom … for now.

I agree the saving of souls is implied here, but don’t ever doubt that his talking about the Holy City, and the Temple. Jesus is talking to the Pharisees who just blasphemed against the Spirit in (Mt 12:24). They are agent’s of Satan’s kingdom because they are against Him. They did not gather with Him so they were scattered and cast out when the kingdom of God came upon them. That happened when Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed because they also rejected God’s Messiah.

But he knew what they were thinking and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste, and no town or house divided against itself will stand. (Mt 12:25)

Don’t miss the transition from the 7 woes of the scribes and Pharisees to the Holy City and the Temple in Mt 23.

"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how many times I yearned to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her young under her wings, but you were unwilling! Behold, your house will be abandoned, desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’" (Mt 23:37-39)

The protection of God (Isa 31:5) is being withdrawn from Jerusalem and the Temple becomes devoid of God’s presence (Jer 12:7; Dab 9:17). Jesus symbolically enacts this by leaving in the next verse

Jesus left the temple area and was going away, when his disciples approached him to point out the temple buildings. He said to them in reply, “You see all these things, do you not? Amen, I say to you, there will not be left here a stone upon another stone that will not be thrown down.” As he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately and said, “Tell us, when will this happen, and what sign will there be of your coming, and of the end of the age?” (Mt 24:1-3)

This recalls Ezekiel’s vision of God’s glory leaving Solomon’s Temple and resting on the Mount of Olives (Ezek 10:18; 11:23) and God’s departure was soon followed by the Temple’s first destruction.

Make no mistake! When God left the Holy City and the Temple it was the city and house of Satan. Make no mistake!

How can anyone enter a strong man’s house and steal his property, unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house. (Mt 12:29)

Jesus tied Satan during His Passion and then plunderd Satan’s house 40 years later.

**Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. (Mt 23:36)

Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. (Mt 24:34)**

 

[ryanoneil]

So here Christ speaks to the unbelieving Jews … not about his Annunciation in 3 BC by the STARS www.bethlehemstar.net/ ], because they have already had that opportunity to SEE, accept and believe, and they WOULD NOT; but about his prophetic RETURN in GLORY ---- appearing in the sky, announced by Trumpets, and gathering [Rapture of] his Church to his Heavenly Glory.

The Jews are still waiting for their King to come in Glory … for a Millennial reign of 1000 years of peace. In the main, they have rejected the Church, yet the Rapture of the Church will be the SIGN in the Heavens that Christ has come in Glory, and the Jews will acknowledge Christ as their ‘blessed Lord’.

You are right about Jesus speaking to the people that were listening to him. Of course Jesus is not talking about his birth. He is talking about the immediate future for “them”.

Did you know the OT said the age wouldn’t end until God saved the righteous AND judged the wicked?

He said in reply, "He who sows good seed is the Son of Man, the field is the world, the good seed the children of the kingdom. The weeds are the children of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. Just as weeds are collected and burned (up) with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all who cause others to sin and all evildoers. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears ought to hear. (Mt 13:37-43)

When did the Old Testament age end for “them”?

But Jesus was silent. Then the high priest said to him, “I order you to tell us under oath before the living God whether you are the Messiah, the Son of God.” Jesus said to him in reply, “You have said so. But I tell you: From now on you will see ‘the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power’ and ‘coming on the clouds of heaven.’” (Mt 26:63-64)

Do you know what the clouds of heaven were for “them”?

A psalm of David. The LORD says to you, my lord: “Take your throne at my righthand, while I make your enemies your footstool.” The scepter of your sovereign might the LORD will extend from Zion. The LORD says: “Rule over your enemies! Yours is princely power from the day of your birth. In holy splendor before the daystar, like the dew I begot you.” The LORD has sworn and will not waver: “Like Melchizedek you are a priest forever.” At your right hand is the Lord, who crushes kings on the day of wrath, Who, robed in splendor, judges nations, crushes heads across the wide earth, Who drinks from the brook by the wayside and thus holds high the head. (Psalm 110)

Do you know what this psalm ended up meaning to “them”?

usccb.org/nab/bible/isaiah/isaiah5.htm

usccb.org/nab/bible/ezekiel/ezekiel24.htm

usccb.org/nab/bible/habakkuk/habakkuk2.htm

Do you know what this scripture ended up saying about “them”?

Say what you want about our time. But make no mistake Jesus was talking directly to the people of his time.

 

[brb2]

You are right about Jesus speaking to the people that were listening to him. Of course Jesus is not talking about his birth. He is talking about the immediate future for “them”.

Did you know the OT said the age wouldn’t end until God saved the righteous AND judged the wicked?

But I tell you: From now on you will see ‘the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power’ and ‘coming on the clouds of heaven.’" (Mt 26:63-64)

make no mistake Jesus was talking directly to the people of his time.

Yes, speaking to them [the Jews]. Their Christ had come to them … and most rejected him. And, they were judged within a generation, 40 yrs … and destruction came to them via the Romans, by the very ones they had asked to rid them of Jesus.

They rejected their Christ, announced by the heavens / stars, as their Messiah. Crucified on 4/3/33 AD, when the Earth eclipsed the Moon, at the very moment [3 PM] when the Earth and Sun were dead-centered in the Heart of the Constellation Aries [the Lamb]. When the Full Moon arose that night at sunset … it was a BLOOD MOON, seen by all, and spoken of in scripture to the Jews 50 days later at Pentecost by Peter.

Astronomy has proven this precisely … no scientist can dispute this recent scientific discovery. Mathematical probability of this happening by chance alone would be a number followed by 10 ft of zeros.

Christ announce in Book Matthew [the gospel book primarily written to testify to Jews] that He will again come to them. “Coming on the clouds of heaven”, … when the Church is Raptured. Then, another great Tribulation will come upon the earth … and this time the Jews will finally call him ‘blessed’. This time a golden, millennial age of peace will FINALLY be enjoyed by the Jewish Nation. :heaven:

 

[JustaServant]

1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

From the PROTESTANT KJV.

The Greek word for ‘signified’ is σημαίνω or sēmainō. It means to give a sign, to signify, indicate. In other words, it is a book of signs and symbols.

brb2, would you please explain your view of Revelation knowing the above fact?

\

brb2…would you…pretty please…with sugar on top…answer this post?

 

[brb2]

\

brb2…would you…pretty please…with sugar on top…answer this post?

Signs & symbols have meanings. And, ‘soon’ for God might easily be thousands of years.

God has his ‘timetable’ … and it is right on schedule, ---- down to the day, hour, and second.

 

[Louemma]

I absolutely agree there will be people with perishable bodies during the millenium, but we have different understandings of the 1000 years. I don’t understand what you are saying here and how it relates.

Rev says those who sat on the throwns that were entrusted with judgment, and the souls who had been beheaded for not worshiping the beast reign with Christ.

Who you think will be reigning with Christ?

The ones who will reign with Christ for a 1000 years are the ones who take part in the first resurrection(See Revelation 20)
The understanding of the 1000 year reign is simple if you read Revelation 20.Now as several has pointed out that a 1000 years here could be but a day with the Lord.
To have a clear understanding about the saints seen walking the streets and who’s been raised from the dead and who and when people get a glorified body.According to the word of God I will attempt to explain what it is I have read from God’s word…
The soul of man has never been in a state of non existences when the earthly body dies.Before Christ these souls were seperated from God in the earth.You can read this from the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.So we know by scripture the soul of man went down into the heart of the earth.
When Jesus gave up his Spirit he went down and preached to those spirits in prisoned by death(See 1 Peter 18-20)
Jesus went down and now holds the keys to death and hell.The soul of a child of God now goes up into Paradise(See story of theif on cross)
When Jesus released the souls out of the heart of the earth,these souls are in Paradise and still await for the day that the Father says son go get your children.Now the Catching away will be when all the saints come back with Jesus to receive their glorified bodies and this is the first resurrection.Those who are alive on the earth that are God’s children will be changed(receive their glorified body) and we will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
Then the restrainer will be taken out of the way and the beast,the man of lawlessness will be revealed.
The ones who were not caught up will wonder where all the people have gone.Some will say"The good are left and the bad taken and they believe this from reading Matt 24 where Jesus states One will be taken and the other left.Jesus also said that it will be like in the days of Noah.Some believe he meant the catching away, which some don’t believe like those who did not believe Noah.Even questioning and making fun of Noah because he warned them but they would not listen.
There will be some on the earth who will accept Jesus and fewer on the earth who will survive the tribulation.When the Lord comes back to earth and steps out onto the mount of olives this is when Satan is bound and this is when the ones who take part in the first resurrection will rule with Christ on this earth for a thousand years.Then after the 1000 years Satan will be released and will go out and deceive the nations and make war on the saints.Of course we know that Jesus will defeat him and he will be cast into the lake of fire that God made for the Devil and his demons.Then we know there will be a great white throne judgement.This judgement is for those who did not take part in the first resurrection.This judgement is for death and hell to deliver up the souls that were still imprisoned because they were not God’s children.See death has no power on the soul of a child of God because Jesus took care of that when he went down and took the keys of death and hell.
Now we also read that when the great white throne judgement takes place the book of life is opened and who’s name is not found will be cast into the lake of fire.Since there will be people who survive the tribulation,these people will die a physical death because they did not take place in the Catching away.At this judgement the names of all who are not recorded in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire and there will be few because during the tribulation there will be a strong delusion that if it were possible will deceive the very elect.

 

[JustaServant]

Signs & symbols have meanings.

Okay, so you acknowledge that the word ‘signified’ (using the KJV) means ’ signs or symbols’?
Understanding that basic point solidifies the fact that Revelation cannot be taken literally, as acknowledged by John himself. Keep in the warning at the end of the book about removing any words from this prophecy.
So, consequently then, who determines the meanings behind those signs and symbols?

 

[brb2]

The ones who will reign with Christ for a 1000 years are the ones who take part in the first resurrection(See Revelation 20)
The understanding of the 1000 year reign is simple if you read Revelation 20.Now as several has pointed out that a 1000 years here could be but a day with the Lord.
To have a clear understanding about the saints seen walking the streets and who’s been raised from the dead and who and when people get a glorified body.According to the word of God I will attempt to explain what it is I have read from God’s word…
The soul of man has never been in a state of non existences when the earthly body dies.Before Christ these souls were seperated from God in the earth.You can read this from the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.So we know by scripture the soul of man went down into the heart of the earth.
When Jesus gave up his Spirit he went down and preached to those spirits in prisoned by death(See 1 Peter 18-20)
Jesus went down and now holds the keys to death and hell.The soul of a child of God now goes up into Paradise(See story of theif on cross)
When Jesus released the souls out of the heart of the earth,these souls are in Paradise and still await for the day that the Father says son go get your children.Now the Catching away will be when all the saints come back with Jesus to receive their glorified bodies and this is the first resurrection.Those who are alive on the earth that are God’s children will be changed(receive their glorified body) and we will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
Then the restrainer will be taken out of the way and the beast,the man of lawlessness will be revealed.
The ones who were not caught up will wonder where all the people have gone.Some will say"The good are left and the bad taken and they believe this from reading Matt 24 where Jesus states One will be taken and the other left.Jesus also said that it will be like in the days of Noah.Some believe he meant the catching away, which some don’t believe like those who did not believe Noah.Even questioning and making fun of Noah because he warned them but they would not listen.
There will be some on the earth who will accept Jesus and fewer on the earth who will survive the tribulation.When the Lord comes back to earth and steps out onto the mount of olives this is when Satan is bound and this is when the ones who take part in the first resurrection will rule with Christ on this earth for a thousand years.Then after the 1000 years Satan will be released and will go out and deceive the nations and make war on the saints.Of course we know that Jesus will defeat him and he will be cast into the lake of fire that God made for the Devil and his demons.Then we know there will be a great white throne judgement.This judgement is for those who did not take part in the first resurrection.This judgement is for death and hell to deliver up the souls that were still imprisoned because they were not God’s children.See death has no power on the soul of a child of God because Jesus took care of that when he went down and took the keys of death and hell.
Now we also read that when the great white throne judgement takes place the book of life is opened and who’s name is not found will be cast into the lake of fire.Since there will be people who survive the tribulation,these people will die a physical death because they did not take place in the Catching away.At this judgement the names of all who are not recorded in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire and there will be few because during the tribulation there will be a strong delusion that if it were possible will deceive the very elect.

This would seem a valid reading of prophetic scripture. However, since the Angel told Daniel that the End-Time prophesy would be sealed up til the final days … we can’t confirm the ‘details’ of this just yet. I do think the overall Outline is valid, and useful in study of End-Time scriptures.

 

[Cristian_B]

Okay, so you acknowledge that the word ‘signified’ (using the KJV) means ’ signs or symbols’?
Understanding that basic point solidifies the fact that Revelation cannot be taken literally, as acknowledged by John himself. Keep in the warning at the end of the book about removing any words from this prophecy.
So, consequently then, who determines the meanings behind those signs and symbols?

We could use our knowledge and reason which God gave us trough the holy spirit to investigate and research the meanings of the symbols. From the prophecy itself we learn that “sea” means multitudes of people and that the “beasts” are kings of kingdoms; political powers, to be more accurate (we know that from what the angel reveals to Daniel and John). And using our wisdom, intelligence and cleverness we deduce for example that “horns/heads” are subdivisions of the political powers, that “wings” equal speed or swiftness, that “winds” mean war/strife, etc. The Scripture itself does not reveal that, but by investigating we discover that.

* The Lion - Babylon. Wings represent conquering speed.
* The Bear - Medo-Persia. One shoulder raised above the other represents the dominance of the Medes over the Persians. The three ribs represent the three kingdoms overthrown by this kingdom - Egypt, Lydia, and Babylon.
* The Leopard - Greece. Four wings represent conquering speed, which was quite great. The four heads clearly mean Alexander the Great’s four generals who ruled Greece after his death – Seleucus, Ptolemy, Lysimachus and Cassander. 
* The different beast - Rome. The ten horns - the divisions of Rome (like the toes in chapter 2) The ten horns are the 10 divisions of the Roman Empire when it fell apart. These were the Anglo Saxons -> England, Alemanni -> Germany, Heruli (destroyed in 493AD), Vandals (destroyed in 534AD), Ostrogoths (destroyed in 538AD), Visigoths -> Spain, Suevi -> Portugal, Lombard’s -> Italy, Burgundians -> Swiss and Franks -> France.

As you see, Scripture does not reveal the meaning of all symbols, but by investigation and Grace and trough His Spirit, we could find the meaning of part of Revelation and Daniel.

 

[CWBetts]

We could use our knowledge and reason which God gave us trough the holy spirit to investigate and research the meanings of the symbols. From the prophecy itself we learn that “sea” means multitudes of people and that the “beasts” are kings of kingdoms; political powers, to be more accurate (we know that from what the angel reveals to Daniel and John). And using our wisdom, intelligence and cleverness we deduce for example that “horns/heads” are subdivisions of the political powers, that “wings” equal speed or swiftness, that “winds” mean war/strife, etc. The Scripture itself does not reveal that, but by investigating we discover that.

* The Lion - Babylon. Wings represent conquering speed.
* The Bear - Medo-Persia. One shoulder raised above the other represents the dominance of the Medes over the Persians. The three ribs represent the three kingdoms overthrown by this kingdom - Egypt, Lydia, and Babylon.
* The Leopard - Greece. Four wings represent conquering speed, which was quite great. The four heads clearly mean Alexander the Great’s four generals who ruled Greece after his death – Seleucus, Ptolemy, Lysimachus and Cassander. 
* The different beast - Rome. The ten horns - the divisions of Rome (like the toes in chapter 2) The ten horns are the 10 divisions of the Roman Empire when it fell apart. These were the Anglo Saxons -> England, Alemanni -> Germany, Heruli (destroyed in 493AD), Vandals (destroyed in 534AD), Ostrogoths (destroyed in 538AD), Visigoths -> Spain, Suevi -> Portugal, Lombard’s -> Italy, Burgundians -> Swiss and Franks -> France.

As you see, Scripture does not reveal the meaning of all symbols, but by investigation and Grace and trough His Spirit, we could find the meaning of part of Revelation and Daniel.

This was an easy one though. And you forgot that a winged lion was a common symbol of Babylon in non-biblical sources as well. In fact I would say you misinterpreted the whole speed thing for Babylon.