The reality of Muslim-Christian dialogue...

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…is that most of the effort comes from Christian nations. I read in the London Times yesterday that a major conference for Muslim-Christian dialogue that was due to be held in Malaysia has been cancelled by the Malaysian govt at two weeks notice, basically because some Muslims don’t think Christians are worthy of dialogue with. How genuine can dialogue be in those circumstances? It is noteworthy that these talks were started in the wake of 9/11.
We could not have dialogue on a Muslim forum - so it has be on a Christian forum, where even then the Muslims are allowed to be aggressive and superior. I don’t see what purpose that serves. Is Ham really here for dialogue, or any of the other Muslim trolls? NO. Does allowing them to post from Muslim apologist sites make them any more receptive to evangelism. I seriously doubt it.
I think that it is wrong to allow this, and that Catholics who come from areas where they threatened by one form of Muslim aggression/expansionism/Islamism will not feel comfortable with it.
 
Everyone on these boards are invited to participate at the Muslim forum that I usually frequent where God-willing, you will be able to engage in meaningful dialogue with and obtain a lot more info from many other Muslims there than from just the few Muslims here.

Over at that forum, you might find me to being a teeny weeny bit more “aggressive” towards Christianity than I am here… but that is to be expected I think.

For those interested, kindly register yourself at the following forum and ask all the questions on matters related to Islam that you wish… or even post stuff about the Catholic faith… and God-willing, it would be of mutual benefit to you and all the forum members there as well.:

whyislam.org/forum/default.asp
 
Well considering the way you refuse to enter meaningful dialogue here, I shudder to think what it’ll be like with you “a teeny bit more aggressive” (which sounds like an understatement if ever there was one), esp when you say it’s “understandable”. Sounds like code for beating up all Christian posters except possible converts to Islam to me!
 
I used to post a little on whyislam. At first, early in the board’s development, it was a pretty ‘free to speak’ forum. Since then it got progressively more restricted. For instance, I can’t even bring up the topic of gays and gay rights on the board anymore.
I think whyislam is quite censured these days… so why would I post there anymore? I especially would be censured if I cut and pasted stuff from a Christian apologetics website, like Ham does here.
The last time I posted anything on whyislam the moderator deleted it and sent me a pm chastising me for what I wrote. I don’t even remember what I posted, it’s been over a year, but I am pretty sure it wasn’t particularly controversial. I think I made a wry comment to someone else’s post.
hamba2han said:
Everyone on these boards are invited to participate at the Muslim forum that I usually frequent where God-willing, you will be able to engage in meaningful dialogue with and obtain a lot more info from many other Muslims there than from just the few Muslims here.

Over at that forum, you might find me to being a teeny weeny bit more “aggressive” towards Christianity than I am here… but that is to be expected I think.

For those interested, kindly register yourself at the following forum and ask all the questions on matters related to Islam that you wish… or even post stuff about the Catholic faith… and God-willing, it would be of mutual benefit to you and all the forum members there as well.:

whyislam.org/forum/default.asp
Click to expand...
 
There should be a dialogue.

But from a Christian point of view, it is difficult to watch Christianity being systematically expunged from all governmental and educational systems while Islam is being given new special accomodations in the name of tolerance.

Islam should be very thankful that Americans now see intolerance (whatever that is) as the unpardonable sin. Islam now has a fertile field in which to grow and remake America. Nature abhors a vacuum and Christianity has created one by refusing to be who we are called to be. Christians (demographically) are virtually indistinguishable from everyone else running in this materialistic rat race.

Yes, there should be dialogue. But I fear Islam has a very big agenda and it seems to involve the replacement of Christianity’s influence with one of their own. In this sense, the struggle for influence over American is indeed a zero-sum game in the end.

Contemporary “Christian” America is much more willing to accomodate Islam than Islam is apparently willing to accomodate Christianity. I wish someone would disabuse me of this notion. I’m willing to listen but I’m not optimistic.

In any event, dialogue is always good.
 
Yeah right, christians posting on an islamic board.
Been there, done that, and didnt even say anything controversial, and got banned.
The problem is, if they see the first sign of you sticking up for what you believe in, the only way they know how to deal with it is banning!
 
jack_hawkins said:
…is that most of the effort comes from Christian nations. I read in the London Times yesterday that a major conference for Muslim-Christian dialogue that was due to be held in Malaysia has been cancelled by the Malaysian govt at two weeks notice, basically because some Muslims don’t think Christians are worthy of dialogue with. How genuine can dialogue be in those circumstances? It is noteworthy that these talks were started in the wake of 9/11.
We could not have dialogue on a Muslim forum - so it has be on a Christian forum, where even then the Muslims are allowed to be aggressive and superior. I don’t see what purpose that serves. Is Ham really here for dialogue, or any of the other Muslim trolls? NO. Does allowing them to post from Muslim apologist sites make them any more receptive to evangelism. I seriously doubt it.
I think that it is wrong to allow this, and that Catholics who come from areas where they threatened by one form of Muslim aggression/expansionism/Islamism will not feel comfortable with it.
Click to expand...
That sounds like a typical Muslim response! After all, they’re “Allah’s” army and “Allah’s” government, and therefore superior to everyone else! :rolleyes: Reminds me of the Nazis!

See here:

  1. *]During an official meeting on Islamic-Christian dialogue, an authoritative Muslim person, speaking to the Christians participating, at one point said very calmly and assuredly: **“Thanks to your democratic laws we will invade you; thanks to your religious laws we will dominate you…” **
    *]During another Islamic-Christian meeting, always organized by Christians, a Christian participant publically asked the Muslims present why they had not organized at least one meeting of this kind. The Muslim authority present answered in the following words: “Why should we? You have nothing to teach us and we have nothing to learn.” A dialogue between deaf persons? It is a fact that terms such as “dialogue”, “justice”, “reciprocity”, or concepts such as “rights of man” and “democracy” have a completely different meaning for Muslims than for us. But I believe that by now this is recognized and admitted by all.
    How can there be any significant dialogue with people who think that way?

    Vickie

    P.S. Thanks, Montalban, for your help in linking! 🙂
 
I am willing to check out the Muslim forum Ham mentioned. I will see how it goes. My thoughts for a thread starter would be this:

How many of you here can never be my friend and how many of you wish me dead if I never go Islam?

I wonder if they will let me post that?
 
a_priori said:
There should be a dialogue.

But from a Christian point of view, it is difficult to watch Christianity being systematically expunged from all governmental and educational systems while Islam is being given new special accomodations in the name of tolerance.

Islam should be very thankful that Americans now see intolerance (whatever that is) as the unpardonable sin. Islam now has a fertile field in which to grow and remake America. Nature abhors a vacuum and Christianity has created one by refusing to be who we are called to be. Christians (demographically) are virtually indistinguishable from everyone else running in this materialistic rat race.

Yes, there should be dialogue. But I fear Islam has a very big agenda and it seems to involve the replacement of Christianity’s influence with one of their own. In this sense, the struggle for influence over American is indeed a zero-sum game in the end.

Contemporary “Christian” America is much more willing to accomodate Islam than Islam is apparently willing to accomodate Christianity. I wish someone would disabuse me of this notion. I’m willing to listen but I’m not optimistic.

In any event, dialogue is always good.
Click to expand...
I agree! Concessions to Islam are being made everywhere, like colleges and airports installing foot basins at taxpayers’ expense for Muslims to wash their feet before prayers, but you can’t even say “Merry Christmas” anymore or even give out Christmas cards

Let’s face it, they won’t integrate. Their way of life does not allow it. They’ll keep making more demands and if we don’t watch out, we’ll wake up one morning and find ourselves under the infamous sharia laws! :mad:

Vickie
 
Has anyone tried posting on whyislam since ham’s offer? What has been the response - was genuine dialogue possible?
 
I think everyone should understand that it’s a cultural thing that Muslims see the “understanding” given to them here as a sign of weakness, and they despise weakness - so allowing the spread of Muslim propaganda achieves nothing - and there is no prospect of reciprocity either for those reasons.
 
jack_hawkins said:
Has anyone tried posting on whyislam since ham’s offer? What has been the response - was genuine dialogue possible?
Click to expand...
I cant get registered yet for some reason. I was given a message that I would be sent a confirmation response, and I am still waiting. Maybe they are really busy now with Christians registering there.? I will try again.
 
Hellisreal said:
I cant get registered yet for some reason. I was given a message that I would be sent a confirmation response, and I am still waiting. Maybe they are really busy now with Christians registering there.? I will try again.
Click to expand...
ham’s probably warned them
 
jack_hawkins said:
ham’s probably warned them
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I got on as “abraham’s wife” and never get a post to show on the forum. I type it in, and it never shows up.

They must not have liked my name. Is she Hagar? or Sarah???

LOLOLOL
 
Hellisreal said:
I cant get registered yet for some reason. I was given a message that I would be sent a confirmation response, and I am still waiting. Maybe they are really busy now with Christians registering there.? I will try again.
Click to expand...
Hi
The same problem I confronted when I tried to register at a Catholic Forum 2/3 months ago. I have forgotten which one was it.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
The same problem I confronted when I tried to register at a Catholic Forum 2/3 months ago. I have forgotten which one was it.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
Click to expand...
Is this a fairly accurate description of Ahmadi?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadi

It would seem that Sunni and Shia would consider Ahmadi to be apostates. Would that be true?
 
BelFarfalla said:
Is this a fairly accurate description of Ahmadi?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadi
It would seem that Sunni and Shia would consider Ahmadi to be apostates. Would that be true?
Click to expand...
Hi
To some extent. But you may form your own accurate opinion by accessing :The Official Website of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
:alislam.org/
Please do access it.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
 
Booklover said:
See here:

  1. *]During an official meeting on Islamic-Christian dialogue, an authoritative Muslim person, speaking to the Christians participating, at one point said very calmly and assuredly: **“Thanks to your democratic laws we will invade you; thanks to your religious laws we will dominate you…” **
    *]During another Islamic-Christian meeting, always organized by Christians, a Christian participant publically asked the Muslims present why they had not organized at least one meeting of this kind. The Muslim authority present answered in the following words: “Why should we? You have nothing to teach us and we have nothing to learn.” A dialogue between deaf persons? It is a fact that terms such as “dialogue”, “justice”, “reciprocity”, or concepts such as “rights of man” and “democracy” have a completely different meaning for Muslims than for us. But I believe that by now this is recognized and admitted by all.
    How can there be any significant dialogue with people who think that way?
Click to expand...

  1. This 2nd point (“You have nothing to teach us…”) encapsulates well the observations of Bernard Lewis in his book “What went wrong”. As the title suggests, he tries to identify the reasons why the world of Islam has fallen from a place of prominence in such things as economics, the arts, science etc. Interestingly, and quite revealingly, he offers a number of accounts from the 16th-19th century from Europeans traveling through Muslim lands. In one such account, the traveller was astonished that no timekeeping devices (clocks) could be found anywhere. Even though Muslim traders were aware of these, it would take another two hundred years (or so) for the Muslim world to recognize their value and to use them widely. There are other examples as well. But the bottom line is that a certain attitude of “What can we learn from you (the West)?” is at work here.
 
This is a difficult issue. For Muslims who strictly interpret the Koran and the Hadith, taqiyya is an essential tool in the ‘struggle’. The use of taqiyya with kufar quashes any realistic hopes for open dialogue. More secular groups of the Islamic faith may respond and participate in such dialogue, but it’s difficult to spot taqiyya at times so such dialogues are not easy.

It is also difficult in an environment where, while places like the US, Britain, Australia, etc. openly accept and sometimes encourage the diversity that comes with the building of a new mosque, it is quite the opposite in the Islamic world. Christians are often persecuted in places such as Pakistan, Turkey, Iran and other countries. See this highway sign in Saudi Arabia as an example.

P.S. Good topic Jack.

-Graing
 
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